[at-l] Re: at-l MIOX????

[gypsy97 at bellsouth.net (gypsy97@bellsouth.net)]

My Pur filter conked out by the time I left Georgia, so I used iodine tabs
to purify the water.  The pkg I bought also contained tabs to get rid of the
iodine color and taste.  Later on, someone told me that the 2nd tabs were
simply ascorbic acid, or Vitamin C.  I bought a bottle of Vit. C and just
used a pinch in the water - it clears up before your eyes, and you don't
have the iodine taste.  If you overdo it with the Vit C, however, it tastes
a little citrusy.  It makes sense to drink only treated water while hiking,
although for people who go days without a shower, eat food which drops on
the ground or shelter floor, finds handwashing a bit difficult, etc., I
don't think we should get paranoid about what's in the water.  I never drank
untreated water on the trail, and I never got sick from the water.  I ran
out of iodine somewhere in VA, and asked a hotel maid to fill a small bottle
with chlorine bleach, which I used for a little while until I could get more
iodine.  They both work fine, in my opinion, and they are no doubt safer
than the water which flows out of most municipal taps.

gypsy
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <at-l-request@backcountry.net>
To: <at-l@backcountry.net>
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 1:00 PM
Subject: at-l Digest, Vol 10, Issue 24


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> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: [at-l]Anyone got a Sprin.. Er... Transcribing Itch?
>       (Jan Leitschuh)
>    2. Re: What is a "thruhiker"  (Bror8588@aol.com)
>    3. Re: NOT Follow Through On Global Warming (OT) (Shelly Hale)
>    4. Re: Wildcats Return to Adirondacks (Mark Hudson)
>    5. Re: [at-l]Anyone got a Sprin.. Er... Transcribing Itch?
>       (SBLoveDoves)
>    6. Re: Wildcats Return to Adirondacks (Jim Bullard)
>    7. Re: Follow Through On Global Warming (OT) (Steve Landis)
>    8. [ehhhh] (Sloetoe)
>    9. Re: NOT Follow Through On Global Warming (OT)
>       (GoVolsKelly@aol.com)
>   10. Re: OT Non-partisan politcal link (GoVolsKelly@aol.com)
>   11. Adventures in Igloo building...a trip report (Paul Magnanti)
>   12. Re: OT Non-partisan politcal link (GoVolsKelly@aol.com)
>   13. Hiking AND the political stuff  (Tim Rich)
>   14. RE: What is a "thruhiker" (Kelly Whitman)
>   15. Bringing the AT-L back online (Ryan Brooks)
>   16. Re[3]: [at-l] (OT) Global Climate Change (Frank Looper)
>   17. WebSite (Jim Bullard)
>   18. South Carolina Snow (Gadog430)
>   19. Re: South Carolina Snow (Jim Bullard)
>   20. A suggestion that Ryan create the OT-L (W F Thorneloe)
>   21. Re: A reading lesson - was Global Warming (OT) (Bob C.)
>   22. Monadnock anyone? (Coosa)
>   23. See ya! (GoVolsKelly@aol.com)
>   24. Trail Fest (PUDSCRAWLER@aol.com)
>   25. Re: A suggestion that Ryan create the OT-L (PUDSCRAWLER@aol.com)
>   26. RE: A suggestion that Ryan create the OT-L (Jim and/or Ginny Owen)
>   27. Re: MIOX???? (Dave Hicks)
>   28. Re: MIOX???? (Amy)
>   29. Trail Days Website is UP (Coosa)
>   30. Re: Starting dates (athummingbird@dnet.net)
>   31. Re: MIOX???? (Jim Bullard)
>   32. Re[2]: [at-l] MIOX???? (Bob C.)
>   33. Re[3]: [at-l] MIOX???? (Bob C.)
>   34. Re: MIOX???? (W F Thorneloe)
>   35. Re: WebSite (Marsha)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 10:57:29 -0500
> From: Jan Leitschuh <janl2@mindspring.com>
> Subject: Re: [at-l]Anyone got a Sprin.. Er... Transcribing Itch?
> To: sblovedoves@bellsouth.net, hiker@tempestdream.com,
> at-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> Message-ID: <403CC5E9.B3AB653E@mindspring.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
>
>
> Re: transcribing:
> Consider being a co-transcriber, and sharing the load.
>
> I'm transcribing for an '04, and also planning to hike the JMT this
> fall so knowing someone else is there to pick up the slack is a Good
> Thing, Martha. A win-win for all. I'm also back-up for the other
> transcriber when she travels.
>
> I'm on digest lately, so forgive if this has already been mentioned.
>
> Co-Transcribing Shoe
>
> > I might be able to help.  E-mail me off-list and maybe we can work
> > something
> > out.  (I think it would be fun & exciting to help, but I'm not sure
> > whether
> > I could always get things onto the trail journals website quickly
> > enough for
> > you.  Sometimes I have other things that get in the way of fun &
> > exciting
> > stuff...
> >
> > Cheryl / Swamp Blar
>
> -- 
> ========================================
>     AT Journal:
> http://www.trailjournals.com/Liteshoe/
> Jan Leitschuh Sporthorses Ltd.
> http://www.mindspring.com/~janl2/index.html
>
> ========================================
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 10:58:34 EST
> From: Bror8588@aol.com
> Subject: Re: [at-l] What is a "thruhiker"
> To: spiriteagle99@hotmail.com, at-l@backcountry.net
> Message-ID: <30.50fa6a9a.2d6e202a@aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> Thanks for including this information.  I can't wait to hit the trail!
>
> Skylander
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 11:28:16 -0500
> From: "Shelly Hale" <shellydhale@earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: [at-l] NOT Follow Through On Global Warming (OT)
> To: "Jim and/or Ginny Owen" <spiriteagle99@hotmail.com>,
> <at-l@backcountry.net>
> Cc: GoVolsKelly@aol.com
> Message-ID: <007301c3fbbc$60a2a0c0$459650d8@computer>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
>
> What's this about Kelly having a book?  One that she wrote?  And, she
didn't
> tell ME about it?  Sheesh...and all that support for her as an author when
> she already was one....
>
> OK, Kel, where do I get a copy?  LOL
>
> Shelly Hale
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 11:10:06 -0500
> From: Mark Hudson <hudsom@us.ibm.com>
> Subject: Re: [at-l] Wildcats Return to Adirondacks
> To: Jim Bullard <jbullar1@twcny.rr.com>
> Cc: at-l@backcountry.net
> Message-ID:
> <OF87FEE20C.680835B8-ON85256E45.00578ECD-85256E45.0058D0DD@us.ibm.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>
>
>
>
>
> <<That side of Colden is very steep and the once the route
> leaves the Dike it goes up open rock face the rest of the way to the
> summit. When standing on that side of the summit you have an unobstructed
> view straight down to the lake, no trees, no brush, just steep open rock
> with shear cliff at the bottom.>>
>
> Actually, there's a variation on this route. Barbara McMartin (now
retired)
> wrote many of the Adirondack guidebooks. When Barbara says a hike is "X
> hours and Y minutes" to a certain point, she's talking about hiking, and
> she hikes fast. So stopping for water, gorp, a picture, or to enjoy the
> view is NOT included in her hiking time.
> In climbing the trap dike the guidebook said to turn and climb out on to
> the slide at the 45 minute point. At the 30 minute point I came to a spot
> in the slide that looked remarkably like the description of where you want
> to turn on to the slide. Because you do NOT want to climb out on the slide
> too early due to it's steepness, and the fact that this point was 15
> minutes ahead of where she said to turn, I kept going straight. At the 45
> minute point, after bushwacking through spruce, I was standing on the
> summit ridge on marked trail about 5 minutes north of the summit, having
> followed the dike all the way up. Closer inspection of the guidebook
> revealed that it was EDITTED by Barbara McMartin, and that particular
climb
> desription was written by someone obviously much slower than her. The turn
> I saw was the correct one. The advantage to staying in the dike at that
> point is that it's nearly impossible to fall out of a spruce thicket <g>.
> Jim, you'd just love the crux move! What kept me going there was that the
> though that downclimbing from that point would have been even worse than
> pushing the crux move <g>.
>
> skeeter
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 11:37:27 -0500
> From: "SBLoveDoves" <sblovedoves@bellsouth.net>
> Subject: Re: [at-l]Anyone got a Sprin.. Er... Transcribing Itch?
> To: "Jan Leitschuh" <janl2@mindspring.com>, <hiker@tempestdream.com>,
> "Teresa" <WenchAT03@comcast.net>
> Cc: at-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> Message-ID: <001001c3fbbd$ada4b830$6101a8c0@rich2jjly9ponb>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Thanks for the advice, Jan!  :-)
>
> At this point in time, Wench has contacted me (and Hoplite) with an offer
be
> a "back-up" (or co-transcriber).  So, I think that Hoplite has an awesome
> team of transcribers willing to help him! :-)
>
> We're just waiting to hear back from Hoplite now.  I can't imagine what
> could be keeping him away from his e-mail...He's just preparing for a
> thru-hike of the AT! ;-)
>
> Cheryl / Swamp Blar
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Jan Leitschuh" <janl2@mindspring.com>
> To: <sblovedoves@bellsouth.net>; <hiker@tempestdream.com>;
> <at-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2004 10:57 AM
> Subject: Re: [at-l]Anyone got a Sprin.. Er... Transcribing Itch?
>
>
> >
> >
> > Re: transcribing:
> > Consider being a co-transcriber, and sharing the load.
> >
> > I'm transcribing for an '04, and also planning to hike the JMT this
> > fall so knowing someone else is there to pick up the slack is a Good
> > Thing, Martha. A win-win for all. I'm also back-up for the other
> > transcriber when she travels.
> >
> > I'm on digest lately, so forgive if this has already been mentioned.
> >
> > Co-Transcribing Shoe
> >
> > > I might be able to help.  E-mail me off-list and maybe we can work
> > > something
> > > out.  (I think it would be fun & exciting to help, but I'm not sure
> > > whether
> > > I could always get things onto the trail journals website quickly
> > > enough for
> > > you.  Sometimes I have other things that get in the way of fun &
> > > exciting
> > > stuff...
> > >
> > > Cheryl / Swamp Blar
> >
> > -- 
> > ========================================
> >     AT Journal:
> > http://www.trailjournals.com/Liteshoe/
> > Jan Leitschuh Sporthorses Ltd.
> > http://www.mindspring.com/~janl2/index.html
> >
> > ========================================
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > at-l mailing list
> > at-l@backcountry.net
> > http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/at-l
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 11:34:02 -0500
> From: Jim Bullard <jbullar1@twcny.rr.com>
> Subject: Re: [at-l] Wildcats Return to Adirondacks
> To: Mark Hudson <hudsom@us.ibm.com>
> Cc: at-l@backcountry.net
> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20040225112655.02b310c0@pop-server>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
>
> The "editted" comment is very important to note on Barbara McMartin's
> Guidebook series. She got the descriptions and hiking times from various
> people and as we all know, individual hiking speed can vary widely. I did
> some of the hikes in 2/3 or less of the time listed, others took me
> considerably longer than the listed time because I was faster than some of
> the authors and slower than others. When I was climbing the 46 High Peaks
I
> quickly learned to disregard the times she listed since, until I had
> completed the hike, I had no way of knowing whether the original author
was
> faster or slower than me.
>
> At 11:10 AM 2/25/2004 -0500, Mark Hudson wrote:
>
> ><<That side of Colden is very steep and the once the route
> >leaves the Dike it goes up open rock face the rest of the way to the
> >summit. When standing on that side of the summit you have an unobstructed
> >view straight down to the lake, no trees, no brush, just steep open rock
> >with shear cliff at the bottom.>>
> >
> >Actually, there's a variation on this route. Barbara McMartin (now
retired)
> >wrote many of the Adirondack guidebooks. When Barbara says a hike is "X
> >hours and Y minutes" to a certain point, she's talking about hiking, and
> >she hikes fast. So stopping for water, gorp, a picture, or to enjoy the
> >view is NOT included in her hiking time.
> >In climbing the trap dike the guidebook said to turn and climb out on to
> >the slide at the 45 minute point. At the 30 minute point I came to a spot
> >in the slide that looked remarkably like the description of where you
want
> >to turn on to the slide. Because you do NOT want to climb out on the
slide
> >too early due to it's steepness, and the fact that this point was 15
> >minutes ahead of where she said to turn, I kept going straight. At the 45
> >minute point, after bushwacking through spruce, I was standing on the
> >summit ridge on marked trail about 5 minutes north of the summit, having
> >followed the dike all the way up. Closer inspection of the guidebook
> >revealed that it was EDITTED by Barbara McMartin, and that particular
climb
> >desription was written by someone obviously much slower than her. The
turn
> >I saw was the correct one. The advantage to staying in the dike at that
> >point is that it's nearly impossible to fall out of a spruce thicket <g>.
> >Jim, you'd just love the crux move! What kept me going there was that the
> >though that downclimbing from that point would have been even worse than
> >pushing the crux move <g>.
> >
> >skeeter
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 11:40:10 -0500
> From: Steve Landis <s.landis@comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: [at-l] Follow Through On Global Warming (OT)
> To: AT-L <at-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
> Message-ID: <403CCFEA.1060605@comcast.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
>
> On 2/25/2004 12:02 AM, Jim and/or Ginny Owen wrote:
> > Weary wrote:
> >
> >> Well, they seem to have warranted investigation by a Pentagon think
tank.
> >
> >
> > Well, duh - what do you think we've all been saying?  But only a couple
> > of us seemed to realize that it's a form of speculative brainstorming -
> > not the immensely big deal that you'd like it to be.
>
> The article was just a summary of the report.  I believe you can view
> the entire report here.
>
> http://www.ems.org/climate/pentagon_climate_change.pdf
>
> It would be much more productive to discuss the contents of the primary
> source than an article based on it.  You all can discuss, I'm not
> entered in the "smartest guy in the virtual room contest" ; )
>
> Steve
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 09:19:34 -0800 (PST)
> From: Sloetoe <sloetoe@yahoo.com>
> Subject: [at-l] [ehhhh]
> To: at-l@backcountry.net
> Message-ID: <20040225171934.2719.qmail@web20605.mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> > Nor have I ever said that [global] warming is a "myth."
> ### Funny how that just keeps coming up.
>
> > But I have definitely said that it's overrated,
> over-politicized and misunderstood even - or maybe especially -
> by it's most ardent advocates.  They have too much of a stake in
> "selling" it ...
> ### Dang, Jim! Now you're sounding -- dare I say it? --
> reasonable. Next thing you know, you're going to post as how
> you'd thunk that all up while out walking, watching the early
> migrating birds return, double-poling up the trail cuz you were
> tired....
>
> (I'm going to turn my consistency meter off.)
> Orwelltoe
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want.
> http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 12:48:53 EST
> From: GoVolsKelly@aol.com
> Subject: Re: [at-l] NOT Follow Through On Global Warming (OT)
> To: AT-L@backcountry.net
> Message-ID: <1ed.19ea4c82.2d6e3a05@aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> Noooo!  Kelly Winters.  I'm Kelly Sue GOINS GoVols!
>
> Kelly Sue Goins GoVols
>
> In a message dated 2/25/2004 11:12:40 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> shellydhale@earthlink.net writes:
> OK, Kel, where do I get a copy?  LOL
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 12:51:37 EST
> From: GoVolsKelly@aol.com
> Subject: Re: [at-l] OT Non-partisan politcal link
> To: at-l@backcountry.net
> Message-ID: <4c.2899f28b.2d6e3aa9@aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> I'd much rather have dinner with Jesus... Or Johnny Depp......  Nah,
forget
> Johnny.  I can think of better things to do with Johnny than have dinner.
>
> GoVols
>
> In a message dated 2/24/2004 7:49:49 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> jbryankramer@msn.com writes:
> Dinner with Stalin would be like a meal with a saber-tooth
tiger...exciting
> but possibly final.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 09:52:24 -0800 (PST)
> From: Paul Magnanti <pmags@yahoo.com>
> Subject: [at-l] Adventures in Igloo building...a trip report
> To: at-l@backcountry.net
> Message-ID: <20040225175224.43877.qmail@web13903.mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> As mentioned Monday, I spent my weekend winter
> backpacking. Winter backpacking is a bit different
> than the three season backpacking most of us do.
>
> (Well those who spend their weekends outside rather
> than look up arcane data that may or not be accurate
> then post it to a HIKING LIST..ahem. I think if I take
> a PoliSci course at the local college I am going to
> discuss Gortex vs. Frog Toggs, White gas stoves vs.
> Alcohol stoves and then sneakers vs. hiking boots.
> Will submit a paper on it too. Global warming is one
> thing...but which side of the political spectrum is
> more intelligent? Sheesh...***Rant off***)
>
> The gear is bulkier, heavier and there is more of it.
> Daylight is shorter. It is colder.
>
> But, the views are beautiful. Crisp white snow, jagged
> peaks piercing the sky. The cold is invigorating,
> making everything seem so much vivid.
>
> To quote the late, great comic strip Calvin and
> Hobbes:
>
> "The world looks brand-new," said Hobbes.
> "A New Year ... a fresh clean start," said Calvin.
> "It's like having a big white sheet of paper to draw
> on," said Hobbes.
> "A day full of possibilities," said Calvin.
> "It's a magical world, Hobbes old buddy ... let's go
> exploring."
>
> An exploring the winter landscape I did.
>
> Loaded up my large winter pack, strapped on two
> sleeping pads, packed in my -20F bag, placed on the
> outside a snow shovel and a carpenter's saw, packed in
> fleece pants, a down jacket and exp. wt. polypro and
> made sure my Whisperlite was working the night before.
> Loaded up some fattening  food and made sure I had an
> empty Gatorade bottle for night time use.
>
> The alarm went off at 6AM on a Saturday.  Crawled out
> of bed, slipped into my long underwear and did the
> last minute prep work that always seems to happen with
> winter trips. Made it to the RSVP point where I loaded
> up with my caffeine fix and met the three other people
> who wished to build an igloo in winter.
>
> The cast of experienced characters included Rom (who
> has spent many, many trips in the back country for
> winter), Mark (haven't seem him since his wedding
> reception on New Year's Eve...he is a Colorado
> Mountain Club instructor for mountaineering!), Debbie
> (Buttercup of AT '03!...new to Boulder and quite happy
> to meet some like minded people when it comes to the
> outdoors) and myself. All in all, felt quite
> comfortable with the ability of everyone on this trip.
>
> Drove up to Brainard Lake trail head, elev 10k feet.
> This trail head is the playground for many people in
> Boulder...esp during winter! Even at this early in the
> morning, the winter trail head was filling up. No
> matter..as with many popular back country areas, the
> further you go in, the less populated the trail.
>
> We all threw on our heavy winter packs and made our
> way up the "trail" (a road that is closed during the
> winter) on snowshoes or tele skis. The weather was
> partly cloudy, but oh so nice.  Three miles later, we
> reached a turn off and walked a short way into the
> woods and went to the Brainard Lake cabin. This CMC
> run cabin is mainly for day use. Had a wood stove, hot
> drinks and tables to sit in for winter travelers. Even
> has propane stoves.  Small, cozy, no frills. The
> princely sum of $1 for day use that includes hot
> drinks. If you are lucky enough to get an invite for
> staying over night, it is $15/ night for non-CMC
> members ($8 for CMC members). The *AMC* could learn
> something here....
>
> Anyway, it was nice and cozy as mentioned. Had a large
> lunch, sat by the wood stove with some mocha, and the
> four of us did not want to move!
>
> But we did. Strapped on our packs and made our way up
> to Mitchell Lake where the trail was unbroken. We
> swapped off breaking trail (hard work, esp. with
> winter packs) and made our way to Mitchell Lake.
>
> This lake is at about 11,000 feet. During the summer,
> it is an easy, gentle, one-mile stroll with beautiful
> scenery. Consequently, it is VERY busy from all the
> people who want to see an easy, gentle, one mile
> stroll with beautiful scenery. During the winter? Just
> four of us breaking trail with heavy packs.
>
> The view from the frozen lake was beautiful. The
> Divide was seen with clouds hanging over them. Fresh
> snow every where. Fresh powder called out to Mark and
> Rom on their tele skis.... But we had a shelter to
> make!
>
> On this trip, we were going to make an igloo. A good
> snow cave is fairly easy to make. Find a drift, dig an
> entrance way, dig up a little bit for a sleeping
> platform. Hollow out. 1-2 hrs later you have a shelter
> that is warm and cozy.
>
> An igloo is considerably more work as we found out.
>
> First, we had to find a snow drift to dig our
> "sub-basement". Then we had to find another drift of
> hard snow for our "quarry".
>
> Rom and Mark started to dig into one drift, Debbie and
> I made our snow blocks.
>
> The "sub-basement" was about 2-3 feet deep. We then
> placed our blocks up about 3-4 feet in a spiral. Five
> hours later (!) the basic structure of the igloo was
> intact. Must say it looked quite nice. One hour later,
> we did our finish work: chinked the gaps with snow,
> widened our entrance way a bit, finished the cold trap
> (sunken entrance way below the sleeping platform). As
> an igloo that sleeps 2-3 people takes approx 4-5 hrs,
> seems the time frame was correct for an igloo that
> slept four people.
>
> We placed our packs inside. Poked our saws into the
> igloo  for candle platforms and started up my
> Whisperlite and melted snow for water. We were HUNGRY
> and wanted some hot drinks. Poked a hole in the igloo
> near the stove for ventilation.  After eating much
> food and making some hot drinks, we rolled out our
> pads and sleeping bags. Changed into dry long
> underwear. Plugged the entrance way with our packs.
> Lit some more candles and felt snug and warm. It was
> amazing how warm the igloo became with four people
> inside. Unzipped my bag quite a bit, and slept into
> the night.
>
> Woke up, lounged around quite a bit (did I mention it
> was cozy and warm in the igloo?), and finally made our
> way for some back country exploring.  Made our way
> back to the car and home. Put out my ground tarp and
> sleeping bag to dry a bit (it is also very humid in an
> igloo or snow cave!) and took a hot shower and
> promptly feel into a deep sleep. :-)
>
> Igloo making was an adventure to say the least. Hard
> work (all that digging and moving of heavy snow
> blocks!), time consuming..but something glad to have
> done. Winter is beautiful...but next time I will build
> a snow cave. Easier to make. :D
>
> Actually, NEXT weekend, I am lucky enough to spend it
> in the hut. Convinced Beth that a hut stay will be
> quite nice. Wood stove, yummy food, comfy couches and
> a full moon on a Winter's night. For some reason a
> woman raised in South Carolina and Florida, who has
> never backpacked, did not find the idea of hauling
> heavy winter equipment and spending the night in
> negative temperatures while being surrounded by snow
> too appealing. :-)
>
> The gallery is having some issues. Once those issues
> are fixed, will upload my pics.
>
> Mags
>
>
>
> =====
> ************************************************************
> The true harvest of my life is intangible.... a little stardust caught, a
portion of the rainbow I have clutched
> --Thoreau
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 12:53:16 EST
> From: GoVolsKelly@aol.com
> Subject: Re: [at-l] OT Non-partisan politcal link
> To: AT-L@backcountry.net
> Message-ID: <12c.3c229dcb.2d6e3b0c@aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> I'm sorry, but I can't help but think of the time when Rush was on TV and
I
> saw all those conservatives golf clapping away at all the things Rush
pieced
> together so something came out to his liking.  What do they call them?
Ditto
> Heads?  ROFL!  Like little puppies, those Ditto Heads.
>
> At lease Liberals have the ability to think for themselves.
>
> Oh yeah, and Liberals should be capitalized and you misspelled polls.
>
> GoVols
>
> In a message dated 2/24/2004 7:47:13 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> jbryankramer@msn.com writes:
> All objective measures show that conservatives are more educated, score
> higher in standardized tests and are generally more intelligent than
> liberals. In this country anyway. Even democrat pols admit it. So all this
> liberal chest-beating about how smart they 'think' they are has a certain
> Aesopian flavor.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 13
> Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 10:27:41 -0800 (PST)
> From: Tim Rich <athiker89@yahoo.com>
> Subject: [at-l] Hiking AND the political stuff
> To: at-l@backcountry.net
> Message-ID: <20040225182741.59044.qmail@web80810.mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Greetings,
>
> I've been in lurker digest mode for a while, and I've purposely stayed
away from the political threads. I'd like to thank Ryan for the list, and
his patience. Over the last eight and one-half years, I've gained a ton of
knowledge from the list.  On topic, I've learned much about hiking, trail
and town specific information, and I've been able to hook up with listers to
receive and provide shuttles in my and their section hikes.  I've enjoyed
the list immensely, and I'm now 220 miles from completing my section hiking
goal.  If all goes well, I'm two trips from Katahdin.
>
> My experience here is that no one is swayed by arguments on these
off-topic debates.  They're the AT-L equivalent of rough horseplay -
everybody has a good time until someone gets hurt or breaks something.  Then
Mom or Dad cleans house.  I'm grateful we have a permissive "parent" in
Ryan, and that he's not heavy handed.
>
> That being said, I'll toss in my view that two recent statements by Steve
and Bryan are both correct.  Bryan's statement, "All objective measures show
that conservatives are more educated, score higher in standardized tests and
are generally more intelligent than liberals. In this country anyway. Even
democrat pols admit it." is correct.
>
> Steve's contention that "Democrats have a much higher number of people
with graduate degrees than do Republicans." is correct. For example, many
liberals gravitate toward teaching, a field that is awash with graduate
degrees. That field is only a subset of the liberal/democrat constituency,
though, and does nothing to disprove Bryan's point. If you begin to add
other democrat core constituencies (blue collar union workers, for example),
the *general* education level would drop rather quickly.
>
> Also, I believe "pols" is short for politicians.  And liberals can be
capitalized, or not.  Now, "lease liberals" is a new term for me - I always
thought they were bought, not leased. :)
>
> Take Care,
>
> Tim
>
> http://www.townhall.com/columnists/thomassowell/ts20040225.shtml
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharingFrom ryan@hack.net  Wed
Feb 25 13:10:44 2004
> Return-Path: <ryan@hack.net>
> X-Original-To: at-l@edina.hack.net
> Delivered-To: at-l@edina.hack.net
> Received: from hack.net (unknown [10.1.1.15])
> by edina.hack.net (Postfix) with ESMTP
> id 440433C2E5; Wed, 25 Feb 2004 13:10:44 -0600 (CST)
> Message-ID: <403CF1E8.9070102@hack.net>
> Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 13:05:12 -0600
> From: Ryan Brooks <ryan@hack.net>
> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US;
> rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113
> X-Accept-Language: en-us, en
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> To: at-l@edina.hack.net, pct-l@edina.hack.net
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Cc:
> Subject: [at-l] Lists going down
> X-BeenThere: at-l@backcountry.net
> X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2
> Precedence: list
> List-Id: The Appalachian Trail mailing list  <at-l.backcountry.net>
> List-Unsubscribe: <http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/at-l>,
> <mailto:at-l-request@backcountry.net?subject=unsubscribe>
> List-Archive: <http://mailman.hack.net/pipermail/at-l>
> List-Post: <mailto:at-l@backcountry.net>
> List-Help: <mailto:at-l-request@backcountry.net?subject=help>
> List-Subscribe: <http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/at-l>,
> <mailto:at-l-request@backcountry.net?subject=subscribe>
>
> For server work.    Emails will bounce until they return.
>
> -Ryan
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 14
> Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 11:12:06 -0800
> From: "Kelly Whitman" <kellyswhitman@hotmail.com>
> Subject: RE: [at-l] What is a "thruhiker"
> To: at-l@backcountry.net
> Message-ID: <LAW9-F100myoZF9byAB00007967@hotmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
>
> I often wonder which other MBTI types are attracted to long distance
hiking.
>   My guess is they're mostly Is.  I can't imagine a strong E would spend
> much time alone in the wilderness away from all of their people
connections.
>   I've heard of Is testing out as Es after a thruhike, though,
> interestingly.
>
> I'll be trying to guess what the people I meet are when I'm on the trail,
> but then I do that all the time, anyway.  :)
>
> Kelly Whitman
> iN*TP*
> -----------
> "There ARE no other women like me."  -- 7 of 9
>
> >At one time during our CDT trek, the question was raised - What kind of
> >person does this kind of thing (meaning thruhiking - spending 6 months or
> >so in the mountains)? So I thought about it for a while - and I thought
> >about all the people I know who have or are or want to thruhike one long
> >trail or another.  I thought about who and what they are. Not about their
> >occupation or their ancestry or their political orientation or where they
> >live.  Those things are externals.  Rather, I thought about the
> >personalities and the characteristics that could be used to describe
> >those people.  And then I wrote what I thought.
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Store more e-mails with MSN Hotmail Extra Storage - 4 plans to choose
from!
> http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200362ave/direct/01/
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 15
> Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 00:16:44 -0600
> From: Ryan Brooks <ryan@hack.net>
> Subject: [at-l] Bringing the AT-L back online
> To: at-l@edina.hack.net
> Message-ID: <403D8F4C.8060500@hack.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
>
> -R
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 16
> Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 01:39:29 -0500
> From: "Frank Looper" <mapster@charter.net>
> Subject: Re[3]: [at-l] (OT) Global Climate Change
> To: "AT-L" <at-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
> Message-ID: <001801c3fc33$4905bbb0$0a02a8c0@floopsbook>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> > Even I have to draw the line somewhere and second law debates on the ATL
> is
> > one such line. I'm not a creationist but I am believer in guided
> evolution.
> >
> > Bryan
> >
> Hey, no hard feelings either way.
>
> :-)
> Frank
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 17
> Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 08:58:25 -0500
> From: Jim Bullard <jbullar1@twcny.rr.com>
> Subject: [at-l] WebSite
> To: AT-L@backcountry.net
> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20040226085050.02033338@pop-server>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
>
> Here's a link to a web site that has videos of interest to hikers
> <http://tinyurl.com/2yw3m> including the Long Trail which features Bleeder
> Guy and has shots of another hikers wearing An ALDHA tee shirt. The 45
> videos, from PBS stations, cover trails all across the country. WARNING!
> They may not be usable if you are on dial-up. I had downloading pauses on
> cable.
>
> Saunterer
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 18
> Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 08:59:53 -0500
> From: "Gadog430" <gadog430@charter.net>
> Subject: [at-l] South Carolina Snow
> To: "The List" <at-l@backcountry.net>
> Message-ID: <003701c3fc70$cf86cac0$1f409e18@Fred>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> I woke up this morning about 7:00 a.m. to a dusting on some parts, and now
we have
> about 2-3 inches.
YAHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
>
> Snow Dawg...Again
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 19
> Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 09:15:17 -0500
> From: Jim Bullard <jbullar1@twcny.rr.com>
> Subject: Re: [at-l] South Carolina Snow
> To: Gadog430 <gadog430@charter.net>, The List <at-l@backcountry.net>
> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20040226090830.0203a650@pop-server>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed
>
> At 08:59 AM 2/26/2004 -0500, Gadog430 wrote:
> >I woke up this morning about 7:00 a.m. to a dusting on some parts, and
now
> >we have
> >about 2-3 inches.
> >YAHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
> >
> >Snow Dawg...Again
>
> Hummph! I've had the damned stuff for months and it was -6? here again
this
> morning. Now it's a whopping 12?. I suppose if you don't see it much it's
> fun but you are welcome to it. I'm ready for spring. Unfortunately that is
> several weeks away in NNY.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 20
> Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 09:30:24 -0500
> From: W F Thorneloe <thornel@attglobal.net>
> Subject: [at-l] A suggestion that Ryan create the OT-L
> To: at-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040226085605.02a2aec0@localhost>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
>
> This past month has been quite a display. "OT" has become a shield to
> defend vitriol and diatribe. Few have willingly participated, and some
have
> tried to counsel for moderation and topicality.
>
> However, a great few have enjoyed this logorrhea of planetary thermal
> changes, Newton's Laws, partisan politics, Darwin's theories, and other
> terribly vital topics. A pittance have tried to talk trail, even to the
> point of references to mountains in Upstate NY or Colorado. We are in
> February, with the only sustained gear question was how to stash denatured
> alcohol (I like discarded rubbing alcohol bottles and medicine bottles).
>
> This is no longer a hiking list. It once was exclusively a hiking list.
> This list once spilled bile over umbrellas, trekking poles, guns and other
> self defense, gear colors and personality assassinations of trail
characters.
>
> We have moved far beyond that.
>
> Ryan, congratulations on your work to upgrade the servers and to deal with
> a variety of delivery problems. I think you need to reconsider the task
> that has fallen on you. The "market" has spoken that hiking is not a
> particularly valued pastime for the heavy users of this list. I wish you
> could figure out how to turn a buck on this new creation, as it appears
> little different from some of the B&D/SM sites found elsewhere, only the
> language is tamer while still shameless. There are no amateurs among this
> crowd.
>
> I'd like to suggest the formation of the OT-L, to allow those few hiking
> aficionados to have the chance to post to a Backcountry.Net site. I even
> hesitate to post this note to the list, for fear of getting associated
with
> these threads.
>
> OrangeBug
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 21
> Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 09:28:25 -0500
> From: "Bob C." <ellen@clinic.net>
> Subject: Re: [at-l] A reading lesson - was Global Warming (OT)
> To: "Jim and/or Ginny Owen" <spiriteagle99@hotmail.com>
> Cc: s.landis@comcast.net, at-l@backcountry.net
> Message-ID: <8510782833.20040226092825@clinic.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> >"...>I've got pictures of the Canadian glaciers that show exactly this
effect.
> >I'll email them (privately) on request.  It took me less than 30 seconds
of
> >viewing those glaciers last summer to determine the answer to all the
"glacier"
> >questions that Roks has thrown out here  over the last couple  years. I
said
> >nothing whatever about warming there.  I said that the answer to Roks'
> >questions about why the glaciers were melting was obvious to anyone who
> >actually looked at the physical conditions "on the ground" and understood
the
> >meaning of "albedo."
>
> My apologies Jim. I thought you were talking about global warming. Instead
you
> were just saying that "in less than 30 seconds" of personal observation
you were
> able to determine that the glacial melting that scientists think is
probably
> caused by global warming is caused by sun reflections, or perhaps some
other
> albedo phenomenon.
>
> I'll try to be more attentive in the future. Usually, I do follow the
global
> warming debate quite closely. My house sits about 8 feet above mean sea
level
> and about 3 feet higher than the highest spring tides. There's nothing
quite
> like having 95% of ones assets at risk from a phenomenon scientists are
debating
> to make one pay attention.
>
> Weary
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 22
> Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 09:47:16 -0500
> From: "Coosa" <lorac4491@linkamerica.net>
> Subject: [at-l] Monadnock anyone?
> To: "AT-L" <at-l@backcountry.net>
> Message-ID:
> <a79caece9fd64dc395f95f9dc348c81e.lorac4491@linkamerica.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>
>
http://www.ctnow.com/entertainment/attractions/hc-daytrek0226.artfeb26,1,379728.story?coll=hc-headlines-entertainment-top
>
> A Peak For All
>  Easy-to-climb Mount Monadnock Offers Great Views
>
> February 26, 2004
> By STEVE GRANT, The Hartford Courant
>
> Benton MacKaye, the visionary planner best known as the guy who came up
with the idea for the Appalachian Trail, knew his mountains. And he
considered Mount Monadnock in southwestern New Hampshire to be much more
than a nice peak rising all by its lonesome.
>
> The summit of Monadnock, he said, was an ideally situated vantage point, a
craggy eminence that held New England together in spirit.
>
> "It is the Fujiyama of New England," he wrote in "The New Exploration,"
his call for a sensible land use ethic. "It stands forth in simple solitary
majesty, the emblem of a unified homeland, and functions for a natural
region as the scepter functions for a royal state."
>
> >From the 3,165-foot summit, he explained, all six New England states can
be seen. It may be the only New England summit from which that claim can be
made, though even on Monadnock you'll need an especially clear day and a
knack for geography if you want to check off six states.
>
> While the mountain offers grand views in all directions, it is nowhere
near the biggest peak in New England. What is more important is that
Monadnock is not only well situated, it happens to be just the right size, a
mountain made for the masses. Monadnock is not only worth doing, it is
doable.
>
> It requires no technical climbing equipment, though crampons are strongly
recommended in winter, and most reasonably fit people, young and old, can
make it up and down in four or five hours. You can take an eager 9-year-old
up Monadnock and not regret it. You can't always say that about Mount
Washington or Mount Katahdin, New England's biggies.
>
> Monadnock is just high enough and just difficult enough that for many
people it is adventure, an achievement, something worth boasting about. It
is not so big, though, that you have to spend the next few days in pain.
>
> On a summer day especially, you'll see vacationers trudging up the
mountain in sneakers and sandals, thrilled when they get to the top. It is
probably safe to assume that Monadnock has created more than a few new
serious hikers.
>
> More than 100,000 people showed up at the mountain last year, so you
should expect company there.
>
> In fact, go anywhere near the mountain and you will hear that it is the
second most climbed mountain in the world, after Fuji. That is the kind of
unverifiable claim that a journalist ought to be skeptical of, but who
knows? Maybe it is only the 10th most popular mountain in the world, maybe
it is number one. But day in, day out, there are people on this mountain,
hundreds of them on a Sunday in September.
>
> Even in winter Monadnock is surprisingly popular, and a sure tonic for
cabin fever. Andrew Zboray, the Monadnock State Park manager, estimates that
with decent weather 150 people climb the mountain on a typical weekend day
in winter.
>
> It was a cold morning, about 15 degrees, with gusty winds, when a friend
of mine, Dan Edson, and I arrived one day this month. I'd climbed the
mountain twice before, but only in warm weather. I had snowshoes along,
assuming I might need them. But I discovered that the trails are so tramped,
even in winter, that snowshoes are not often needed. At exposed upper
elevations, the wind scours the snow away.
>
> A pair of hiking boots, gaiters and a hiking staff - or cross-country ski
poles - are the preferred winter getup. Crampons sure are clunky, but
strongly recommended. I used them in the exposed rock areas near the summit,
which were icy, as they often are, and they helped. Most of the Monadnock
regulars use crampons in winter.
>
> Monadnock is laced with 37 trails totaling 37 miles, not surprising for a
mountain that has been drawing hikers for two centuries. Henry David Thoreau
and Ralph Waldo Emerson climbed Monadnock. Thoreau did it four times. Just
last year several members of the Thoreau Society, drawing from fragmentary
references, including some in Thoreau's journal, pinned down the locations
of one of his campsites. It's on the southeast side.
>
> We hiked the white cross trail on the way up, and the white dot trail on
the way down. The white cross is slightly longer, and slightly less steep.
The white dot, while steeper, is the shortest route to the top, and by far
the most popular trail.
>
> If you want a little more elbow room, check the trail map for one of the
other trails. There are some on the other side of the mountain that are far
less busy.
>
> Despite the blustery cold, within a half-hour we found ourselves sweating
and peeling off a layer of clothing. On a beautiful summer day the mountain
gods may look the other way on hiker carelessness, but in winter you dress
appropriately, lots of layers, and keep an eye on the weather.
>
> We had along a first-aid kit, lighters, plenty of water, food, a compass
and rope. With the sun shining and easily 100 hikers on the mountain that
day, it probably was overkill. But you never know.
>
> The trail can be steep, and the tendency is to concentrate on the steps
ahead. But stop now and then and look back. It's a progress report of the
most satisfying kind: sweeping views of the valley below. Renewed, you
trudge on.
>
> As you climb, the vegetation changes. In the lower elevations, there are
maples and birches. But as you approach the summit, only the hardy red
spruces, stunted though they are, survive the harsh conditions. There are
times, in fact, when you will see only three colors: the blue of the sky,
the green of the spruce, the white of the snow. That image alone is enough
to make the day worthwhile.
>
> There are a couple of very steep stretches as you approach the summit on
both the white cross and the white dot trails, and you want to be careful at
anytime, but especially in winter.
>
> We arrived on the summit at midday to find a half dozen other hikers
huddled on the downwind side of the summit. The wind was blowing, and it was
cold. Time to put a layer of clothing back on. Before we joined the huddle,
however, we surveyed the view. Wind or not, you climb a mountain, you reward
yourself with the view at the first opportunity.
>
> More than 65 miles off in the distance was the Boston skyline, the Hancock
and Prudential buildings most prominent. To the northeast were the White
Mountains. To the west, the Green Mountains, including Mount Ascutney.
Looking south maybe we saw Soapstone Mountain in Somers, Conn., maybe we
didn't. But I know that on a clear day you can see Monadnock from Soapstone.
Wachusett Mountain in Massachusetts was clear.
>
> Could we see Mount Agamenticus in Maine, as MacKaye did? If we did, we
didn't recognize it as such. Nor did we see anything that screamed "this is
Rhode Island." But we could see for at least 70 miles or so in any
direction. We took in our views, and ducked into the huddle behind a big
slab of granite.
>
> We had water, fruit and sandwiches along. If you can put up with the
weight on a winter hike, hot soup in a thermos is special. I had homemade
cheddar cheese soup along, and we each had a cup. Of the five people we met
in our huddle, two had driven from Connecticut, one from Enfield, one from
Windsor. Others came from the Boston area, and elsewhere in New Hampshire.
Nothing like wind and cold to encourage mountaintop camaraderie; we
descended the mountain with Tom Gray, a teacher at Loomis Chaffee School in
Windsor.
>
> >From the summit it was clear why the Abnakis called it Monadnock, for
mountain that stands alone. It is an isolated peak in the ancient
Appalachian Range of the eastern U. S. All those mountains we could see were
cousins, just not close cousins. So good an example of a solitary mountain
is Monadnock that it is not only the name given this mountain, but, for the
last 100 years, the general geological term for all such mountains
worldwide.
>
> Fitting, for the little mountain with the big appeal.
>
>
> . . .
>
>
> IF YOU GO
>
> Mount Monadnock, Jaffrey and Dublin New Hampshire
>
> Directions: Take I-91 north to Exit 28A, Massachusetts Route 10 to New
Hampshire Route 119 to Route 202. Follow signs to the park. Information:
603-532-8862 or www.new-hampshire.net/park.htm.
>
> Ambiance: 37 trails totaling 37 miles. Great views in all directions from
the summit. Highly popular, trails on sunny days can be heavily traveled.
>
> Activities: Hiking, nature study, camping in campground only.
>
> Facilities: Park store selling snacks; visitor center with educational
exhibits.
>
> Pets: Not allowed.
>
> Handicapped Access: Limited.
>
> Fees: $3 per person over 12 years old.
>
>
> Coosa (Trail ArchAngel on the Appalachian Trail in Georgia)
> Casey the WonderDog and Crockett the ManlyDog
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 23
> Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 09:55:03 EST
> From: GoVolsKelly@aol.com
> Subject: [at-l] See ya!
> To: AT-L@backcountry.net
> Message-ID: <8d.4698c70.2d6f62c7@aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> Well, folks, due to a first degree murder trial starting in a few weeks,
my
> work load is going to triple. Also, the PC at home is not hooked up due to
the
> remodeling we're doing.  So, I'm going on no mail for a while.  To all
those
> who email me off list, please continue to do so.  Y'all will be my link to
> sanity in what I'm sure will be an insane few weeks.  I can handle that
amount of
> email, just not the 60 or so that come from the at-l.
>
> I'm going to Key West in a month with my Mom, and I'm going to be doing
some
> exploring at Dry Tortugas National Park, so hopefully I'll come back with
an
> entertaining trip report.
>
> Y'all play nice while I'm gone.
>
> GoVols
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 24
> Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 10:06:02 EST
> From: PUDSCRAWLER@aol.com
> Subject: [at-l] Trail Fest
> To: at-l@backcountry.net
> Message-ID: <1ee.1a01ce50.2d6f655a@aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> No one has mentioned Trail Fest, which used to be held at Hot Springs
around
> Earth Day (yea!  my bearthday).  Has it fizzled out?
>
> Kinnickinic
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 25
> Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 10:09:26 EST
> From: PUDSCRAWLER@aol.com
> Subject: Re: [at-l] A suggestion that Ryan create the OT-L
> To: at-l@backcountry.net
> Message-ID: <f9.37d2f231.2d6f6626@aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> Bravo, OB.
>
> This is, of course, also a message that is OT.  Nevertheless, I do agree
and
> applaud your speaking out.
>
> Lent is once again upon us.  It is a time to get the negative out of our
> lives.  I hereby give up sending OT messages, although I reserve the right
to send
> faintly OT messages.  At any rate, I promise to attempt to manipulate any
> message I send to have some tie to the trail.
>
> THE NEW ME--
>
> So, I would like to know how you guys are doing right now who are leaving
for
> Springer within the next five weeks?  Is the weather such that you have
hope
> to have plenty water available until June?
>
> Kinnickinic
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 26
> Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 09:53:17 -0500
> From: "Jim and/or Ginny Owen" <spiriteagle99@hotmail.com>
> Subject: RE: [at-l] A suggestion that Ryan create the OT-L
> To: thornel@attglobal.net
> Cc: at-l@backcountry.net
> Message-ID: <BAY10-F96Ys2HXY9P3b0000b715@hotmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
>
> OB wrote:
> >This past month has been quite a display. "OT" has become a shield to
> >defend vitriol and diatribe. Few have willingly participated, and some
have
> >tried to counsel for moderation and topicality.
> <snip>
> >I'd like to suggest the formation of the OT-L, to allow those few hiking
> >aficionados to have the chance to post to a Backcountry.Net site.
>
>
> I'll second that motion.
> Jim
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Watch high-quality video with fast playback at MSN Video. Free!
> http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200365ave/direct/01/
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 27
> Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 10:32:57 -0500
> From: "Dave Hicks" <daveh@psknet.com>
> Subject: Re: [at-l] MIOX????
> To: "AT-L [List]" <at-l@backcountry.net>
> Message-ID: <004801c3fc7e$0f92e5b0$f45ca441@computer>
>
> I am still looking for more info on the MSR MIOX.  However, I got a bit of
> info from an outfitter, whom I trust.
>
> He said something alone the lines of the following:
>
> It seems that the EPA standards for registration of a device to be a
> "purifier", not just a filter, require that a "purifier" kill/remove
99.99%
> of all living matter in the water.  Several good filters were so listed as
> "purifier" until the late '90s, when PUR informed EPA that they were
having
> trouble meeting the standard.  It turns out that, except for the First
Need,
> none of the devices then registered as "purifiers" met the standard.
> Giardia and cryptosporidium were never a problem as long as personal
> hygiene, not cross contaminating hoses/filter parts, etc. stayed good.
LOL
> Viruses were the only problem with meeting the EPA standard -- hence the
> onboard after-filtration iodine treatment to kill viruses.  However,
iodine
> is a problem for people with thyroid conditions, etc.  It also seems that
> iodine filters can also be used in the manufacture of some illicit drugs.
> So, I assume the need for some other approach for outdoor vendors.
>
> BTW, during the same period of time, many major municipal water systems,
> including Washington, DC's (run by the Corps of Engineers) had major
> breakthroughs of cryptosporidium and/or giardia, mainly in the winter.
Both
> Crypto and Giardia naturally survive low temperature water, as well as
arid
> periods, by encysting themselves in a kind of fortified cell wall or
shell.
> They re-activate in a warm mammalian gut, like ours.  Municipal water
> systems filter water and then chlorinate it.  Well, iodine doesn't always
> work on cold and/or encysted giardia and crypto, so chlorine just isn't
> going to work.  So, I assume the need for some other approach for
municipal
> water systems.
>
> Along came MIOX as the "new" solution for municipal water systems.
>
> Then came miniaturizing it for the field.
>
> MIOX, steps 7-11, involve litmus paper test strips (good luck doing this
in
> rain at a spring along side the Trail ;-)}). Assuming everything is great,
> step 8-9 takes 10 minutes, and step 11 takes an additional 20, for a total
> wait of 30 minutes for a quart of water.  EXCEPT for the SMALL print:
Note:
> Water contaminated with Cryptosporidium requires a 4 hour wait time.  Hum!
> There's always a sign telling you crypto or non crypto, at any water
source,
> right?   ;-)}
>
> You can increase the dosage produced by the MSR MIOX system to treat up to
a
> gallon at a time.  In a warm climate (nighttime lows 50 degrees or above),
> this would work well for making the next day's water every night, for the
> start the day's hike.
>
> It sounds great for car campers, boaters, RV's, etc.  However, for the
long
> distant hiker/backpackers, I still have reservations.
>
> So, based on what I think that I have found out, I suspect that for us the
> best use for the MIOX would be as an after-filtration viral purifier and
> anti-re-contaminant, in non-rainy conditions.  The viruses are killed on
> contact, or in seconds, and the water stays free of contamination, even on
> hot days and with a bit of saliva, etc in the bottle.  And, I understand,
it
> tastes rather like regular chlorinated tap water.
>
> IMHO (based on what I think I have found out), for the weight and cost, a
> filter plus iodine tablets still currently marketed, may still be the way
to
> go.  Filter the water.  Then if you have any concern about viruses in the
> source put the tablet in a quart of water, seal it tightly, and shake it,
> waited AT LEAST 30 minutes before loosening the cap and shake out some
> treated water over the threads, waited another 10 minutes, and then drink
> iodized water.
>
> OTOH, if you have an extra yard and a quarter of cash burning a hole in
your
> pocket, don't mind the extra weight, and hate the taste of iodized water,
> MIOX might be for you.
>
> As always, YMMV and I am still looking for more information.
>
> If anyone has any additional information please share it with the list.
> Hey, where are all the engineers/scientist on the list?
>
> Chainsaw
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Dave Hicks" <daveh@psknet.com>
> To: "AT-L [List]" <at-l@backcountry.net>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 10:43 AM
> Subject: [at-l] MIOX????
>
>
> Anyone on the list have any experience with, or good information about
MSR's
> MIOX??
>
> Is this the same as that Iodizing thing we talked about last year?
>
> Is the Dwell time temperature sensitive?
>
> What do they mean by purifying large volumes of water -- i.e., will the
3.5
> oz pen handle a single hikers needs?
>
> Etc? Etc? Etc?
>
> According to MSR's site MIOX? was,  "Developed in conjunction with the
U.S.
> military, the MIOX? Purifier offers unrivaled ease of use and reliability
> for purifying large volumes of water, making it ideal for outdoor
> recreation, travel, and disaster-preparedness. It works by creating a
> powerful dose of mixed oxidants (MIOX), which is then added to untreated
> water, inactivating all viruses, bacteria, Giardia, and Cryptosporidium
> (which even iodine doesn't kill). And since the MIOX Purifier needs only
> common camera batteries and salt to operate, it's maintenance-free,
> delivering more water, more easily than any purifier ever before."
>
> They also say, "The MIOX? Purifier represents a revolution in water
> treatment. It's ultralight, compact, and easy to use-with no pumping,
> maintenance, or iodine required.
>
> "No pumping required
> Just add water, shake, and press a button.
>
> "Purifies water without iodine
> No health risk or unpleasant iodine taste.
>
> "Great for large volumes of water
> Perfect for groups or extended trips.
>
> "Ultralight and compact
> Fits in your pocket to go anywhere.
>
> "Reliable purification
> Inactivates all viruses, bacteria, Giardia, and Cryptosporidium.
>
> "Dwell times
> Viruses, bacteria: 15 min.
> Giardia: 30 min.
> Cryptosporidium: 4 hrs.
>
> "Weight
> Pen: 3.5 oz./99 g
> Kit: 8 oz./227 g"
>
> Chainsaw
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> at-l mailing list
> at-l@backcountry.net
> http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/at-l
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 28
> Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 10:46:06 -0500
> From: Amy <askowronek@mindspring.com>
> Subject: Re: [at-l] MIOX????
> To: AT-list <at-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
> Message-ID: <E3D621B9-6872-11D8-9691-0003934E617E@mindspring.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
>
>
> On Thursday, February 26, 2004, at 10:32 AM, Dave Hicks wrote:
>
> >
> > OTOH, if you have an extra yard and a quarter of cash burning a hole
> > in your
> > pocket, don't mind the extra weight, and hate the taste of iodized
> > water,
> > MIOX might be for you.
> >
> >
>
> It doesn't have to taste like iodine if you add vitamin C after it's
> done
> working.  The C combines with the iodine and leaves very little
> iodine taste, imho.  Swirling the C around in the bottle always amazes
> me as the water magically turns from iodine-orange to clear.  :)
>
> -amy
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 29
> Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 11:14:01 -0500
> From: "Coosa" <lorac4491@linkamerica.net>
> Subject: [at-l] Trail Days Website is UP
> To: "AT-L" <at-l@backcountry.net>
> Message-ID:
> <d9ac5ff1274f43f6aaa46773a96f3b0e.lorac4491@linkamerica.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>
> http://www.traildays.nstemp.com/
>
> Coosa
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 30
> Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 11:18:27 -0500
> From: <athummingbird@dnet.net>
> Subject: Re: [at-l] Starting dates
> To: <Bror8588@aol.com>, <the_rev_mrf@kingcon.com>,
> <AT-L@backcountry.net>
> Message-ID: <00a801c3fc84$2b79efc0$3782cd41@linda>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Hi Skylander,
>
> I keep meaning to go over and check out the new hostel.  I got a note from
> the owners about an upcoming open house, but not sure when it is.  I did
not
> realize the address was Dahlonega, thought it was around Woody Gap.  It
> sounds like a great place and very reasonably priced too.
>
> Maybe we will see you there!  Good luck on your hike.
>
> Hummingbird
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 31
> Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 11:16:52 -0500
> From: Jim Bullard <jbullar1@twcny.rr.com>
> Subject: Re: [at-l] MIOX????
> To: Amy <askowronek@mindspring.com>, AT-list
> <at-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20040226111112.0203a750@pop-server>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
>
> At 10:46 AM 2/26/2004 -0500, Amy wrote:
>
> >On Thursday, February 26, 2004, at 10:32 AM, Dave Hicks wrote:
> >>
> >>OTOH, if you have an extra yard and a quarter of cash burning a hole in
your
> >>pocket, don't mind the extra weight, and hate the taste of iodized
water,
> >>MIOX might be for you.
> >
> >It doesn't have to taste like iodine if you add vitamin C after it's done
> >working.  The C combines with the iodine and leaves very little
> >iodine taste, imho.  Swirling the C around in the bottle always amazes
> >me as the water magically turns from iodine-orange to clear.  :)
> >
> >-amy
>
> One of the sites I checked says "Let sit 15 minutes to remove viruses and
> bacteria, 30 minutes for giardia, and 4 hours for cryptosporidia." A 15
> minute wait isn't bad, 30 is getting kinda long but 4 hours is definitely
a
> long time to wait if you are thirsty. One of the things I like about a
> filter is that you don't have to wait to drink but to each his/her own I
guess.
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 32
> Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 11:40:21 -0500
> From: "Bob C." <ellen@clinic.net>
> Subject: Re[2]: [at-l] MIOX????
> To: Jim Bullard <jbullar1@twcny.rr.com>
> Cc: AT-list <at-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
> Message-ID: <18118699219.20040226114021@clinic.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> The message from the manufacturer can be found at
>
>  http://www.miox.com/News/news.html
>
>  Essentially the device uses three lithium batteries (watch batteries if I
>  remember right) to turn a salt solution into chlorine. A set of batteries
will
>  treat 50 gallons of water. I'm writing from memory, so my figures might
be
>  off.
>
>  No mention is made of water temperature. But I suspect water at near
freezing
>  temperature, as streams tend to be in Georgia in February and March,
might
>  require more time.
>
>  For myself, I'll continue to use my Zip Stove to boil emergency water
each
>  evening, and mostly drink untreated water that strikes me as safe.
Drinking
>  from cold trailside springs always strikes me as worth the gamble. High
>  mountain streams the same. I try to avoid drinking from streams and lakes
and
>  ponds in valleys, especially in farming country.
>
>  Weary
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 33
> Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 11:47:53 -0500
> From: "Bob C." <ellen@clinic.net>
> Subject: Re[3]: [at-l] MIOX????
> To: "Bob C." <ellen@clinic.net>
> Cc: AT-list <at-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
> Message-ID: <12619151430.20040226114753@clinic.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Make than two, 3 volt Camera batteries. Which makes treatment with the
device,
> relatively expensive.
>
> Weary
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 34
> Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 12:14:15 -0500
> From: W F Thorneloe <thornel@attglobal.net>
> Subject: Re: [at-l] MIOX????
> To: at-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040226115922.024525e0@localhost>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
>
> Chainsaw wrote an excellent analysis of the MIOX water purification
system.
>
> It has FDA approval, which implies that it will kill nasties when used in
> laboratory conditions, using approved instructions and when batteries and
> equipment are in good shape.
>
> We know this works with any of the filters, iodine products and similar
> equipment approved by FDA.
>
> What we don't know is whether any of this technology / cost contributes to
> better outcomes for real world hikers. There are confounding variables
> including toilet hygiene, food preparation, among other risk factors for
GI
> pathology. There are vast differences in testing conditions and hiking
> conditions. There are numerous obstacles to preparation of a study that
> might enlighten our knowledge of these problems.
>
> I did find a TV show of interest on Discovery - Mythbusters. The segment
> involved testing to see if toothbrushes picked up coliform bacteria from
> the air in their bathroom, with a control set of toothbrushes kept under
> glass in their kitchen. Cultures from all of the toothbrushes yielded
> coliform bacteria. No one was ill who had been in contact with these
> toothbrushes or who had tested them. One geek expressed concern over
> finding such disgusting bacteria, even in the kitchen. The other sagely
> noted "Poo is everywhere."
>
> You pay your ante. You take your chances.
>
> OrangeBug
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 35
> Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 12:51:58 -0500
> From: "Marsha" <atrailhiker@adelphia.net>
> Subject: Re: [at-l] WebSite
> To: "Jim Bullard" <jbullar1@twcny.rr.com>
> Cc: AT-L Mail <at-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
> Message-ID: <055a01c3fc91$3b0b4e40$0202a8c0@marthaandmarsha>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> WOW-this is REAL nice Jim-thanks for this link. It's going to take me
awhile
> to watch all of it, but so worth it. I have bookmarked-so it will never be
> lost. I have a cable modem, and for those of you that have pop-up
> protection, hold down your shift key until the video outline appears. I
used
> RealPlayer on this-it was just perfect.
> Marsha
> Cleveland
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Jim Bullard" <jbullar1@twcny.rr.com>
> To: <AT-L@backcountry.net>
> Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 8:58 AM
> Subject: [at-l] WebSite
>
>
> > Here's a link to a web site that has videos of interest to hikers
> > <http://tinyurl.com/2yw3m> including the Long Trail which features
Bleeder
> > Guy and has shots of another hikers wearing An ALDHA tee shirt. The 45
> > videos, from PBS stations, cover trails all across the country. WARNING!
> > They may not be usable if you are on dial-up. I had downloading pauses
on
> > cable.
> >
> > Saunterer
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > at-l mailing list
> > at-l@backcountry.net
> > http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/at-l
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> at-l mailing list
> at-l@backcountry.net
> http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/at-l
>
>
> End of at-l Digest, Vol 10, Issue 24
> ************************************