[at-l] RE: Group Hiking Query

[greyowl at rcn.com (greyowl@xxxxxxx)]

Part of the problem with the scouts is that they are required 
to have 2 deep leadership so for every outing there must be 
at least two adults.  What happens when you have twenty boys 
and four adults?  The reason that there must be two deep 
leader ship if for two reasons.  One is that it (mistakenly) 
assume child molestation does not occur and secondly there 
are liability issues.  The real world raises its ugly head.  
So as scouts we would do groups of ten sometimes large.  LNT 
does not have much to do with group size.  A group of twenty 
scouts can have a lot less impact than 4 guys who decide to 
party in a shelter.

I think that most boyscout groups are probably more aware of 
their impact on the enviroment than most through hikers.  And 
who is going to deny a scout an outdoor experience?  I used 
to be an high adventure assistant scout leader and I cannot 
even begin to tell you how much we agonized over our 
backpacking trips.

Grey Owl


---- Original message ----
>Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 19:21:27 -0600
>From: Ron Martino <yumitori@montana.com>  
>Subject: Re: [at-l] RE: Group Hiking Query  
>To: at-l@mailman.backcountry.net
>
>
>> I hear what you're saying and I don't entirely disagree. 
We all should be
>> sensitive to the issues you raise.
>> 
>> But as a Boy Scout leader I find that advice is also 
impractical.
>> 
>> In order to give a group the "intimate relationship with 
the outdoors" they
>> are seeking, and yet maintain the safety and training they 
need, it is
>> usually not possible to break up the group into sub-groups 
that small and
>> still keep sufficient leadership.
>> 
>> This is especially true in Boy Scouts. We are required to 
maintain at least
>> two adult leaders in every group, regardless of group 
size, and there are
>> only so many leaders to go around.
>> 
>> Scouts are taught to follow Leave No Trace principles, so 
hopefully that
>> mitigates the situation.
>> 
>> -jns
>
>	Since traveling in smaller groups is itself often 
considered part of
>the Leave No Trace ethic, how do you reconcile the two? 
Then, I must say
>that on the face of it, the argument that one needs to keep 
larger
>groups together in order to provide an "intimate 
relationship with the
>outdoors" seems to be an oxymoron.
>
>	I curious - how much training in traveling gently in 
the backcountry do
>the leaders of your troop receive?
>
>	Ron
>
>-- 
>
>It is our attitude toward free thought and free expression 
that will
>determine our fate. There must be no limit on the range of 
temperate
>discussion, no limits on thought. No subject must be taboo. 
No censor
>must preside at our assemblies. 
>	William O. Douglas 
>
>yumitori(AT)montana(DOT)com
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