[at-l] Pack Liners

[daveh at psknet.com (David Hicks)]

A list member pointed out to me that, "The problem is, they put the waterproof 
coating on the inside so the fabric
still gets wet."

Bummer!

I was thinking more along the lines of silnylon construction, when I read 
"newer."

Waterproof coating on the inside of fabric has been around for a while and, 
IMHO, it is just extra weight.  One of my main packs (for the past three of 
years) is the Vapor Trail.  It has that construction -- one of my only 
complaints.

I may be approaching the belt and suspenders mindset (or may be I have 
bypassed that level).  However, I have most stuff organized in waterproof bags 
inside a compactor bag, and I wear a Packa over that (in either the full Packa 
mode, or pack cover mode -- depending on the weather).  The only thing I hang 
outside the pack (and hence away from my dry stuff) is my silnylon tent and 
crocks.

Last year I hiked in a lot of rain with this rig and never had a damp item in 
my bag.  BTW --  similar to Amy my down sleeping bag has its own waterproof 
bag.  However, mine is inside the trash compactor.  I like her idea and may 
switch.

Re: the "stuff organized in waterproof bags inside a compactor bag...."  I 
tend to distrust Ziplocs and the like.  Had too many pop open in the past.  If 
you don't get all the air out, the pressure inside a pack will and the results 
is a popped zip lock.  I also avoid compression bag and small stuff bags.  To 
quote Colin Fletcher:

"Manufacturers tend to make stuff sacks for sleeping bags and other items as 
small as possible, if not smaller. Apart from saving material and a scrittage 
of weight, and convincing customers that the stuffed product is small and neat 
and probably light, the only advantage I can discern is a possible increase in 
waterproofness due to skintightness when packed. That may be a gain for those 
who carry sleeping bags outside their packs. For others it's offset with acres 
to spare by two weighty debits.


"First, you do not, as might be imagined, save space. A tightly packed stuff 
sack tends to sit stalwartly and nonconformingly in its corner of a pack; 
unless you have soft, yielding articles to stuff around it you leave wasted 
space at its peripheries.



"Second, and more important, there's the stuffing difficulty. A bag of such a 
size that you can just about cram in your sleeping bag or down jacket or 
whatever with no more than a minor struggle in store or living room at a 
windless 70*F, when you're fresh and fed, may seem beguilingly efficient. In a 
gale, at 20?, when you're hungry and weary and in a hurry, it transmutes into 
a monster.



"I always try to buy a stuff sack big enough to take its load with room to 
spare, leaving it soft, malleable, odd-corner-fitting-and easily stuffable."


Somewhere (one of his earlier "Walkers"?), I read a comparison to a pack full 
of volley balls, basketballs, etc with lots of air (wasted space) between 
them.  From time to time I see hikers with these incredibly lumpy packs and 
envision all the wasted space and internal stress.

So, my silnylon stuff sacks are large enough to let their content shift and 
settle against each other, filling the entire pack and they are waterproofed 
primarily to fend off moisture when they are outside the compactor bag.

So, for me the Packa is to keeps the pack material (including straps, belts, 
etc) dry.  The compression bag is the second line of defense.  The silnylon 
stuff sacks for when in use outside the pack and are the third line.

Chainsaw

BTW -- for small stuff that absolutely must stay dry (e.g., my Rx) I add an 
additional layer of waterproofness -- the "specimen" bottles used by Doctors, 
labs, etc.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David Hicks" <daveh@psknet.com>
To: "Nancy" <bogey1@650dialup.com>; "List _AT-L" <at-l@backcountry.net>
Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 8:11 PM
Subject: Re: [at-l] Pack Liners


>>
I have assumed that the goal of the waterproof fabrics was to keep the bag
fabric itself from soaking up water and getting very heavy.
<<