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[at-l] history - was (no subject)

In a message dated 4/14/2005 2:58:30 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
spiriteagle99@hotmail.com writes:

   Second, Wingy wasn't "frozen out" - he left in a snit, leaving 
the ATC high and dry.

             *** We're all familiar with Wingfoot's personality, which is 
what this is all about really. While I don't doubt this is true I suspect it has 
something to do with frustration over ATC's general lack of participatory 
advocacy. Seeing the way you refer to him here, I think I have a good idea why.   

  And third, the lawsuit was over a 3 word sequence 
that I've been told had been lifted directly from the Philosophers Guide 
which Wingy had (IMO) wrongfully appropriated.  Legally, Wingy didn't have a 
leg to stand on, but the ATC doesn't like negative publicity, so they 

           ***    This is probably minutia. I did visit Wingfoot once on his 
front porch and he told me that several passages and entries he developed 
himself were used in publications he donated his time to. To be honest with you, 
myself, I would be glad to contribute my words to ATC and let them use them. 
However he specifically said words and phrases he had contributed were slightly 
altered and kept in the guides. These continued to be used after measures were 
taken to squeeze him out of the picture (as you illustrate here). To prove 
I'm not a Wingfoot shill my thoughts are no one should sue ATC unless serious 
circumstances were involved. I don't know enough about this to judge his 
reasons. Maybe he felt he was screwed. 

   Do you think it's just coincidence that the ATC settlement was 
exactly what he spent to start up Trailplace?  Well, maybe it is just 
coincidence that the Trailplace startup happened just after the settlement.

         ***   This is why I weigh what you say about Wingfoot with a grain 
of salt. Trailplace was up and running for several years before he announced 
the suit on the site. I any case, if this is accurate, ATC couldn't have made a 
better investment. If that site had functioned as planned it would have 
boosted ATC's pursuits significantly. Trailplace was instrumental in attracting 
influence towards Trail actions. While I personally think Wingfoot should loosen 
his strict requirements for site participation for the sake of his cause, I 
also think intentional apathy was probably more responsible (not to mention 
vindictiveness). But heck, Trailplace is now a small site with a limited 
membership. It is now mostly a venue for his guidebook and Trail advice. A size he can 
control. Interestingly, while some people claim he is on the brink of total 
collapse, I see he manages threads with 3 or 4 thousand replies. To compare, a 
much more popular site, Whiteblaze, has threads in the 15-20 thousand range. If 
you compare memberships, Wingfoot's site is actually slightly more productive 
per user. 

Roxy should also note that Wingy was not "jerked around" at all - he's the 
one who wanted to change the deal AFTER he had made the commitment to do the 
job.  If he'd had any ethical standards at all, he'd have handed over the 
Handbook to someone else at ATC.  As it had been handed over to him.  
Instead, he took his ball and left.

             ***   OK, but when does the fact that he has proven his 
competency count for anything? While his handbook isn't an advocacy medium, it does 
strike many hikers as being preferable. As you yourself have said many times in 
here, watch how people vote with their feet. Myself, I am glad someone with 
his sense of responsibility towards advocacy has control of an AT source. The 
other option is having only one form of Trail information. Personally I think he 
offers a higher quality form. For one thing, he wouldn't call me "Roxy" in 
contempt because I said something he didn't agree with. (OK maybe he would 
delete me ruthlessly - but nobody's perfect lol)

I'll betcha it was Wingy who told you that, wasn't it, Roxy?  But Wingy was 
"ONE" name in a 3 page list of contributors to the 1990 PG - which, BTW, 
included Walt Daniels and Leslie Booher - who are on at-l.  Wingy didn't 
even rate inclusion in the "Special Thanks" section of the acknowledgments.

           ***     I'll take Maret at his word when he credited Wingfoot for 
"single-handedly updating the 'Philosopher's Guide'. " Including the 1990 
version you liked so much. (Yes WF did tell me that). Let me get this straight, 
the man Maret agreed to turn his guide over to is the same one you're claiming 
wasn't worth mentioning in the guide? Again Jim, forgive me for doubting your 
version, but that begs something. Especially since he seems to be doing all 
right with it up to now. What I'm sensing here is Trail politics were the real 

Finally, let's get this straight - I don't give a royal flying fart about 
Wingy or what he did, is doing or will do in the future.  With the exception 
of the Handbook, he's become a null factor as far as the trail world is 
concerned. And given what I know about the Companion, I suspect even that's 
not long for this world. I DO, however, give a damn when people trot out 
this arrant "Whitewash Wingy" nonsense that insults, denigrates and does 
disservice to people like Darrell Maret, who actually did the work that some 
would claim for Wingy.  And Weary - and now Roxy - have done exactly that.  
We've had this conversation before - telling me they don't know better would 
be disingenuous at best.

              ***   Again Jim, not to accuse you of striking out in a 
prejudicial manner against Wingfoot, but I'm forced to ask who has been "doing the 
work" since Maret left? It's been many years since Wingfoot's had the handbook 
on his own, and many people compliment it as being the best AT guide, so at 
what point does Wingfoot get credit? Sorry, but it looks like you are waging a 
personal spite campaign against him to deny credit. In fact this looks a lot 
like what Wingfoot is claiming about certain Trail personalities trying to force 
him out. Be fair Jim, someone had to take over the 'Philosopher's Guide'. You 
can't deny Wingfoot's done a good job of it (even while being campaigned 
against indiscriminately). Sounds like a pride issue on both sides.