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[at-l] history - was (no subject)
- Subject: [at-l] history - was (no subject)
- From: RoksnRoots at aol.com (RoksnRoots@aol.com)
- Date: Fri Apr 15 00:14:14 2005
In a message dated 4/14/2005 2:58:30 AM Eastern Standard Time,
Second, Wingy wasn't "frozen out" - he left in a snit, leaving
the ATC high and dry.
*** We're all familiar with Wingfoot's personality, which is
what this is all about really. While I don't doubt this is true I suspect it has
something to do with frustration over ATC's general lack of participatory
advocacy. Seeing the way you refer to him here, I think I have a good idea why.
And third, the lawsuit was over a 3 word sequence
that I've been told had been lifted directly from the Philosophers Guide
which Wingy had (IMO) wrongfully appropriated. Legally, Wingy didn't have a
leg to stand on, but the ATC doesn't like negative publicity, so they
*** This is probably minutia. I did visit Wingfoot once on his
front porch and he told me that several passages and entries he developed
himself were used in publications he donated his time to. To be honest with you,
myself, I would be glad to contribute my words to ATC and let them use them.
However he specifically said words and phrases he had contributed were slightly
altered and kept in the guides. These continued to be used after measures were
taken to squeeze him out of the picture (as you illustrate here). To prove
I'm not a Wingfoot shill my thoughts are no one should sue ATC unless serious
circumstances were involved. I don't know enough about this to judge his
reasons. Maybe he felt he was screwed.
Do you think it's just coincidence that the ATC settlement was
exactly what he spent to start up Trailplace? Well, maybe it is just
coincidence that the Trailplace startup happened just after the settlement.
*** This is why I weigh what you say about Wingfoot with a grain
of salt. Trailplace was up and running for several years before he announced
the suit on the site. I any case, if this is accurate, ATC couldn't have made a
better investment. If that site had functioned as planned it would have
boosted ATC's pursuits significantly. Trailplace was instrumental in attracting
influence towards Trail actions. While I personally think Wingfoot should loosen
his strict requirements for site participation for the sake of his cause, I
also think intentional apathy was probably more responsible (not to mention
vindictiveness). But heck, Trailplace is now a small site with a limited
membership. It is now mostly a venue for his guidebook and Trail advice. A size he can
control. Interestingly, while some people claim he is on the brink of total
collapse, I see he manages threads with 3 or 4 thousand replies. To compare, a
much more popular site, Whiteblaze, has threads in the 15-20 thousand range. If
you compare memberships, Wingfoot's site is actually slightly more productive
Roxy should also note that Wingy was not "jerked around" at all - he's the
one who wanted to change the deal AFTER he had made the commitment to do the
job. If he'd had any ethical standards at all, he'd have handed over the
Handbook to someone else at ATC. As it had been handed over to him.
Instead, he took his ball and left.
*** OK, but when does the fact that he has proven his
competency count for anything? While his handbook isn't an advocacy medium, it does
strike many hikers as being preferable. As you yourself have said many times in
here, watch how people vote with their feet. Myself, I am glad someone with
his sense of responsibility towards advocacy has control of an AT source. The
other option is having only one form of Trail information. Personally I think he
offers a higher quality form. For one thing, he wouldn't call me "Roxy" in
contempt because I said something he didn't agree with. (OK maybe he would
delete me ruthlessly - but nobody's perfect lol)
I'll betcha it was Wingy who told you that, wasn't it, Roxy? But Wingy was
"ONE" name in a 3 page list of contributors to the 1990 PG - which, BTW,
included Walt Daniels and Leslie Booher - who are on at-l. Wingy didn't
even rate inclusion in the "Special Thanks" section of the acknowledgments.
*** I'll take Maret at his word when he credited Wingfoot for
"single-handedly updating the 'Philosopher's Guide'. " Including the 1990
version you liked so much. (Yes WF did tell me that). Let me get this straight,
the man Maret agreed to turn his guide over to is the same one you're claiming
wasn't worth mentioning in the guide? Again Jim, forgive me for doubting your
version, but that begs something. Especially since he seems to be doing all
right with it up to now. What I'm sensing here is Trail politics were the real
Finally, let's get this straight - I don't give a royal flying fart about
Wingy or what he did, is doing or will do in the future. With the exception
of the Handbook, he's become a null factor as far as the trail world is
concerned. And given what I know about the Companion, I suspect even that's
not long for this world. I DO, however, give a damn when people trot out
this arrant "Whitewash Wingy" nonsense that insults, denigrates and does
disservice to people like Darrell Maret, who actually did the work that some
would claim for Wingy. And Weary - and now Roxy - have done exactly that.
We've had this conversation before - telling me they don't know better would
be disingenuous at best.
*** Again Jim, not to accuse you of striking out in a
prejudicial manner against Wingfoot, but I'm forced to ask who has been "doing the
work" since Maret left? It's been many years since Wingfoot's had the handbook
on his own, and many people compliment it as being the best AT guide, so at
what point does Wingfoot get credit? Sorry, but it looks like you are waging a
personal spite campaign against him to deny credit. In fact this looks a lot
like what Wingfoot is claiming about certain Trail personalities trying to force
him out. Be fair Jim, someone had to take over the 'Philosopher's Guide'. You
can't deny Wingfoot's done a good job of it (even while being campaigned
against indiscriminately). Sounds like a pride issue on both sides.