Re[2]: [at-l] Respect For AT Wildness Values

[jbkramer@afn.org (Bryan Kramer)]

Heh right, your own preferred paper has an article about Forest Service
investigations:

"As the U.S. Forest Service wraps up its investigation of the Thirty
Mile fire that killed four firefighters July 10, even the agency's
supporters say its system for investigating deaths from wildfires is
deeply flawed. 

Problems range from conflicts of interest inherent in the agency's
practice of investigating itself to what one top fire investigator said
is the habit of whitewashing findings to protect people - and the agency
- from embarrassment, blame and lawsuits. 

Interviews and records show there are no minimum qualifications for
wildfire investigators, and that the process can obscure the truth,
preventing valuable lessons from being heeded. 

The problems are so persistent and pervasive that some of the service's
most stellar investigators say changes are needed to avoid wasting
resources and putting firefighters at greater risk"

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/134336393_investigate02m
0.html


The only purpose of USFS investigations is to prevent the truth from
coming to light. And also to prevent anyone from having to take
responsibility of their actions. How many managers have been fired?


> 
> Read the investigative report, Bryan.
> 
> * The firefighters who died were green and inexperienced
> * The firefighters who died ignored a number of basic rules
> of conduct

Right the news services reports make it clear that the experienced
hotshot crew arranged, they thought, for water drops to start at 10 AM.
But they didn't start until 4 PM. So they put the inexperienced crews in
at ( AM and left them to fry.

> * Apparently the supervisors in charge were unaware of the
> more general edict about the ESA in situations of mortal danger.
> 
> In a nutshell:  There was no need to seek permission from 
> anyone, and the supervisors in charge should have known that.

Possibly true but the culture of the USFS made them think that they
could not use the water without permission. Do you think the average
person would assume that he could not use water from a river to save
lives, of course not they were told by the powers-that-be that they had
to get permisssion. Any other theory is idiotic and irrational. Indeed
the FS response shows a coverup in progress, from the Yakima paper:

"Soderquist and Kampen have refused to answer subsequent questions about
the use of aircraft. Speaking through other Forest Service officials,
Daniels, who was Kampen's boss at the fire, has refused to answer all
questions about the fire. 

The Forest Service told those involved in the Thirtymile Fire not to
discuss helicopter use, said Mick Mueller, an agency spokesman. 

Radio logs do confirm an Endangered Species Act delay in the use of the
helicopter. At 1:12 p.m., after a spotter plane arrived to direct the
air battle, a Forest Service dispatcher told firefighters the helicopter
could not pull water from the Chewuch River without permission.
Soderquist gave permission at 2 p.m."


> 
> * There is severe doubt as to whether the amount of water 
> that the helicopters might have provided could have made a 
> difference in saving the firefighters who died.

Sure I'd say the same thing if I was in their position, especially
considering their past history.

> 
> * The whole notion that the ESA led to these four deaths has 
> been promulgated by those who would like nothing more than to 
> have the ESA nullified.  It is abhorrent and shameful that 
> they'd use this tragedy to undo such a critical and visionary 
> piece of legislation.

Its not the ESA that is the problem but rather the unjustified use of
the ESA by environmental radicals that is at stake. Just to bring up
another example, the ESA was used to block logging in California because
a FS employee looked at some aerial photos and thought that that looked
like a place that owls would like.

The USFS itself says:

"Bosworth's fire safety information, which encompasses 20 pages of the
reply, contains only anecdotal information "and not expected to be
complete," the agency wrote. 

But that anecdotal information also contains documentation of incidents
where Forest Service employees felt that political pressure forced them
to behave in an unsafe manner. According to Bosworth's report, political
pressure was a factor in 37 of 335 incidents"

http://www.yakima-herald.com/cgi-bin/liveique.acgi$rec=43507?home

I think in this case ESA can be inserted for political pressure.