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[pct-l] Re: pct-l-digest V1 #475
- Subject: [pct-l] Re: pct-l-digest V1 #475
- From: "Emory J. Hanlon" <hanlon@snowcrest.net>
- Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 10:50:49 -0700 (PDT)
At 12:00 AM 5/7/98 -0500, you wrote:
>
>pct-l-digest Thursday, May 7 1998 Volume 01 : Number 475
>
>
>
>In this issue:
>
> [pct-l] ** LNT Survey **
> [pct-l] Re: going stoveless?
> [pct-l] Re: Going Stoveless
> [pct-l] [Fwd: Going Stoveless submission from ["Joe Sobinovsky"
<sobinovsky@email.msn.com>]]
> [pct-l] stoves, airlines and campfires, dehy chilli
> Re: [pct-l] Re: Going Stoveless
> [pct-l] LNT-(small)"flame"(of short duration)
> Re: [pct-l] LNT-(small)"flame"(of short duration)
> Re: [pct-l] Re: pct-l-digest V1 #470
> [pct-l] fwd: Going stoveless
> Re: [pct-l] LNT-(small)"flame"(of short duration)
> [pct-l] Looking for weights.....
> [pct-l] RE: going stoveless?
> [pct-l] Tales from the trail.
> [pct-l] Extended Food List
> [pct-l] "open" campfires-confusion
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 08:28:36 -0600
>From: charliethorpe@worldnet.att.net (Charlie Thorpe)
>Subject: [pct-l] ** LNT Survey **
>
>Hello All -
>
>This is the "Leave No Trace" survey that I warned you about <g>.
>
>It looks long, but it goes quick. Please take all the time you need to
>fill it out...I am REALLY looking forward to getting feedback from the
>sharp folks on this list.
>
>Please DO NOT respond to this survey via a public message to the list
>(REALLY clogs it up)!
>
>I am interested in keeping track of the % of return from each list (AT-L
>responses get put into one bucket, ATML into another, PCT-L into another,
>etc.), but I will NOT be keeping track of the individuals who respond.
>
>Some on PCT-L also subscribe to either AT-L or ATML and have returned the
>survey from one/both of them. Please respond again from PCT-L (I have
>"improved" the survey slightly <g>)...I can't simply add your previous
>response to the PCT-L stack because I don't have any way to tell which one
>it was (all returns are entered "blind" into the spreadsheet I am using for
>a database).
>
>It will be interesting to see if there is any correlation between "LNT"
>attitudes and the simple demographic info requested at the start of the
>survey (helps understand the backcountry users a little better and might
>allow "gaps" in the LNT presentation to be plugged up!).
>
>I will compile the results and share with anyone who is interested. I will
>NOT provide any names, email addresses, attributed excerpts, or copies of
>the returns to anyone...all returns WILL be deleted as soon as the survey
>is over.
>
>Thanks a LOT for taking the time to fill in this survey! My goal is
>twofold: to better understand the attitudes of backcountry users AND to
>improve our future chances of getting ALL these good folks to at least take
>a look at the important LNT message.
>
>Please delete all but the correct response "choice" that best fits the "< ?
>>". If you feel that you need to add something else to give a more
>accurate answer, just do a CR> after the survey question and add in
>whatever comments you feel are appropriate (IF YOU MAKE YOUR ADDITIONAL
>COMMENTS IN CAPS, I WILL BE SURE TO SPOT THEM <g>).
>
>For example, the survey question might look like:
>
>I always carry < ? > hiking sticks/poles: < no one two more >
>
>My own answer on the returned survey might look something like:
>
>I always carry < ? > hiking sticks/poles: < one >
> I SOMETIMES HUNT UP ANOTHER ONE WHEN I AM FORDING A BAD CREEK
>
>"BP" = BEFORE reading the series of 15 LNT postings
>"AP" = AFTER reading the series of 15 LNT postings
>
>If anyone wants copies of any/all of the 15 LNT postings, just send me a
>private email...it is absolutely no problem to send them out.
>
>"Open-ended" questions are at the end of the survey.
>
>Thanks a LOT for giving up a few minutes of good hiking time to do the LNT
>survey!
>
>Trace No Leaves,
>
>- - Charlie II
>
>- --------------< LNT survey follows >-----------------
>
>Please do NOT send the survey to the list. Just hit the "Reply To" button
>and send it back to me via private email.
>
>On some email software, using the "redirect" instead of the "reply" button
>will allow a return without all the added quote marks (">") causing
>unwanted line-wrapping and generally getting in the way.
>
>Thanks!
>
>1) I am < ? >: female >
>
>2) I am < ? > years old: 46-65
>
>3) I have < ? > miles of backpacking under my belt:< give est. total >50
>
>4) I am a < ? > hiker:<local/"short" section thru >
>
>5) I have used < ? > blocks of time on my longest hike(s):
>
> < weekend
>
>6) I usually prefer to hike < ? >: w/partner
>
>7) I usually prefer to hike < ? >: without dog >
>
>8) I < ? > help with "organized" trail/campsite/shelter maintenance:
>
> sometimes
>
>9) My highest level of education (degree) is < ? >:
>
> undergrad
>
>10) I read < ? > of the set of 15 LNT postings: most
>- ---
>11) BP, I knew < ? > about LNT: < zero little some much >
>
>12) AP, I know < ? > about LNT: some
>- ---
>13) BP, I felt that the LNT effort was < ? >:
>
> critical >
>
>14) AP, I feel that the LNT effort is < ? >:
>
> critical >
>- ---
>15) BP, I knew < ? > about the ways I can do damage (4 C's) in the
> backcountry: some
>
>16) AP, I know < ? > about the ways I can do damage (4 C's) in the
> backcountry: much >
>- ---
>17) BP, I knew < ? > about the reasons I might not want to do damage:
>
> much >
>
>18) AP, I know < ? > about the reasons I might not want to do damage:
>
> much >
>- ---
>19) BP, I felt that it was < ? > to *NOT* damage our backcountry:
>
fairly important
>
>20) AP, I feel that it is < ? > to *NOT* damage our backcountry:
>
>< fairly important
>- ---
>21) BP, I < ? > used "catholes" instead of leaving feces on surface:
>
> always >
>
>22) AP, I will <?> use "catholes" instead of leaving feces on surface:
>
> always >
>- ---
>23) BP, I usually disposed of my used toilet paper by < ? >:
>
> pack out burn
>
>24) AP, I plan to usually dispose of my used toilet paper by < ? >:
>
> burn
>- ---
>25) BP, I was willing to build a legal campfire < ? >:
>
> much of the time
>
>26) AP, I will be willing to build a legal campfire < ? >:
>
> much of the time
>- ---
>27) BP, I < ? > considered potential damage when thinking about making
> a campfire: rarely
>
>28) AP, I < ? > will consider potential damage when I think about
> making a campfire:
>
> much of the time
>- ---
>29) BP, I felt it was < ? > important to leave "wild" items in place:
>
> much of the time
>
>30) AP, I feel it is < ? > important to leave "wild" items in place:
>
> much of the time
>- ---
>31) BP, I < ? > considered LNT issues when planning a backcountry
> trip: rarely
>
>32) AP, I will < ? > consider LNT issues when planning a backcountry
> trip: much of the time
>
>*<Just do a "CR>" after the following questions to add your comments>*
>
>33) Please list any parts of the 15 LNT postings that struck you as
> being particularly effective in getting the LNT message across
> (what worked?):
sensitive, middle of the road approach, always best with most people
>
>34) Please list any parts of the 15 LNT postings that seemed to get
> in the way of getting the LNT message across (what didn't work?):
>
>35) Please list any important parts of the LNT message that seemed to
> get left out (or given short shrift!):
>
>36) Please list any parts of the LNT message that you think are wrong
> (or at least need to be explained/proven much better):everything that
is taken to an "extreme" outside limit
>
>37) Please list any LNT related questions that you would like to see
> researched further (I will try to find someone to get busy!):
>
>38) Please list any minimum-impact backcountry use "systems" (other
> than LNT) that you have become familiar with over the years (I
> want to learn from them!):
>
>39) Please list any organizations that you belong to that could be
> effective in helping to spread the LNT message to its members
> (perhaps we can help them a little <g>):
>
>40) List any internet "forums/sites/lists" that you might be aware of
> that could be effective in helping to spread the LNT message
> (maybe we can "make it so"!):
>- ---
>Hooboy..use the "rest" of the space for any/all comments about anything
>else <g>..THANKS!I am not a fan of ANYTHING that is an extreme action
and/or optinion...I do NOT believe in LNT totally and completely because to
go to that extreme is taking away from your faith of nature and other forces
beside people kind, i.e., we (people) are the best, most, and end-all of all
existence. I believe in other forces of nature than just people, i.e., I
have faith in other powers than just people power. I believe in common
sense, awareness, knowledge, fairness, responsibility and knowing your place
in this life. I do not get totally behind anything that goes to either
extreme: to leave personal garbage in the out-of-doors is wrong, so is,
saying you have all the answers to all the questions at all times, is wrong.
Thanks for listening. JoAnn
>
>
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http://www.hack.net/lists *
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 09:43:56 -0500
>From: Mark Tabb <mtabb@stereo.ai.uiuc.edu>
>Subject: [pct-l] Re: going stoveless?
>
>Going stoveless always seems to be controversial. Some (e.g., Jardine) hate
>it, while others, like me, love it and would never consider carrying one.
>For starters, you don't have to worry about it breaking down, finding
>white gas, kerosene, etc., and it also saves > 1lb. in weight (stove+fuel+
>fuel bottle+pot). As for hot type foods being lighter than cold type foods,
>I did a little study about a year ago, where I went through the supermarket
>and wrote down cals/oz. as well as nutritional content for a wide
>variety of foods (rice, pasta, grapenuts, granola, snickers, TVP, etc.).
>I then formulated a little dynamic programming problem - hooey, a practical
>use for math! :) - where I found the set of foods that maximized cals/oz
>while achieving my desired distribution of complex carbs/sugar/protein/fat.
>Anyway, I didn't find any significant difference between hot and cold foods,
>so I went with the cold.
>
>So far, I have done two 4+ month hikes stoveless- the AT, and my hike
>across Tibet and the Himalayas, and I have never noticed a lack of energy
>from eating cold food vs. hot food (even the infamous corn pasta).
>It definitely limits your food variety, though, and isn't for everyone...
>
>mark
>* From the Pacific Crest Trail Email List | For info
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>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 08:11:29 -0700
>From: Ted Williams <TedWi@Attachmate.com>
>Subject: [pct-l] Re: Going Stoveless
>
>As with all food matters, it all comes down to personal preference. My
>wife and I are taking a stove with us on our PCT hike this summer, but
>we only plan to use it for one meal a day. Most all of our food is
>finger food. It wouldn't surprise me a bit if we ditch the stove half
>way thru. Our menu contain over 30 nutritious foods, only about 5 of
>them require cooking. The rest taste great without cooking. We could
>certainly eat happily and nutritiously without a stove, but for us
>there's nothing like a hot meal at the end of a long day.
>
>The only draw back to cooking food (aside from the weight) is KP. We've
>solved that problem by cooking all of our food in heavy duty zipper
>freezer bags. They work great for cooking pasta, chili, rice, bulgar,
>spagetti sauce, or any of the "Just add water" entrees. It also makes
>it a lot easier to save leftovers for breakfast.
>
>As my sister and I say, "Everything taste after a long hike, even warm
>DIRT." :)
>
>Do what feels good!
>
>TednDeb
>PCT Class of 1998
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>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 10:32:56 -0500
>From: "Ryan K. Brooks" <ryan@inc.net>
>Subject: [pct-l] [Fwd: Going Stoveless submission from ["Joe Sobinovsky"
<sobinovsky@email.msn.com>]]
>
>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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>Subject: BOUNCE pct-l@saffron.hack.net: Non-member submission from ["Joe
Sobinovsky" <sobinovsky@email.msn.com>]
>
>>From owner-pct-l Wed May 6 04:02:26 1998
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>Message-ID: <001e01bd78cd$cc445120$c2b82299@default>
>From: "Joe Sobinovsky" <sobinovsky@email.msn.com>
>To: <pct-l@saffron.hack.net>
>Subject: Going stoveless
>Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 02:02:39 -0700
>X-Priority: 3
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>
>On Tue, 5 May 1998 Ajax wrote:
>
>>I am considering going without my stove, pot, and fuel to save weight and
>room in
>>the pack (this would also eliminate the previously mentioned dilemma).
>Does
>>anyone have experience doing this over a sort-of extended period (I'll be
>out 4
>>weeks)?
>
>I did the whole PCT without a stove and never even missed it. Just carry
>plenty of candy bars, ham (even in the desert), cheese and hamburger buns
>(they seem to hold up better in a pack than sliced bread). It's the only
>way to go.
>
>Joe
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>- --------------B883B363687E3E51088E3F20--
>
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>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 08:49:14 -0700
>From: Brick Robbins <brick@ix.netcom.com>
>Subject: [pct-l] stoves, airlines and campfires, dehy chilli
>
>Carrying stoves on airplanes:
> the FAA regs are about carrying hazardous
> materials on airplanes, NOT about carrying
> stoves. The airlines have insituted the no stove
> rules just to be on the safe side. Also the
> discrepancy Craig noted between what the
> reservation line said and the folks at the gate
> and/or security say can be attributed to the vast
> number of gov't rules and regs that the low paid
> airline employee is not keeping them straight: They
> can't get in trouble for being too safe. The Value Jet
> Florida crash still looms heavey in the industry.
>
> FWIW, domestic checked bagage is not regularly
> x-rayed (though it can be) so if you put your pack
> inside a duffel (so they don't ask "do you have camping
> gear") with an empty stove you should have no
> problems. I would not advise lying to the agent.
>
>Zip Stoves
> The legal status of zip stoves is addressed on
> http://www.sierrawilderness.com/forest_rules.html
> It seems that both Zip Stoves and petrochemical
> stoves are both classified as "Stove fires." At least
> in the Inyo National Forest.
>
>Stoveless Travel
> <Flame suit on> I hiked from Campo to Ashland w/o
> a stove. I did carry a 16 fl oz alumium pot and a plastic
> bowl with tight lid. I found in So-Cal, I generally did not
> want hot food, so I just soaked my de-hy chilli in the
> water tight bowl for a couple of hours and ate it cold.
> Not bad. In the desert, I put it in the top of my pack
> during the day and had hot meals!
>
> In the colder areas, I cooked on a SMALL
> cook fire in existing fire rings. I seldom cooked where
> I camped so stealth camping was not a problem. A
> small cook fire should not be confused with a traditional
> campfire due to the extremely small amount of wood
> used and the short duration of the fire. No LNT flames
> please.....
>
>craig giffen wrote:
> >>p.s. Speaking of cooking, DON'T let any PCT hiker
> give you dehydrated chili. <<
>
> Craig, You never told me you didn't like the chilli!!! <gdr>
> Why do you think I was giving it away?!?!?!?!?!
>* From the Pacific Crest Trail Email List | For info
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>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 09:06:48 -0700
>From: Dave Gomberg <gomberg@wcf.com>
>Subject: Re: [pct-l] Re: Going Stoveless
>
>At 08:11 AM 5/6/1998 -0700, Ted Williams wrote:
>>Most all of our food is finger food. Our menu contain over 30 nutritious
>foods,
>>only about 5 of them require cooking.
>
>Gee, Ted, please share your list of 30 foods! Thanks. Dave
>
>- --
>Dave Gomberg mailto:gomberg@wcf.com
>FormMaestro <http://www.wcf.com>
>- -----------------------------------------------------------------
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>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 10:03:49 -0700
>From: bjensen4@juno.com (Birgitte Jensen)
>Subject: [pct-l] LNT-(small)"flame"(of short duration)
>
>
>> a small cook fire should not be confused with a traditional
>> campfire due to the extremely small amount of wood
>> used and the short duration of the fire. No LNT flames please.....
>
> Sorry, an open-fire is an open-fire according to the FS and general
>common-sense. No "confusion" there. Obviously, subjective variables like
>"small amounts" of wood, "short" durations of flame, "traditonal" or
>new-fangled, (or whether the purpose is to cook-a-meal or
>warm-the-backside or soul) can't be optional in determining whether to
>build a fire in a No Fires zone, for instance - c'mon :->..... bj
>
>
>_____________________________________________________________________
>You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
>Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
>Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
>* From the Pacific Crest Trail Email List | For info
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>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 10:11:04 -0700
>From: Dave Gomberg <gomberg@wcf.com>
>Subject: Re: [pct-l] LNT-(small)"flame"(of short duration)
>
>The trail Nazis have this one right. Rules are their big thing!
>
>At 10:03 AM 5/6/1998 -0700, Birgitte Jensen wrote:
>>
>>> a small cook fire should not be confused with a traditional
>>> campfire due to the extremely small amount of wood
>>> used and the short duration of the fire. No LNT flames please.....
>>
>> Sorry, an open-fire is an open-fire according to the FS and general
>>common-sense. No "confusion" there. Obviously, subjective variables like
>>"small amounts" of wood, "short" durations of flame, "traditonal" or
>>new-fangled, (or whether the purpose is to cook-a-meal or
>>warm-the-backside or soul) can't be optional in determining whether to
>>build a fire in a No Fires zone, for instance - c'mon :->..... bj
>>
>>
>>_____________________________________________________________________
>>You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
>>Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
>>Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
>>* From the Pacific Crest Trail Email List | For info
>http://www.hack.net/lists *
>>
>>
>
>- --
>Dave Gomberg mailto:gomberg@wcf.com
>FormMaestro <http://www.wcf.com>
>- -----------------------------------------------------------------
>* From the Pacific Crest Trail Email List | For info
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>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 11:25:32 -0700
>From: "Bill Deutschman" <olcbill@cdsnet.net>
>Subject: Re: [pct-l] Re: pct-l-digest V1 #470
>
>>I once knew a fellow who worked as a baggage loader for the airlines. He
>>quit because his peers were frequently sifting through baggage, keeping
>>whatever appealed to them at the time. "It was like a shopping spree," he
>>once commented
>
>We have shipped our backpacks to Europe (4 plane changes each way) for the
>last six years and have had no problems. I pack the stove inside the pots
>in my pack and we carry the fuel bottle on the plane with us filled with
>water. It is our "drinking water"!! I use a Whisperlite and let it sit in
>the sun for several days with the "bike cable" pulled out so all fuel has
>evaporated.
>
>Our packs are not enclosed in anything. We tighten all the straps and tie
>the shoulder straps together. I then use the small white cable ties that
>you get a Radio Shack to "lock" all zippered pockets closed. I know it wont
>stop a dedicated thief but it keeps the casual baggage handler from opening
>the pockets to see what is inside. They are hard to see so you are not
>"advertising" that the pack is locked and hence drawing attention to it. I
>find that it takes me about 30 seconds to open each cable when I already
>have a clippers so it will take someone else a lot longer than that if they
>aren't prepared. Just remember to have a fingernail clipper, knife or some
>other way to open them when you get off the plane and pack enough spares so
>that you can "lock" your pack at the other end.
>
>Hope this provides some help and good luck on the trail.
>
>bill
>Bill Deutschman
>Oregon Laser Consultants
>455 Hillside Avenue
>Klamath Falls ( about 20 minutes by car from the trail), OR 97601-2337
>olcbill@cdsnet.net
>
>
>
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>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 12:49:28 -0700
>From: Brick Robbins <brick@ix.netcom.com>
>Subject: [pct-l] fwd: Going stoveless
>
>Subject: BOUNCE pct-l@saffron.hack.net: Non-member submission from ["Joe
>Sobi
>novsky" <sobinovsky@email.msn.com>]
>From: "Joe Sobinovsky" <sobinovsky@email.msn.com>
>To: <pct-l@saffron.hack.net>
>Subject: Going stoveless
>Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 02:02:39 -0700
>On Tue, 5 May 1998 Ajax wrote:
>
>>I am considering going without my stove, pot, and fuel to save weight and
>room in
>>the pack (this would also eliminate the previously mentioned dilemma).
>Does
>>anyone have experience doing this over a sort-of extended period (I'll be
>out 4
>>weeks)?
>
>I did the whole PCT without a stove and never even missed it. Just carry
>plenty of candy bars, ham (even in the desert), cheese and hamburger buns
>(they seem to hold up better in a pack than sliced bread). It's the only
>way to go.
>
>Joe
>* From the Pacific Crest Trail Email List | For info
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>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 13:23:58 -0700
>From: Greg Hummel <ghummel@hydrogenburner.com>
>Subject: Re: [pct-l] LNT-(small)"flame"(of short duration)
>
>At 10:11 AM 5/6/98 -0700, you wrote:
>>The trail Nazis have this one right. Rules are their big thing!
>
>
>Dave,
>
>Can we please refrain from using incendiary language such as "Trail Nazis"
>on the list. I think you merely insight heated emotions unnecessarily by
>labeling with reference to the military regime that denied personal
>expression and followed madness blindly. The people on this list are not
>mindless, blind, military in behavior or wanting to deny anyone's
>expression and are only expressing their points of view in the interest of
>preserving the numerous values evident on the PCT and surrounding wild,
>semi wild and down right urban areas.
>
>Your kind understanding will be most highly regarded by all.
>
>Greg "Strider" Hummel
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>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 21:58:18 +0000
>From: Roy & Tracy <royharper@tinet.ie>
>Subject: [pct-l] Looking for weights.....
>
>Hi,
>
>I'm looking to replace a few items in my pack based on the fact that they are
>worn out from years of use and then an AT thru-hike on top of that. Of course
>most of this gear has held up very well and will probably actually get handed
>down or used to fill a spare pack in the event that I tire of solo backpacking
>(fat chance!). My main focus is on working towards a lighter load oz by oz.
>
>Anyway, maybe some of you can help to answer a few questions for me.
>
>What is the price tag on MSR's titanium cookset and fuel bottle? I have found
>it advertised here and there on the internet but it never has a price with it.
>
>What is the weight for:
>
>....the individual pieces of the MSR Alpine Cookset? I've always carried the
>1.5 liter pot, lid, and pot holder.
>
>....the original (purple) therm-a-rest ultralite full length self-inflating
mattress?
>
>....the flat 4.5 volt batteries used in the Petzl headlamp?
>
>And finally, has anyone had any problems with the Platypus water bottles or
hosers?
>
>tia,
>
>Tracy
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>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 13:07:28 -0800
>From: "ALAN T. JULLIARD" <OTATJ@library.ci.anchorage.ak.us>
>Subject: [pct-l] RE: going stoveless?
>
> I'll throw my 2 cents into the stoveless discussion.
>
> I did the stoveless thing on my AT attempt in 1974 and made it 1000 miles or
>so. This was with a late March Georgia start and I had a fair amount of
>freezing weather and snowstorms. I was carrying a mere 1 pound of non-cook
>foods per day and it is amazing that I did not starve to death; in fact, I had
>a lot of energy but then I was only 19 and had way too much energy anyway. I
>supplemented in towns (though not easily: I was carrying less than $50 in cash
>which had to last a long way) but mainly I supplemented my diet by preying on
>other hikers at the shelters (you know, stare longingly at their meals until
>they take pity and share with me; this worked especially well with weekenders
>heading out as they would not have to carry out their excess). I was carrying
>a Sierra cup (metal) to heat water up on fires for hot chocolate, the only food
>I had that could be heated. Mainly, my food consisted of the exact same thing
>everyday: granola, candy bars, peanut butter, biscuits (European style sweet
>biscuits). It worked, but on my PCT hike the next year, I took a stove and a
>variety of meals to cook.
> I would have a hard time doing it now on a long term basis. I still take
>overnight hikes where I go stoveless/cookless but for longer hikes, I enjoy hot
>food. One of my current problems with it is finding non-cook foods that I like
>and will eat, as I care little for sweet trail foods these days and crave salty
>foods. The sole exception to this generalization is I can take a long summer
>trip (a week or two) eating nothing but cereal and powdered milk. I am not
>sure why this works for me but I done it very successfully even here in Alaska,
>where the weather is usually crappy, just done being crappy or about to be
>crappy. Then too there is the addiction to coffee; cold coffee just does't
>make it, and until they have expresso stands all along the PCT...well, the
>withdrawal might be worst than the cure of just carrying a stove.
>
>Alan
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>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: 6 May 1998 14:24:40 -0800
>From: "Alan Grubbs" <grubbs@Agouron.COM>
>Subject: [pct-l] Tales from the trail.
>
>To the readers:
>
>I recently read a journal entry about a trip on the PCT and found it to be a
>really neat way share experiences and enjoy the trail. I thought I would sit
>down and compile some recollections of my trip so far from the MEX. border to
>Lost valley road, outside Warner Springs. I appologize to those who are
>uninterested.
>
>I was born in San Diego and have always wanted to hike the PCT, and have found
>that short weekend trips are the only feasable way to start, time permitting.
>I started my trip with a Hungarian friend that had already hiked most the
>length of the AT. The border and southern most point of the PCT was a
>fantastic place to ponder the length of trail and breadth of adventure that
>lie beyond the horizon and around each new bend of the single dirt path to
>Canada. We were armed with left over pizza wrapped in tin foil and 4 quarts
>of water each. It was 5:00am in the morning when we set off down the trail
>past the detention camp that my brother visited for a few months back in high
>school. The first sign we saw was on the road that leads down the a turn off
>to Tecate, Mexico, a place I had visited a few times back in high school.
>Crossing the road we headed into a chapparal lined ravine with a small creek,
>still flowing in mid summer. A few turns and a hill or two later lead to a
>traverse on a hill side with views back down to the telephone lines that
>parallel the Mex. border, and a few houses down in the praire. My hat is off
>to those who can find the time to take off and complete the PCT non-stop.
>What a feeling. The next few miles led up to a plateau and across a ridge
>where the trail zigged and zagged down the canyon on Hauser Creek. Passing a
>metal gate, the trail was directed right on a dirt road leading down to the
>canyon floor. The view of the Hauser Mountain was awesome, the trail could be
>seen crossing the hillside up towards Lake Morena. My hike down the dirt path
>was interupted by jeep headed up the path. I figured that I would step off
>the path to let the jeep pass by. Just my luck that it was border patrol.
>They stopped, guns pointed, immediatly and yelled in Spanish, sientate!
>Apparently they thought that I was an undocumented mexican crossing into the
>U.S. or a drug smuggler. They were wrong on one account. Just kidding. With
>my freedom and nerves now intact, I continued into the canyon and took an
>hour nap by the creek. The switch backs up the 1000ft grade to lake Morena
>was brutal. 100+ deg. and no shade. The plateau at the top lead through a
>maze of fisherman trails to the lake and finally at 5-6 pm. we were back at
>the parking lot of Lake Morena, a beautiful lake resort and sensible place to
>park for those interested in the PCT by weekends.
>
>Take care. This is getting too long so I will postpone the next leg, from
>Lake Morena to Bolder Oaks campground next time.
>
>Alan.
>
>P.S. To those who wrote about the stove: Left over pizza is great trail
>food. I have done my hike so far without a stove. Almost everthing I have
>taken so far has been available at 7-11, ie. wrapped bagels and sandwiches.
>
>
>
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>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 14:58:51 -0700
>From: Ted Williams <TedWi@Attachmate.com>
>Subject: [pct-l] Extended Food List
>
>The following is our extended list of trail tested foods. For our hike
>this summer we chose only our favorites (about 35) and tried to keep a
>balanced diet. We eat the dehydrated fruits and veggies as is, since
>rehydrating never seems to go very well. If anyone is interested in our
>actual quantities, let me know and I'll send you an RTF file.
>
>TednDeb
>
>
>p.s. sorry for the lengthy post
>
>
>
>Description
>
>Apple Cider, Instant
>Apples,dried
>Bananas, raw
>Beans, Refried
>Bread, Banana
>Bread, Logan
>Carrots, dehydrated
>Cereal, Corn Chex
>Cereal, Cream of Wheat
>Cereal, Oatmeal
>Cheese, Cheddar
>Cheese, Parmesan
>Cheese, Sauce
>Cherries, dried
>Chili, Beef
>Chili, Turkey
>Chips, Bagel
>Chips, Corn
>Chips, Potato
>Chocolate Pudding
>Cookies, Newtons Fig
>Cookies, Oreos
>Cookies, Chocolate Chip
>Corn, dried
>Crackers, Graham
>Crackers, Assorted
>cranberries, dried
>Crystal Lite
>Dates
>Fruit Leather, Apple
>Fruit Leather, Straw & Banana
>Fruit Leather, Assorted
>Gatorade
>Granola, Bar Chewy
>Granola, loose
>Granola, NutriGrain Bars
>Gravy
>Ground Turkey (Taco Meat)
>Hummus
>Jello
>Jerky, Beef
>Jerky, Chicken
>Jerky, Turkey
>Jerky, Smoked Salmon
>Olive Oil
>Pasta, Corn
>Pasta, Stuffed
>Pasta, Wheat
>Peanut Butter
>Peanuts
>Pears, Dried
>Peas, Dried
>Pineapple, Dried
>Potatoes, Instant
>Powdered Milk
>Pretzels
>Ramen, baked
>Ramen, fried
>Rasins
>Rice, Instant Brown
>Salami, Beef
>Salami, Turkey
>Salsa
>Sausage, Dried Turkey
>Season Salt
>Soup, Instant w/ Veggies
>Spagetti Sauce, Dried
>Strawberries, Dried
>Stuffing
>Tabouli
>Tea, Herb
>Tomatoes, Dried
>Tortillas
>Tuna
>Yogart, Dried
>
>
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>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 15:22:41 -0700
>From: bjensen4@juno.com (Birgitte Jensen)
>Subject: [pct-l] "open" campfires-confusion
>
> S'me again! I just got a mail chiding me for posting that a
>(non-stove) campfire was an Open Fire, so thought I oughta elaborate.
>There *are* some places that require all fires be built within existing
>fire rings - they have particular stove-use rules as well. The Campfire
>designation refers to *any kind* of non-stove fire - fire ring (or big/
>little, quickie/all-night, 4 cooking or just dreamily watching dancing
>flames, etc) or no.
>I wasn't trying to suggest that Brick flouts fire regulations, only
>chiding him for implying that fire-regs didn't apply to small "cookfires"
>as opposed to more ambitious ones...
> Sorry if confusion resulted from my post.... bj
>
>_____________________________________________________________________
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>------------------------------
>
>End of pct-l-digest V1 #475
>***************************
>
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>
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