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[pct-l] Re: pct-l-digest V1 #416
pct-l-digest wrote:> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 23:15:23 -0500
> From: John Drollette <tamarag@tiac.net>
> Subject: [none]
>
> Jeremy helped me out quite a bit by reviewing my gear list. (Thanks very
> much, Jeremy!) At his suggestion, I post it here, 'cause I know the rest of
> you '98ers are pondering the same questions... :-) Hope it helps.
>
> Remember: It's not a gear thing. Think about the gear now so you don't
> have to think about it this summer.
>
> Oh yeah -- this is about a lightweight system. As has been beat to death
> here and elsewhere, this approach is certainly not for everyone, and it is
> better to evolve into it of your own experience rather than unquestioningly
> adopt it wholesale.
>
> See you on the Trail!
> John
>
> >Date: Thu, 05 Mar 1998 12:38:08 -0700 (PDT)
> >From: riceje@AURORA.CWU.EDU
> >Subject: Re: pct gear list
> >To: tamarag@tiac.net
> >Cc: riceje@AURORA.CWU.EDU
> >
> >On Wed, 4 Mar 1998 tamarag@tiac.net wrote:
> >
> >> Thanks! I look forward to hearing your feedback! I would love to hear a
> >> lightweight perspective, so please bring it on! I go very light, so I'm
> >> frustrated that my base PCT packweight is 19.25 lbs. and holding.
> >> Basically, except for the footwear and the bag/tent (although my winter
> >> bag/tent are very light too), this list is pretty much my standard
> >> New Hampshire winter backpacking/climbing kit.
> >>
> >> Basically a big part of the ultralight method is timing (especially on
> >> a PCT thru-hike, apparently). I'm resigned that huge amounts of
> >> lingering snow and the very real possibility of spring El Nino storms
> >> are going to trump this. For this year, maybe a 19lb pack isn't bad.
> >>
> >> Getting a digital scale really helped get me down from the 25 lbs that I
> >> finished the AT with (including 0 degree bag), but I just can't see where
> >> to go from here with the PCT gear. Sorry to ramble -- thanks!
> >>
> >> At 06:54 PM 3/3/98 -0700, you wrote:
> >> >I couldn't get your attachment, please email it to me. Don't worry about
> >> >rambling on, a light pack takes a lot of thinking and rambling. Just
> >> >from your intro, I think I'll be able to make some suggestions. Can't
> >> >wait to see the list.
> >> >
> >> >Jeremy
> >> >
> >>
> >> Item Weight (oz.)
> >> PACK
> >> Osprey Impala (w/ hipbelt) 3200in3 44
> >
> >I've heard this is a great pack and it has a good weight, too.
> >
> >> Trash bag 3
> >
> >I assume this is a "pack cover". How waterproof is your pack? I used 2 OR
> >waterproof stuffsacks for my sleeping bag (down) and clothes. I stuck
> >all my small stuff in the top pocket in a quart-size ziploc, just in
> >case. This was all I needed until I got to "rainy" Washington, when I
> >also added a large garbage bag on the inside of my pack, just to make
> >sure everything stayed dry. Get the toughest one you can find. Save 3 oz.
> >>
> >> COOK
> >> Cookpot, lid & stuffsack 8.7
> >
> >If you went with a 1.3 liter titanium pot, your weight would be 6 ounces
> >including pot, lid, handle, lighter, and spoon. That would save you 4-5 oz.
> >
> >> MSR Whisperlight w/ pump, reflectors 14
> >
> >This is the stove I brought (Whisperlite Int.), but the Trangia 28
> >alcohol stove is only 6 oz. and the fuel is available at most places.
> >That would save you 8 ounces.
> >
> >> Lighter, stove kit, spoon, grippers 3.1
> >
> >Is the stove kit the repair kit? Try and take the minimum repair parts
> >possible. Keep the rest in your "drift" box. Save 2 oz.
> >
> >> 22 oz aluminum bottle w/ duct tape 7
> >
> >Use the 11 oz fuel bottle. Keep the 22 oz bottle for the High Sierras
> >portion of the trip (Kennedy Meadows to Tuolumne). The rest of the
> >sections are short enough to get away with an 11 oz bottle if you only
> >cook one meal a day. You can find someone to split fuel with at most
> >resupply points. This will save you 3 oz.
> >
> >> Foodbag w/ rope, P-51, vitamins 3
> >
> >Many people don't use food bags that much. I never had to worry about
> >small animals and 95% of the time I didn't hang my food. If you stealth
> >camp, that is, not camp at established sites, not eat dinner where you
> >sleep, and not camp near water, you shouldn't have problems with animals
> >at night. Also, have you seen the Kelty triptease line? It's 1 oz for
> >50 feet, and you could get away with 25 I would imagine. Use your
> >sleeping bag stuffsack for a food bag. Always look for ways to not bring
> >"extra" gear. P-51 and vitamins are good ideas. This should save you 2 oz.
> >
> >> Spice bag: salt, garlic/onion, Mexi 3
> >
> >Bring only enough spices for each section. Keep the rest in your drift
> >box. This should save you 1 oz.
> >
> >> 1 liter soda bottle 1.6
> >> 3 2.5 liter Platypuses 5
> >> Platypus, 1L 0.8
> >
> >Bring 8 liters total capacity. I preferred 3 2.5-liter platypuses with
> >one platypus hooked up to the platypus hydration system. That was my first
> >time using a hydration system and I absolutely loved it. I still use that
> >system while hiking, cross-country skiing, and snowshoeing. It's
> >especially nice for desert hiking when you have to drink copious amounts
> >of water. With the 2.5 liter hydration system, you can go for 2-3 hours
> >without stopping for water if you want. For a 20 mile waterless stretch
> >(quite common), I would suggest carrying 6 liters of water for
> >drinking. Eventually, you will probably be able to get away with less
> >than this. Just make sure you drink a lot when you get to a water
> >source. Never carry water for cooking. Always cook at a water source,
> >even in the middle of the afternoon. I have some desert hiking tips on
> >the ALDHA-west web site under tips and techniques. Also, duct tape
> >works good for patching up small holes in the platypuses. That whole system
> >is about 6 oz., so that would save you 1.5 oz.
> >
> >> PUR Hiker 11.6
> >
> >Excellent filter. You might consider switching to just iodine through
> >the High Sierras. Most of the water is very nice! This would save you
> >12 oz while going through the "heaviest" section of the trip. Remember
> >to use their one-year guarentee. My brother and I went through 5 filters.
> >
> >>
> >> CLOTHING
> >> Shorts & T shirt (worn)
> >
> >I liked nylon hiking shorts w/liner and coolmax t-shirts.
> >
> >>
> >> Silkweight Capilene pants 4.6
> >
> >I brought these, but never used them, even in the High Sierras. My legs
> >were always warm enough just wearing my nylon pants. As long as you have
> >windproof pants and warm clothes on your torso and head, you shouldn't
> >need too much warmth on your legs. Save 4.6 oz.
> >
> >> Silkweight Capilene longsleeve crew 5
> >
> >I only used this in the High Sierras and Washington. Too warm for the
> >rest of the trip. Save 5 oz most parts.
> >
> >> Thermax shirt 7.2
> >
> >I brought a polartec 100 fleece pullover that weighed 10 oz. I found
> >this the most versatile piece of clothing I had. I could use it without
> >the capilene shirt for most of the trip. I could also use it as a
> >"windbreaker". It had a special anti-bacterial coating on the inside
> >so that I could wear it without a shirt underneath if I wanted. The
> >combination of my lightweight capilene, t-shirt, fleece pullover, hat, and
> >gloves kept me warm enough in both the High Sierras and Washington.
> Washington
> >is probably colder than the High Sierras, so make sure you have some warm
> >clothes for the end of the trip. Add 3 oz.
> >
> >> Powerstretch fleece balaclava 1.3
> >
> >I haven't tried this product, but I want to check them out.
> >
> >> Thick fleece hat 3.3
> >
> >I wouldn't bring both the balaclava and the fleece hat. Bring the
> >warmest one. You can probably get away with just the balaclava if it's
> >warm enough. Save 3.3 oz.
> >
> >> Powerstretch fleece gloves 1.1
> >
> >Sounds good. Some people saved weight by wearing their extra pair of
> >socks for "mittens", but I prefer lightweight fleece gloves.
> >
> >>
> >> Sun hat 4
> >
> >Aren't you going to be wearing this the whole time? Don't include in
> >pack weight. You'll wear this the whole time you're in California. I
> >used a wide-brimmed Columbia hat that was good for both sun and rain for
> >the whole trip.
> >
> >> DriClime Windshirt 10.5
> >
> >See above comments. Just to make things clear, here's all the clothes I
> >brought.
> >
> >Clothes I had the whole trip:
> >
> >shorts
> >t-shirt
> >crew socks (2 pr spare) 4 oz
> >polartec 100 fleece (microfleece?) pullover 10 oz
> >nylon pants 10 oz
> >w/b jacket 19 oz
> >windblock fleece hat 3.5 oz
> >fleece gloves 1.5 oz
> >
> >total weight in pack: 48 oz
> >
> >Extra clothes in High Sierras and Washington:
> >
> >lightweight capilene top 6 oz
> >waterproof socks 3 oz
> >1 pr liners 1 oz
> >1 pr lightweight merlino wool socks 2 oz
> >
> >total weight of all clothes in pack: 60 oz
> >
> >Like I said, I used my fleece for a windbreaker. If the wind was really
> >cold, like in Washington, I wore my w/b jacket for a windbreaker. This
> >saves you 10.5 oz.
> >
> >> Polyester microfiber windpants 10
> >
> >Sounds good. Might be nylon pants on the market that weigh less than this.
> >
> >> Gore-tex jacket (w/ pitzips) 19.9
> >
> >You might consider going with some sort of lightweight activent jacket
> >for most of California and Oregon. There is very little precipitation in
> >both these states while you will be hiking through them. At most, an
> >afternoon thunderstorm. I remember only 5-6 days with precipitation in
> >the first 3 1/2 months of the trip! Use your gore-tex in the High Sierras
> >and Washington (especially). You could probably get away with not having
> >the gore-tex in the High Sierras, but once in a while a summer storm
> >moves in and dumps snow for a couple days. It depends upon how
> >comfortable you are taking this risk. Snow does'nt get things as wet as
> >rain does though. Another option is to get those cheap "packable" rain
> >jackets from Sierra Designs or Mountain Hardware that are only 12 ounces,
> >but not really breathable. I know a coule of hikers that used these for
> >CA and OR and didn't have a problem with them. When I do the hike again,
> >I'm only going to bring a real w/b jacket for WA. Save 7 oz.
> >
> >>
> >> 3 pair polypro liner socks 3
> >
> >My brother wore these once in a while. You might need to double them
> >up. They dry really fast, so you can easily wash them every day.
> >
> >> Running shoes (worn)
> >
> >Running shoes are great. I even wore mine through the High Sierras with
> >no problem. Just make sure you have an ice axe. I found it was VERY
> >important to not use your shoes too long. I would suggest a maximum of
> >500 miles on each pair. You don't want to screw your feet up by not
> >switching to new shoes every 500 miles. You often don't know that your feet
> >are in trouble until it's too late!
> >
> >> Low gaiters (worn)
> >
> >Have you seen the gaitors that are only 1-2 oz? There is an address for
> >them in the PCTA archives. I never wore gaitors except in the snow. I
> >wish I had the lightweight ones. I had the low OR gaitors and they weigh
> >4 oz. The lightweight ones would be nice for keeping the dirt out in
> >Southern California.
> >
> >>
> >> SLEEP
> >> DryLoft 20 degree down mummy 30
> >
> >Very nice. Feathered Friends?
> >
> >> "Waterproof" stuff sack w/ trash bag 4.2
> >
> >This sounds heavy. That's 1/7 the weight of your sleeping bag! My OR
> >waterproof hydroseal "basic" stuffsack was about 2.5 oz. Like I said,
> >you should rarely encounter precipitation in CA and OR if you leave after
> >May 1. Save the trash bag for WA. Save 1.5 oz.
> >
> >> Deluxe Ridgerest (cut down) 7.8
> >
> >Is this the full length or 3/4? I used a regular 3/4 ridgerest and stuck my
> >empty pack (after using spare clothes for pillow and taking out food)
> >under my lower legs and feet. After modifying, it is 6-7 oz.
> >
> >>
> >> SHELTER
> >> Eureka Gossamer w/ guylines, stuffsack 48
> >
> >Seriously consider using a tarp or bivy sack for CA and OR. The first
> >time it rained at night for us wasn't until northern OR! That is how dry
> >the southern 3/4 of this trip is. We only had problems with bugs near
> >Vermillion Valley Resort, Tuolumne Meadows and a little in OR. Bring a
> >headnet (I like the kind with an aluminum band around it to keep it off
> >the face) to sleep with and you'll be fine. My brother and I slept out
> >under the stars for most of the first 3/4 of the trip. This might be a
> >new experience for you, but it's great! I would use the tent in
> >Washington because of rain, wind, and cold at that time of the year (late
> >September). A tarp could be a pound or less. Use Kelty triptease line
> >and titanium stakes. The whole setup will be maybe 20 oz. Save 30 oz.
> >
> >> 6 Titanium stakes 2.8
> >> space blanket groundcloth 4.2
> >
> >These are good groundcloths. Consider switching to tyvek to save
> >weight. Pare the groundcloth down as much as possible to save weight.
> >
> >>
> >> MISCELLANEOUS
> >> Ditty Bags with: 9.7
> >> AAA flashlight and small Swiss Army Knife
> >> Sewing Kit
> >> Heavy & medium needle
> >> Heavy nylon thread
> >> Safety Pins
> >
> >This sounds excellent. Is this the mini-mag solitaire that only takes
> >one AAA battery? These work great. Dont' forget a spare AAA battery and a
> >spare camera battery. I assume that this is the Swiss Army Classic
> >knife. You don't need anything more than this. I would bring a couple
> >spare flashlight batteries if you are planning to do any night hiking
> >while in Southern California. This is really fun, and it's a lot cooler
> >than during the day!
> >
> >> First Aid Kit
> >> Advil
> >> Moleskin
> >> triple antibotic ointment
> >> a few bandaids
> >
> >Looks good. I prefer "vitamin I", but whatever works. I also found a
> >supply of anti-diarrhea pills to come in handy. Sometimes the 'ol body
> >doesn't like that town food once you get on the trail!
> >
> >> Glacier goggles
> >
> >I assume you mean sunglasses? Glacier goggles are overkill, even in the
> >High Sierras. You can always fashion some side protectors out of duct
> >tape if you feel you need them. I never did. Sunglasses and a
> >wide-brimmed hat are very important in Southern California because there
> >is rarely shade and no clouds.
> >
> >> "Wallet ziplock"
> >> Film
> >> Toothbrush w/ travel-sized paste
> >> Lip balm
> >> Sunscreen
> >> TP
> >> Emergency firestarter
> >> Headnet
> >
> >You might consider a couple other "ten essential" items like a dozen
> >stormproof matches and a lightweight whistle like the Fox Fire 40. Never
> >know when you might need these. Also, a small packtowel comes in handy.
> >Add 1.5 oz.
> >
> >>
> >> Ice axe w/ cord wrist leash 15.3
> >
> >I used the Cassin Dragonfly which was 12 oz and didn't bother with a
> >leash. If you drop the axe while trying to self-arrest, you're screwed!
> >Hang onto that thing at all costs. This will mostly be on your
> >pack anyways, and you'll only use it while traversing steep hills or going
> >over passes. If you don't know how to self-arrest, practice when you get
> >to the first gentle snow hill.
> >
> >> Ziplock containing: 3.4
> >> Guidebook pages
> >> Compass
> >> Journal pages, stamps, pen
> >
> >Sounds good. Bring the lightest compass possible because you'll rarely
> >need it. I mostly used mine for the guidebook directions. Use the topos
> >in the High Sierras.
> >
> >> Camera 8
> >>
> >> TOTAL (oz) 308
> >> TOTAL (lbs) 19 1/4 lbs
> >>
> >> At Kennedy Meadows, I was going to pick up:
> >> Midweight Thermax pants 6.9
> >> Gore-tex shell gloves 2.3
> >> "Dayhiker" boots (worn)
> >> 1 pair wool socks 3.4
> >> Gore-tex socks 3
> >
> >Let me first say that the High Sierra are a very mild range (even in the
> >winter). During the summer it is hot up there! You will likely be
> >wearing just your t-shirt and shorts for most of the day. This range is
> >not like the White mountains in the winter. Even at 13,000 feet it's not
> >too bad, usually just windy. Daytime temperatures are often in the 70s
> >and nightime temps rarely drop below 30. It's really quite comfortable
> >at most times of the day. The only time you'll get precip is if a freak
> >storm moves in for a couple days (which did happen last year from June
> >13-15) and drops some snow. It's still possible to keep moving during these
> >though. I've already discussed what I'd bring in the High Sierras. The
> >only thing I had to add was my lightweight capilene top, lightweight
> >wool socks (which I put on when my feet got cold, and while sleeping),
> >waterproof socks, and a pair of liner socks to wear with them. I like the
> >lightweight merlino wool socks because they aren't itchy and you can
> >wear them without liners if you want. They are also lighter than
> >regular wool socks. When it was at it's coldest, I simply wore every
> >piece of clothing I had with me. This was pretty rare. It's
> >only really cold after the sun goes down. Don't plan on making as many
> >miles through the High Sierra, say 15-20. Get in your sleeping bag once
> >it really cools down and you'll be fine with hardly any cold-weather
> >gear. I'm serious, it's not that bad.
> >
> >As far as boots go, I sent some light ones to KM, but never used them and
> >sent them home at Independence. It all depends on how comfortable you
> >are traveling on the snow. Neither my brother and I ever wished we had
> >the boots after we got rid of them. It's much better to have no boots
> >and an ice axe than heavy boots and no ice axe. Boots cannot save your
> life if
> >you slip! I had trail-running shoes that had a stiffer sole and a nice
> >stiff toe box (much better than regular running shoes) so I could kick steps
> >with them alright. Probably not much different than a pair of really
> >lightweight boots, except that thy didn't cover my ankles. Whatever you
> >think will work, go for it. I was glad I still had my running shoes with
> >me so I could get rid of the boots after I figured out I didn't need
> >them. Remember that most likely you will only be traveling on snow for,
> >at most, 5 miles a day (probably less). Running shoes are great for the
> >rest of that "dry" trail. Also, what are you going to do for creek
> >crossings? You have to wear something on your feet for these. Going
> >barefoot is not an option. Were you planning on taking both your shoes
> >and boots? This is a good idea.
> >
> >I think the thermax pants are overkill. Bring the lightweight capilene
> >ones if you are worried. I never found a need for shell gloves. Fleece
> >gloves dry quickly and keep your hands warm while wet. You can usually
> >just brush the snow off of them anyways.
> >
> >>
> >> And I am still trying to figure out if I should send any of the
> >following to KM:
> >> Primaloft Vest 10.2
> >> Down vest 10
> >> Powerstretch fleece top 9.3
> >
> >The fleece top is what I'd bring for the whole trip. I think the rest of
> >the clothes are overkill for the Sierras. Use your sleeping bag if you
> >get too cold in the evening.
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> Instead of the tent, I am considering carrying one of the following items
> >> instead (and pick up the tent at Kennedy Meadows):
> >>
> >> 8'x10' Nylon Tarp w/ guylines 34
> >> or
> >> Bivy Sack w/ stuffsack 23.8
> >>
> >
> >I think you can find a tarp that weighs much less than this. Check out
> >"The Lightweight Backpacker" at backpacker.net and look under
> >the comments section. There's lots of comments on tarps and shelters.
> >Consider using tyvek for your tarp material. Look for tyvek under
> >the comments section of that web site. Also, this tarp size is way too
> >big for one person. Consider a 6x8 or 7x8 size. This will also decrease
> >the weight. I've seen 6x8 ft tarps for as little as 6 ounces. My
> >brother and I only had to set up our tarp a couple times in all of CA and
> >OR.! It will spend most of the time sitting on the bottom of your pack.
> >Most of the time, my brother and I simply found a flat spot, threw down
> >our groundcloth, threw down our sleeping pad and sleeping bags, used our
> >spare clothes for a pillow, put our food between us or at our feet, stuck
> >our empty packs under our feet, and fell asleep. No shelter required!
> >That is why I suggest bringing the lightest shelter possible.
> >
> >There are bivy bags on the market that are lighter than this. Check out
> >"The Lightweight Backpacker". Charles is selling one of his 18 oz Bibler
> >bivy sacks for $150. That's a good alternative for a tent in CA and OR.
> >Feathered Friends has a bivy that's around 19 ounces, I think.
> >
> >
> >
> >Well, here's the totals.
> >
> >
> >For most of the trip:
> >
> >I came up with a total of 207 oz or 12.9 pounds (!) if you use all of my
> >suggestions, including bringing the fleece pullover, the activent jacket and
> >not bringing all the extra clothes you mentioned (basically the list I
> >put down for clothes I always carried), bringing a lightweight tarp,
> >using a titanium pot, switching to trangia 28 stove, etc.
> >
> >For the High Sierras:
> >
> >I came up with a total of 239 or 14.9 pounds if you add a lightweight
> >capilene top and bottom, the gore-tex socks, the wool socks, and the ice
> >axe. If you drop the filter and add the shoes (while wearing boots), this
> >will come out to about 15 pounds total. Add nine days worth of food (at
> >2.5 pounds per day) and you have a 37 pound pack for going from KM to VVR!
> >
> >For Washington:
> >
> >I came up with a total of 267 or 16.7 pounds if you added the tent,
> >gore-tex jacket, lightweight capilene top and bottom, gore-tex socks, and
> >wool socks to your basic pack weight.
> >
> >John, this is a really good gear list, but it appears that you can still
> >drop a few pounds off of it if you make a couple changes to your equipment
> >and don't bring as many clothes. I never found I was too cold on the
> >whole trip as long as I had my w/b jacket, fleece pullover, nylon pants,
> >fleece gloves, and fleece hat.
> >
> >I hope that this helps you. Give me an email about you thoughts on my
> >suggestions, and we can discuss them or any other concerns you have.
> >
> >(You can also post this to the list if you think oth
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