Re: [at-l] posts

[Owen <jrowen@ibm.net>]

TOKTAADN@aol.com wrote:
> 
> I have a few things to say about the lists.  Please don't construe my comments
> as being for or against either of them.  I belong to both lists and don't
> expect that to change.  ATML recently underwent a fundamental change of great
> magnitude.  It seems to be because the at-l is basically leaderless, we have
> been sucked into ATML's vortex and therefore don't have a separate identity
> for the at-l.  I believe the time is ripe for us to give some serious thought
> to what purpose the lists serve and how this list can differentiate itself
> from the ATML.

Solar Bear - 
Since you're a "dual-lister" you have a better idea about how the 2
lists compare than I do.  Since I'm obviously not on ATML (and happily
so), I have no idea how it's changed over the last year or so - if at
all.  The format has probably changed - but what about the content?  

In any case, like Chase and woodelf, I see no "struggle" between the 2
lists.  at-l is the anarchists list - you can say what you want, the way
you want, without worrying about what the list-admin (or anyone else)
thinks ----- within limits.  The limits are simply those dictated by
common sense and courtesy.  I try to consider how I'd feel if someone
said "that" about me.  Whatever "that" is.  And so far it's worked. 
We've handled our own flame wars - for the most part without "official"
help or interference.  And I want to say a very heartfelt "Thank You" to
Ryan for that.  He's only once stepped in as a "policeman" -- and I
think we were ALL grateful for that.  

ATML is a different breed of cat - and while there are a lot of people
who seem to thrive on it, I've always considered the rules there
unnecessarily restrictive.  But it's Wingfoots list and he can set the
rules any way he wants.  But then, if there were no at-l, one of us
would have to start one - for the anarchists among us. :-)

> My take on it -- just to get the ball rolling, feel free to take the
> discussion elsewhere -- is that the lists and Trailplace together form what I
> like to call the University of the Appalachian Trail.  Trailplace represents
> the library, the ATML represents the classroom and the at-l represents the
> rest of the campus where students and teachers mingle informally.  In the
> classroom (ATML) the tone is fairly serious and the focus is on learning and
> rules are in place to maintain that focus.  Outside the classroom (at-l),
> things are unstructured -- no rules -- and a wide range of topics
> inappropriate for the classroom can be discussed, still with a hiking
> perspective -- since we are all hikers here -- but including socializing,
> humor, trip reports, gear talk and whatever else, just in a more relaxed
> manner than the ATML.

I have a somewhat different view of this ---- a year ago, at-l was
nearly defunct. There was nearly zero activity on the list.  I won't go
into the reasons for its resurrection (because I'm not really sure about
them), but I can state categorically that for the previous 6 months (in
1997) there was nearly ZERO information content of any value to the
class of 98 - on either list.  That's why I asked if the content of ATML
had changed.  The content of at-l is not always greatly
"thruhiker-oriented", but there are thruhikers here who actually
contribute to the discussion - and sometimes to the nonsense.  And
there's actually some useful "thruhiker" information - which is more
than I saw on either list for most of the year that I was a
"dual-lister".   

> If we do wish to develop a separate identity for the at-l, some dual listers
> will need to learn to post their material to one list or the other.  Dual
> posting, in my opinion, goes against the grain of differentiation.

I'll agree with this - and besides, Wingfoot doesn't seem to like dual
posting.
More importantly - it's confusing when a thread on one list crosses to
the other with no background or point of reference.  

> Anyone want to discuss this as a way to differentiate the at-l from the ATML?
> Cheryl points out the obvious strength of the at-l that we should build on,
> and that is the people connection we all have.  If we can find ways to play
> that aspect up, I think it's safe to say that both lists can exist and prosper
> side by side.  I don't believe there is any need for a struggle between the
> two.

If it's not obvious by now - if there's a struggle between the 2 lists,
it's only on the ATML side.  Or is the "struggle" a personal one? 
Again, it would be pretty much one-sided.  While Wingfoot seems to have
demonized me, I have no beef with him.  ;-)

I don't know how long either list will last, but I'd really like to see
at-l still hangin' in there when we get back in a year or two. It would
be nice to say hello to old friends after we've done our thing out
west.  

Walk softly,
Jim
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