[at-l] On the cell phone argument

[camojack at comcast.net (camojack@comcast.net)]

"Even Jesus had only 12 disciples."

Actually, He had 12 *Apostles*; but lots more *disciples* than that...especially nowadays. Some of them even hike on the A.T., and/or use cell phones...

-"Camo" (Only one discipline among many) 

-------------- Original message -------------- 
> Weary wrote: 
> >I despair of getting folks to understand. HYOH is here, and will remain. 
> >The anti-cell phone battle, as I've said many times, was lost long ago. My 
> >role is simply to point out the obvious that few seem capable of 
> >understanding. 
> 
> Y'know - at one time if I answered Weary, it would have been to argue with 
> him. And that may happen again. But this isn't argument, but rather 
> agreement with him. Although I don't despair, because I never had any 
> expectations of convincing anyone of anything. For Weary - some 
> encouragement - The quality of a Master is not determined by the size of his 
> crowds. Even Jesus had only 12 disciples. 
> 
> >Discrete use of pack-carried cell phones are harmless as long as they are 
> >carried by a minority of users. But the nature of the trail will have 
> >changed when cell phones are found in most packs, as surely they will very 
> >soon, if not already. 
> 
> Anyone who fails to understand this, simply fails to understand the nature 
> of what the Trail has been for the last 60 years. There are those who have 
> hiked the Trail before the era of instant communications. Some of them 
> understand the reality that the words of Weary's quote - "A world in which 
> you relied, always, on yourself" - are not compatible with a world in which 
> any and every problem can be made the responsibility of someone else - 
> someone not even connected with your life or your hike. It's a world in 
> which there is no personal responsibility, no real challenge, no requirement 
> even for competence because if you screw up - there's always someone to call 
> to "kiss it and make it better." Contrary to what anyone thinks - that's 
> NOT HYOH - it is in fact, the antithesis of HYOH. 
> 
> There are also those who know what the Trail was until recently - and are 
> happy to slough off the personal responsibility that was necessary to remain 
> happy and healthy on the Trail. Who needs First Aid training if one can 
> call 911 and get a medevac helicopter or a Rescue Ranger team? Those people 
> have my pity - but not much more. To be so un-self-reliant is something 
> that I have no desire to even imagine. 
> 
> >Quite quickly we'll be hearing the same argument folks have made about maps 
> >and guide books. I.e. you don't need to carry your own, someone will have 
> >one. That knowledge that "someone" or eventually, "most everyone," has the 
> >means for instant communication with the outside world is something new to 
> >the nature of "wildness." 
> 
> Yup. 
> 
> >" I had left behind the man-constructed world. Had already escaped from a 
> >world in which the days are consumed by clocks and dollars and traffic and 
> >other people. Had crossed over into a world that was governed by the sun 
> >and the wind and the lie of the land. A world in which the things that 
> >mattered were the pack on your back and sunlight on rough rock and the look 
> >of the way ahead. A world in which you relied, always, on yourself," 
> 
> That was worth repeating just for its own sake. 
> 
> >Some call this disconnectiveness and applaud. Others choose connectiveness. 
> >But with too many artifacts of communication, soon there may be no choice. 
> 
> One of the major points to the recent ?Disconnection? or ?Connection? ? post 
> was that while a cell phone "may" affect a day hiker or short term 
> backpacker's hike, the probability that it "won't" affect a long distance 
> hiker's journey is vanishingly small. If for no other reason than that it's 
> "presumed" to be a "lifeline" - even when they're in a place where the phone 
> may not work. Even if it's not intended as a "lifeline" - the knowledge is 
> still there, lurking at the edge of consciousness. 
> 
> In point of fact, little or nothing that I've said about cell phones has 
> even been intended to apply to day hikers or short term backpackers - 
> because as I said re: "connection" - the cumulative effect over a long term 
> is noticable, but over a short term is insignificant. 
> 
> I find it interesting that the most vocal opponents to "leave the cell phone 
> at home" are those who have not and have no intention of thruhiking - or of 
> spending more than a month on the Trail. To paraphrase Bill Shakespeare - 
> "Methinks thou doth protest too much." 
> 
> Enough- I'll try to get to JimB's questions tomorrow - if I don't get 
> swamped at work again. 
> 
> And for Shane - I'll think about the web page thing - it might just work. 
> 
> Walk softly, 
> Jim 
> 
> 
> http://www.spiriteaglehome.com/ 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________ 
> at-l mailing list 
> at-l@backcountry.net 
> http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/at-l From dfaddleton at gmail.com  Wed Aug 17 06:57:37 2005
From: dfaddleton at gmail.com (David Addleton)
Date: Wed Aug 17 08:00:07 2005
Subject: [at-l] 'Wilderness' definition(s)...
In-Reply-To: <081620052243.10804.43026BFD0002A1D200002A342200737478CB07040C9D@comcast.net>
References: <081620052243.10804.43026BFD0002A1D200002A342200737478CB07040C9D@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <a9a943ec05081705572e55f81e@mail.gmail.com>

Once when hiking with Clyde and Liteshoe, I was worried about what was
in my pack and Liteshoe lightened it considerably, tuckerizing I think
the word was then . . . I hope I can hike with them again sometime . .
.

On 8/16/05, rcli4@comcast.net <rcli4@comcast.net> wrote:
> 
> 
> > >>
> > I've never reached the point that the most important thing confronting
> > me is what someone else's pack contains. The amount of time I've spent
> > thinking about what was in someone else's pack is slightly less than how
> > long it's taken me to write this sentence.
> >
> 
> Sometimes when I hike with Liteshoe I worry about whats in her pack.  She gives me food when shes tired of carring it  :>))
> 
> Clyde
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