the Putnam Whine.... Re: [at-l] Cost to remove a blowdown

[RoksnRoots@aol.com (RoksnRoots@aol.com)]

In a message dated 3/11/2002 5:02:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
sloetoe@yahoo.com writes:


> ### "Irrefutable proof"??? Horseshit. RNR is writing of a letter
> from another advocate, not from some disinterested party. Such a
> letter is *proof* of nothing; *suggestive* on a good day.


     *** I honestly tried to not respond to this, but it contained so much 
false information that I could not abandon my responsibility to address it. 
First, I guarantee you that I am not playing games of "baiting" or such to 
provoke site attention by introducing this. Any objectively honest person 
following this who isn't interested solely in list politics would see that 
clearly. My purpose was to prove that advocacy was a legitimate AT pursuit 
and effective. 
     I suppose the general, existing disinterest in this apology for AT 
conservationism has caused a memory failure over how this exactly arose. The 
letter in question came to being because many confident detractors of a 
well-known AT site owner were insisting that they KNEW beyond any doubt that 
he was a charlatan and he lied about his AT protection campaigns. Evidence 
was then gotten from two credible AT sources. First was Dave Startzell, ATC 
Manager and Trail insider. He was quoted as saying (approx)  "those of us 
involved all know how effective your campaigns were". The final proof was 
provided by J Leutze, the director for the local organization fighting the 
mine. They came to Wingfoot -not the other way around. Sloe likes to minimize 
him as being just "another advocate", that is hardly the case. The letter was 
written by Mr. Jay Leutze specifically because he learned that some were 
going to lengths to deny WF credit. If you remember the letter, he 
specifically addresses all the false claims made by several persons in here 
one by one. He then asks doubters to write him if they still have any 
questions. Mr Leutze is a credible person Sloetoe, he is either setting the 
score straight or lying. I suggest you write him and tell him he's not worth 
taking seriously and your general knowledge of lobbying allows you to know 
better... 

    Yet once again, for the honest acknowledgment challenged: 


 ~~~     I want to say thank you.  Without the work you did, when you did it 
-- when everybody else was hemming and hawing or checking with their boards, 
as they must -- Belview mountain would be missing a big chunk of its hide by 
now.  Especially nice was that when the legal team of plantiffs did form, the 
work you had already done had set the stage, and our attorneys were able to 
use the record you generated as a key admissible exhibit.  I will also never 
forget, and am eternally grateful that when there was some question over who 
would be the plaintiffs, that you offered to be a plaintiff/intervenor if ATC 
decided they would not/could not.  It was key to our success that they did 
join the case, but it gave me great comfort to know that the hiking community 
would be represented in the action even if we lost ATC -- and I will always 
believe that your efforts helped fortify ATC's focus.  A pair of beautiful 
moments immediately come to mind: when I went to the Attorney General's 
office and the Governor's office and their staffs were doing nothing but 
receiving emails from your web campaign, cussing you(!), that is what put us 
on the map!  (You don't know this, because I would never have done anything 
to disturb the work I had already interrupted by coming into your life, but I 
had a number of people at the state level approach me who saw the web site 
and asked if I would refer them to you for your services.  I said "hell no, 
he's busy saving the Roan Highlands ...."  They had never seen a more 
effective campaign.  One guy is a lobbyist for health care issues in the 
state and I think he has tried to use your format as a blueprint.)  Here's 
the bottom line:  Without the trailplace campaign we had a standard-issue 
citizen lawsuit on our hands, with you, we had a bald-grass rebellion that 
literally brought the machinery of the state to a standstill until they would 
hear us!  I hope you're well and had a super holiday.  See you on the Hump 
this Spring!JayPS.  

Feel free to pass this email along to any doubters, or put them in touch with 
me ....Jay Erskine LeutzeBox 52Minneapolis, NC  28652   ~~~


> 
> 
> BOTTOM LINE:
> ### No such supportive letter written by a fellow advocate can
> be soberly considered as evidence of *anything*, pro or con.
> 
> Toe
> 

     ***   I'm afraid Mr Leutze beat you to the "bottom line" Sloetoe. If 
anybody is interested, I ask that they read Sloetoe's simplistic lobbying 
overgeneralizations vs the direct proof offered by the head local North 
Carolina community organizer against Putnam Mine, Mr Leutze. What you again 
return to is the stubborn, baseless propagandizing I was confronting before. 
Sorry to see your anger has caused you to have such a short memory... 
    Remember, I introduced this letter to the site after several posters said 
Wingfoot was lying about having any involvement at all in Putnam Mine. Nobody 
answered my post btw...
    The worst poison is the one by which we blind ourselves with hate when 
the truth is plain to see in front of us. The way I was raised, no group, 
animosity, or personal dislike for a controversial person or tone was enough 
reason to keep me from admitting when I was wrong...

    Who is in desperate denial here?


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