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[pct-l] Re: pct-l-digest V1 #800



Regarding San Jacinto in November and December
My experience has been that  it is as likely as not to snow in these months.
Trails are marked by 'blazes' hacked high on trees. I used snow shoes and nearly had the entire mountain to myself. There is a good survival hut near the peak. Great trip anytime of year.
Harper

pct-l-digest wrote:

> pct-l-digest           Friday, July 2 1999           Volume 01 : Number 800
>
> In this issue:
>
>     [pct-l] San Jacinto in November
>     [pct-l] Re: pct-l-digest V1 #799
>     [pct-l] Snow fields in Sept.
>     [pct-l] Tent color
>     Re: [pct-l] San Jacinto in November
>     [pct-l] hot foot
>     Re: [pct-l] hot foot
>     [pct-l] RE: pct-l-digest V1 #799
>     [pct-l] Suace for the Goose, Goes Around, Comes Around.
>     Re: [pct-l] Tent color
>     [pct-l] PCT vs. AT
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 22:18:32 -0700
> From: Glen Van Peski <gvp@home.com>
> Subject: [pct-l] San Jacinto in November
>
> Anyone have any experience with Southern California in November /
> December?
> Especially the Mt. San Jacinto area.  What are snow chances (if any) and
> water availability (if any)?
>
> We hiked Palms to Pines to I-10 last November.  We got rained on and
> some light snow, but there was no snow on the ground.  Water was
> reasonably plentiful.  We did fill up with 2 l. when it was available,
> but we didn't go off the trail to get it.
>
> "Homemade"
> * From the Pacific Crest Trail Email List |  http://www.backcountry.net   *
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 06:16:52 EDT
> From: PaddyBeer@aol.com
> Subject: [pct-l] Re: pct-l-digest V1 #799
>
> Your thoughts about the vast use on the AT, and the comments about hiking
> being trendy now, seem very similar to the ones that were raised during the
> time period that I first got into hiking, in the early 70's.  Folks then as
> now looked at the influx and said that they could not wait for the hype to be
> over.  Now remember those were the days when EMS was basically a mail order
> company and we had to drive an hour and a half to get to one of their stores
> from Long Island, NY.
>
> Although there are a great number of hikers on the AT, and it by no means is
> a wilderness experience, I have never encountered the problem with cell
> phones you mention (I admit to carrying one) or the attitude of arrogance or
> hostility that you indicated you have heard to be out there.  Like anything
> else if you encounter a group of people who have been together they you are
> an outsider until they get to know you.  On the AT the time it has taken for
> that to happen is very little.  Thus, I do not see any difference in the us
> 30 years ago and the us now.  Heck, even the long hair is coming back, at
> least for those who can grow it!
>
> I also wanted to mention that we are getting yet another shop going for
> lightweight hiking gear.  If interested, check it out at
> http://hometown.aol.com/paddybeer/page/index.htm
>
> Kevin (Paddington Bear)
> Buffalo, NY
> * From the Pacific Crest Trail Email List |  http://www.backcountry.net   *
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 08:41:40 EDT
> From: Montedodge@aol.com
> Subject: [pct-l] Snow fields in Sept.
>
> Yes, here will be some snow in Wash in Sept this year. There is a small snow
> field on " Old Snowy" in the goat rocks which is always there and some snow
> fields around Glacier Peak Area which will be worse this year because of our
> record snow. I would have an ice axe for these sections to be on the safe
> side. Good Luck!
> * From the Pacific Crest Trail Email List |  http://www.backcountry.net   *
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 01 Jul 1999 06:26:26 PDT
> From: Peter Haskell <pchaskell@hotmail.com>
> Subject: [pct-l] Tent color
>
> I just ordered a Nomad in yellow, but it then occurred to me that a darker
> color might make sleeping under the big sky easier.  Any thoughts on that?
>
> _______________________________________________________________
> Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com
> * From the Pacific Crest Trail Email List |  http://www.backcountry.net   *
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 11:08:37 EDT
> From: RRichey535@aol.com
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] San Jacinto in November
>
> In a message dated 6/30/99 10:23:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time, gvp@home.com
> writes:
>
> << We hiked Palms to Pines to I-10 last November.  We got rained on and
>  some light snow, but there was no snow on the ground.  Water was
>  reasonably plentiful.  We did fill up with 2 l. when it was available,
>  but we didn't go off the trail to get it.
>   >>
>
> Last year was pretty weird with El Nino.  Water is not really that plentiful
> in that area in the fall in my experience.  YMMV as always, Bob R.
> * From the Pacific Crest Trail Email List |  http://www.backcountry.net   *
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 01 Jul 1999 08:40:05 -0700
> From: TUmstead@gi.com
> Subject: [pct-l] hot foot
>
> A general rule of thumb, in near perfect conditions is: -5.5 per 1000' gain
> on a clear day, and -3.2 per 1000' gain while in clouds.  This will give
> you a general estimate.
>
> You can expect shade as you pass through San Jacinto and start down Fuller
> Ridge.  Several miles down Fuller Ridge you will enter desert environment
> and there will be very little to no shade until you get back up to altitude
> on the West Fork Mission Creek.
>
> Tim and Ann
> The Ravens  PCT '96
>
> > I'm planning to begin hiking north at Palms to Pines Highway on Sunday.
> The
> > forecast high temperature for Palm Springs that day is 111. My questions
> > are: 1) how much cooler (if any) will the trail at elevation be from that
> in
> > Palm Springs?, and 2) how much shade can I expect to find from San Jacinto
>
> > to San Gorgonio?
> >
> > please advise,
> >
> > Steve Musil
> * From the Pacific Crest Trail Email List |  http://www.backcountry.net   *
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 01 Jul 1999 10:15:43 -0700
> From: Tom Rogers <tfrogers@san.rr.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] hot foot
>
> Steve Musil wrote:
> > I'm planning to begin hiking north at Palms to Pines Highway on Sunday. The
> > forecast high temperature for Palm Springs that day is 111. My questions
> > are:
> 1) how much cooler (if any) will the trail at elevation be from that in
> Palm Springs?
>
> I hiked from Hwy 74 to the Marion Mountain Trail 2 weeks ago.  The trail
> is primarily on the eastern slope of the desert divide from the Live Oak
> Springs Junction until you crest at Taquitz Peak.  It was HOT!! and
> exposed most of the way.  My watch thermometer was usually in the 90's.
> There was good water at Live Oak Springs, Apache Spring, Little Taquitz
> Valley, and Strawberry Cienaga, and of course, Cedar Spring is usually
> reliable as well, but I didn't use it.  Carry extra water; the
> combination of direct sun and elevation gain nearly doubled my "normal"
> water consumption.  Observed 2 large rattlesnakes: one on the trail at
> Spitler Peak, and the other lurking at Apache Spring.
>
> >From Taquitz Peak to the Marion Mountain Trail (and presumably all the
> way to Fuller Ridge), the trail is west of the crest, in forest, and
> much cooler.
>
> 2) how much shade can I expect to find from San Jacinto to San
> Gorgonio?
>
> Once you drop off Fuller Ridge, you'll be exposed the rest of the way...
>
> Have a good hike, Tom
> * From the Pacific Crest Trail Email List |  http://www.backcountry.net   *
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 10:19:45 -0700
> From: "Chandler, Stacie M" <Stacie.Chandler@PSS.Boeing.com>
> Subject: [pct-l] RE: pct-l-digest V1 #799
>
> Has anyone heard from PCT thru hiker Margaret Brownell? She started her  hike on 4/24 and the last I heard from her was on 5/9. She was in Big Bear, CA then....
>
> > ----------
> > From:         owner-pct-l-digest@majordomo.hack.net[SMTP:owner-pct-l-digest@majordomo.hack.net]
> > Reply To:     pct-l@edina.hack.net
> > Sent:         Wednesday, June 30, 1999 10:00 PM
> > To:   pct-l-digest@majordomo.hack.net
> > Subject:      pct-l-digest V1 #799
> >
> >
> > pct-l-digest          Thursday, July 1 1999          Volume 01 : Number 799
> >
> >
> >
> > In this issue:
> >
> >     [pct-l] Skeeters, Late SCal, and Cascades
> >     [pct-l] Skeeters
> >     [pct-l] Walt & Pat Radney
> >     [pct-l] My friend Doug Banks
> >     [pct-l] Hiker sightings, trail news
> >     [pct-l] Re: pct-l-digest V1 #797
> >     [pct-l] Postcards from the Trail: Junk Yard Dog
> >     [pct-l] BOUNCE pct-l@backcountry.net:     Admin request of type /\buns\w*b/i at line 9   (fwd)
> >     [pct-l] Fw: Golden Rule
> >     [pct-l] At vs PCT
> >     Re: [pct-l] At vs PCT
> >     [pct-l] hot foot
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 07:42:57 -0400
> > From: "David B. Stockton" <davstock@tiac.net>
> > Subject: [pct-l] Skeeters, Late SCal, and Cascades
> >
> > I personally believe that mosquitos have some primitive distributed
> > intelligence that causes them - as a localized group - to target a person
> > at a given time, perhaps because of internal needs.  In the S. Pacific I
> > ended up with both malaria and dengue fever at different times and in
> > different countries.  Before each time I remember a specific night when the
> > mosquitos seemed to target me (and no one else around) with a particularly
> > focused eerie-feeling swarm.  Soon afterwards I was sick, sick, sick.
> >  Science fiction pales when you look at the malaria cycle.
> >
> > Anyone have any experience with Southern California in November / December?
> > Especially the Mt. San Jacinto area.  What are snow chances (if any) and
> > water availability (if any)?
> >
> > Also -- are all the snow fields in the Cascades clear in September or are
> > there still some that require safety gear (i.e., ice axe)?  Has anyone been
> > there then?
> >
> > Thanks in advance --
> >
> > Dave
> >
> > David B. Stockton
> > davstock@tiac.net
> >
> >
> > * From the Pacific Crest Trail Email List |  http://www.backcountry.net   *
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 08:56:20 -0400
> > From: hudsom@us.ibm.com
> > Subject: [pct-l] Skeeters
> >
> > ROTFLOL   ;  )   You should have been with me on my hike from Tahoe to Yosemite
> > last year. The high snow melt had bred vast numbers of skeeters, they probably
> > heard I was coming.... since my trailname is Skeeterbait....
> >
> >
> > * From the Pacific Crest Trail Email List |  http://www.backcountry.net   *
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 19:08:58 -0500 (CDT)
> > From: PCT-L Guest Post <milt@backcountry.net>
> > Subject: [pct-l] Walt & Pat Radney
> >
> > * Message posted to PCT-L from the National Scenic Trails Website
> > * by our guest Teton Fritz <LutzRobert@aol.com>.
> > * Please use <mailto:LutzRobert@aol.com> to reply to the sender.
> >
> > Has anyone heard from Walt & Pat Radney...they are thru-hiking the PCT at present, from Mexico to Canada...last heard from them when they re-supplied at Lone Pine, CA and they said we would hear from them again when they re-supply at Lake Tahoe. I'm planning to rendevous with them somewhere along Section-K between Rainy Pass, and Stevens Pass.  -Teton
> >
> >
> > * From the Pacific Crest Trail Email List |  http://www.backcountry.net   *
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 10:59:44 -0500 (CDT)
> > From: Milt Webb <unclemilt@backcountry.net>
> > Subject: [pct-l] My friend Doug Banks
> >
> > Hello folks. I'm signing on the list to keep everyone posted on Doug's
> > progress. I'll assume he made the standard announcements etc. to the list
> > before signing off.>
> >
> > He left last week, heading west from Atlanta in his red jeep. Planned to
> > visit some family on the way to N. Ca. as well as visiting Yellowstone and
> > other favorite places. He had some time to kill while waiting for more
> > snow to melt.
> >
> > Doug will be sending his notes, journals and film to me and I'll do my
> > best to post these to my web site for those that want to follow his
> > journey.
> >
> > I'll post the URL and other info when it's available...
> >
> > - -UncleMilt (mostly the AT-L admin guy)
> >
> >  ---
> >
> > "In the name of the Bee, and of the Butterfly, and of the Breeze, Amen" -
> >     --Emily Dickenson
> >
> >
> > * From the Pacific Crest Trail Email List |  http://www.backcountry.net   *
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 09:46:36 -0700
> > From: Glen Van Peski <gvp@home.com>
> > Subject: [pct-l] Hiker sightings, trail news
> >
> > I just got back from hiking Kennedy Meadows to Red's Meadow with a
> > friend of mine "Reader" (Read Miller), who is back on the trail after
> > taking 6 weeks off. Most of the following is from memory, so give some
> > latitude with names and dates.
> >
> > We left Kennedy Meadows late afternoon on June 18th.  We met up with
> > Gearman and Cowboy Poet that day, and camped a little beyond them, above
> > Beck Meadows.  Around Trail Pass, we met up with various parts of an
> > original 6-person party that had just split up.  Two "older" guys, Roy
> > and Don, were by themselves.  "Skunk" (Jennifer), was traveling by
> > herself, and Roy's daughter was traveling with two companions.  We also
> > ran into Denny and Bob.  On the way up to Forester Pass, we spoke with
> > Sly, who had his AT buddy Bulldog hiking with him until Tuolumne.  We
> > also met "Jaime" (James) hiking by himself at quite a pace.  Before
> > Pinchot Pass, we spent the night near Tim, hiking with his buddy Michael
> > who was along for a week or two.  At the top of Muir Pass we met Chris
> > and Katy.  Katy had taken a dive with her pack into a stream, head under
> > water, the whole deal.  She had a gash on her shoulder from the rocks in
> > the stream, but by the time we found them in the Muir hut, she seemed
> > none the worse for wear.  Near Evolution Lake we met "Lucky", who had
> > stopped early because his stomach was bothering him anytime he cinced up
> > his waist belt.  At the Muir Trail Ranch we resupplied, and said hi to
> > "Rude Dog" and "Barbie Gone Bad", who are both working there.  On the
> > way out of MTR, we met Yosemite Charles, who did the trail in '73, and
> > was coming back from getting his buddy Yosemite John started.  We kept
> > hearing of the PA Plummers, but never actually met them.  I think we
> > walked by their stuff one afternoon, but nobody was around, so we didn't
> > get to chat.  At Tully Hole, we spent the night near Heiko and Laura.
> > The next day we say Stephanie, hiking with Miguel.  Then we were at
> > Red's Meadow.  Heiko and Laura were there, as was Jim, Neil from
> > England, and some others.  I left the trail there.  I heard Tuesday from
> > Reader that there was a group of about 20 thruhikers bunched up at
> > Tuolumne waiting for trail conditions to better, and that they would
> > probably be leaving Wednesday or Thursday.  All the hikers we met were
> > in fine spirits.
> >
> > In general, the passes were not bad.  Muir had the most snow.  It was
> > melting fast on the north side, but was Slurpee consistency when we were
> > hiking through it, and seemed to go on forever.  We were suprised that
> > the bugs weren't bad.  We used DEET twice, and never put on a headnet at
> > night (we were sleeping without tents).  Even in places we remember as
> > terrible from earlier years were not bad.  Sallie Keyes lakes were
> > swarming, though.
> >
> > Anyone wanting to ask about particulars I may have forgotten, feel free
> > to email me directly.
> >
> > "Homemade" (Glen Van Peski)
> > * From the Pacific Crest Trail Email List |  http://www.backcountry.net   *
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 11:50:02 -0700
> > From: "Joe Risser, M.D., M.P.H." <jrisser@ibm.net>
> > Subject: [pct-l] Re: pct-l-digest V1 #797
> >
> > - --=====================_9013027==_.ALT
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >
> >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------
> > >
> > > Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 15:51:53 -0700
> > > From: Birgitte Jensen <bjensen4@juno.com>
> > > Subject: [pct-l] mosquitoes - help!
> > >
> > >  One of the subscribers has reminded me that I have another Really Bad
> > > Problem (Sierra camping-trip with kids): mosquitoes.
> > >
> > > 1) I just can't dip them in DEET; am nervous about putting the stuff on
> > > _my_ skin. The most I'll do is rub a little DEET stick on cuffs, etc.
> > >
> > > 2) Citronella's an option, maybe. It works for me if I reapply it often,
> > > but the kids may object to the strong furniture-polish smell and it makes
> > > some (me, for one) sun sensitive.
> > >
> > > 3) On my last hike, I experimented with "Coppertone BUG SUN kid's
> > > formula" a suncreen (SPF 30) and insect repellant creme combo; slathered
> > > it on at the TH before the last trip. The sunscreen part worked okay,
> > > but since there weren't any bugs that day, I dunno about the bug part. No
> > > DEET (something called "N, N diethyl-m-tcluamide 9 1/2%, which sounds
> > > even nastier and not-very-potent also), but the fumes from it drove me
> > > crazy until I managed to sponge the stuff off that evening in camp - it
> > > smells kind of like a creme depillatory.
> > >
> > > 4) Don't want to mess around with Skin So Soft/Brewers' yeast type
> > > remedies. Some people swear by it, but it doesn't work for me/others -
> > > Consumer Reports, for what it's worth, says it useless as a
> > > bug-repellant. I just can't return the kids sobbing and
> > > bloody-from-scratching. Will bring every bite-soother I can think of, but
> > > would prefer they not be eaten alive in the first place.
> > >
> > > 5) Personally, I cope with mosquitoes by going dry/climbing high, but the
> > > kids will want to hike easy and stay at a lake. They should probably get
> > > a kick out of wearing netting bug-hats, but if it's at all hot, they
> > > won't enjoy being swaddled head/toe in clothing including gloves (and
> > > I've had mosquitoes bite me right through pants' legs, anyway); the
> > > "let's pretend we're all beekeepers" game will wear off real fast.
> > >
> > > Help!     bj
> >
> >
> > I've learned that not all mosquitoes are the same--some are repelled by 1
> > chemical much more than others. In the Sierras, nothing beats DEET. Other
> > hikers have recommended applying a lower-potency DEET lotion (15-20%) 1st,
> > topped with a 100% DEET pump over the lotion. That combination reduces DEET
> > absorption and is extremely effective. NEVER apply 100% DEET to nylon or
> > synthetics (esp. tents) since it can degrade the material.
> >
> > For mosquito dense areas, I also apply permethrin (Nix or Elimite cream) to
> > socks and clothes. To reduce their concentration around camp, I like the Off
> > Mosquito Coil and/or Off Yard and Deck Area Repellant. Finally, I take garlic
> > pills which may reduce bites though has never been effective when used alone.
> >
> > Admittedly, it's overkill and involves some potent chemicals but, for me, it's
> > far preferable to the misery following mosquito onslaughts.
> > - --=====================_9013027==_.ALT
> > Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
> >
> > <html>
> > <blockquote type=cite cite>------------------------------<br>
> > <br>
> > Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 15:51:53 -0700<br>
> > From: Birgitte Jensen &lt;bjensen4@juno.com&gt;<br>
> > Subject: [pct-l] mosquitoes - help!<br>
> > <br>
> > &nbsp;One of the subscribers has reminded me that I have another Really
> > Bad<br>
> > Problem (Sierra camping-trip with kids): mosquitoes.<br>
> > <br>
> > 1) I just can't dip them in DEET; am nervous about putting the stuff
> > on<br>
> > _my_ skin. The most I'll do is rub a little DEET stick on cuffs,
> > etc.<br>
> > <br>
> > 2) Citronella's an option, maybe. It works for me if I reapply it>
> > often,<br>
> > but the kids may object to the strong furniture-polish smell a> nd it
> > makes<br>
> > some (me, for one) sun sensitive.<br>
> > <br>
> > 3) On my last hike, I experimented with &quot;Coppertone BUG SUN
> > kid's<br>
> > formula&quot; a suncreen (SPF 30) and insect repellant creme combo;
> > slathered<br>
> > it on at the TH before the last trip. The sunscreen part worked okay,
> > <br>
> > but since there weren't any bugs that day, I dunno about the bug part.
> > No<br>
> > DEET (something called &quot;N, N diethyl-m-tcluamide 9 1/2%, which
> > sounds<br>
> > even nastier and not-very-potent also), but the fumes from it drove
> > me<br>
> > crazy until I managed to sponge the stuff off that evening in camp -
> > it<br>
> > smells kind of like a creme depillatory.<br>
> > <br>
> > 4) Don't want to mess around with Skin So Soft/Brewers' yeast type<br>
> > remedies. Some people swear by it, but it doesn't work for me/others
> > - -<br>
> > Consumer Reports, for what it's worth, says it useless as a<br>
> > bug-repellant. I just can't return the kids sobbing and<br>
> > bloody-from-scratching. Will bring every bite-soother I can think of,
> > but<br>
> > would prefer they not be eaten alive in the first place.<br>
> > <br>
> > 5) Personally, I cope with mosquitoes by going dry/climbing high, but
> > the<br>
> > kids will want to hike easy and stay at a lake. They should probably
> > get<br>
> > a kick out of wearing netting bug-hats, but if it's at all hot,
> > they<br>
> > won't enjoy being swaddled head/toe in clothing including gloves
> > (and<br>
> > I've had mosquitoes bite me right through pants' legs, anyway); the<br>
> > &quot;let's pretend we're all beekeepers&quot; game will wear off real
> > fast.<br>
> > <br>
> > Help!&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; bj</blockquote><br>
> > I've learned that not all mosquitoes are the same--some are repelled by 1
> > chemical much more than others. In the Sierras, nothing beats DEET. Other
> > hikers have recommended applying a lower-potency DEET lotion (15-20%)
> > 1st, topped with a 100% DEET pump over the lotion. That combination
> > reduces DEET absorption and is extremely effective. NEVER apply 100% DEET
> > to nylon or synthetics (esp. tents) since it can degrade the
> > material.<br>
> > <br>
> > For mosquito dense areas, I also apply permethrin (Nix or Elimite cream)
> > to socks and clothes. To reduce their concentration around camp, I like
> > the Off Mosquito Coil and/or Off Yard and Deck Area Repellant. Finally, I
> > take garlic pills which may reduce bites though has never been effective
> > when used alone.<br>
> > <br>
> > Admittedly, it's overkill and involves some potent chemicals but, for me,
> > it's far preferable to the misery following mosquito onslaughts. </html>
> >
> > - --=====================_9013027==_.ALT--
> >
> > * From the Pacific Crest Trail Email List |  http://www.backcountry.net   *
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 12:39:18 -0700
> > From: "ROBERT E RIESS" <CDRRIESS@prodigy.net>
> > Subject: [pct-l] Postcards from the Trail: Junk Yard Dog
> >
> >                                                                 Yosemite
> > National Park
> >                                                                 Tuolumne
> > Meadows PO
> >                                                                 June 26,
> > 1999
> >
> > Hey Bob,
> >
> > Check it out, I made it this far.  Unfortunately, Snoop didn't make it.  He
> > jumped off way back in Cabazon.  Sly is a few days behind me.  It's been a
> > great trip so far.  I have never seen mountains like these.  Thank you for
> > everything,  Junk Yard Dog.
> >
> > * From the Pacific Crest Trail Email List |  http://www.backcountry.net   *
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 15:20:35 -0500 (CDT)
> > From: PCT List Admin <brick@fastpack.com>
> > Subject: [pct-l] BOUNCE pct-l@backcountry.net:     Admin request of type /\buns\w*b/i at line 9   (fwd)
> >
> > - ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 15:10:02 -0500 (CDT)
> > From: owner-pct-l@backcountry.net
> > To: owner-pct-l@backcountry.net
> > Subject: BOUNCE pct-l@backcountry.net:     Admin request of type > /\buns\w*b/i
> >     at line 9
> >
> > >From owner-pct-l  Wed Jun 30 15:10:02 1999
> > Received: from m2.boston.juno.com (m2.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.199])
> >       by edina.hack.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA23690
> >       for <pct-l@backcountry.net>; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 15:10:01 -0500 (CDT)
> >       (envelope-from bjensen4@juno.com)
> > Received: (from bjensen4@juno.com)
> >  by m2.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id EEDVGYPD; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 16:05:26 EDT
> > To: pct-l@backcountry.net
> > Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 12:47:41 -0700
> > Subject: Golden Rule
> > Message-ID: <19990630.125942.-813897.27.bjensen4@juno.com>
> > X-Mailer: Juno 2.0.11
> > X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-2,5-6,13-16,21-22,24-27
> > X-Juno-Att: 0
> > MIME-Version: 1.0
> > Content-Type: text/plain
> > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> > From: Birgitte Jensen <bjensen4@juno.com>
> >
> > >Dear "Suebee," and general list members [snip]
> > >http://mcb.berkeley.edu/groups/mcbcdna/mailing_etiquette.html gives
> >
> > For those of us who have our little troubles accessing websites, or are
> > someone like me/Miss Manners who like their rules embroidered in homilies
> >  and hung in a cute frame on the parlor wall <g>:
> >
> > 1) The Golden Rule.     If somebody posts something and doesn't get
> > uns*ubscribed or reprimanded or the membership doesn't rise up in outrage,
> > then undoubtedly it's fair for you to do it too. A dignified High Road
> > shouldn't equate lurking; otherwise, only vocal bullies would feel
> > comfortable posting. Set a good example  - provide good information, do
> > good deeds with nonpolitical motives, make friends but don't form cliques
> > to gangbang other subscribers, credit your sources, watch your language.
> >
> > 2) What Goes Around Comes Around - on equitable mailing lists.
> >
> > 3) Sauce For The Goose/Sauce For The Gander.   What "comes down" for
> > girls does so equally for boys; both genders have the same
> > privileges/restrictions. Nobody gets condescended to or picked on or
> > favored because of characteristics like age, race, wallet-size, gender
> > and so on.
> >
> > 4) A Stitch In Time Saves Nine. If you haven't much to say, make it
> > short; if your have alot to say, make it lo-ng-g.
> >
> > 4) Bless Our Happy Home. ....
> >
> > bj
> > ___________________________________________________________________
> > Get the Internet just the way you want it.
> > Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month!
> > Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.
> >
> > * From the Pacific Crest Trail Email List |  http://www.backcountry.net   *
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 13:49:21 -0700
> > From: Birgitte Jensen <bjensen4@juno.com>
> > Subject: [pct-l] Fw: Golden Rule
> >
> > Have been trying to send this message for awhile, but it just keeps
> > "bouncing" from the list with
> >         PCT List Admin <brick@fastpack.com>  as the sender.
> >
> >
> >
> > >Dear "Suebee," and general list members [snip]
> > >http://mcb.berkeley.edu/groups/mcbcdna/mailing_etiquette.html gives
> >
> > For those of us who have our little troubles accessing websites, or are
> > someone like me/Miss Manners who like their rules embroidered in homilies
> >  and hung in a cute frame on the parlor wall <g>:
> >
> > 1) The Golden Rule.     If somebody posts something and doesn't get
> > unsubscribed or reprimanded or the membership doesn't rise up in outrage,
> > then undoubtedly it's fair for you to do it too. A dignified High Road
> > shouldn't equate lurking; otherwise, only vocal bullies would feel
> > comfortable posting. Set a good example  - provide good information, do
> > good deeds with nonpolitical motives, make friends but don't form cliques
> > to gangbang other subscribers, credit your sources, watch your language.
> >
> > 2) What Goes Around Comes Around - on equitable mailing lists.
> >
> > 3) Sauce For The Goose/Sauce For The Gander.   What "comes down" for
> > girls does so equally for boys; both genders have the same
> > privileges/restrictions. Nobody gets condescended to or picked on or>
> > favored because of characteristics like a> ge, race, wallet-size, gender
> > and so on.
> >
> > 4) A Stitch In Time Saves Nine. If you haven't much to say, make it
> > short; if your have alot to say, make it lo-ng-g.
> >
> > 4) Bless Our Happy Home. ....
> >
> > bj
> >
> > ___________________________________________________________________
> > Get the Internet just the way you want it.
> > Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month!
> > Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.
> > * From the Pacific Crest Trail Email List |  http://www.backcountry.net   *
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 18:22:02 EDT
> > From: Montedodge@aol.com
> > Subject: [pct-l] At vs PCT
> >
> > I have heard many war storys about the AT in recent years with hikers using
> > cell phones to  hog up campsites even though other thru-hikers are five miles
> > ahead of them and closer to prized campsites and shelters. With so many
> > thru-hikers hitting the trail at one time, people become cold toward each
> > other. On a recent hike up eagle creek, hikers would not look you in the eye
> > and say "hi"or Nice Day Huh". I know old time hikers had a deep respect for
> > each other and always had time to aknowledge each other on the trail and
> > speak. At small trail towns and drops, it was like meeting a long lost
> > brother or sister each time you saw a thru-hiker you hadn,t seen in a  month
> > or two. Hopefully, PCT hikers still share the same caring for each other and
> > respect. I really hope we don,t get the hordes of people the AT gets. Too
> > many hikers means people get into their " mall trance" and just look straight
> > ahead when other people are coming. bummer  Any AT thru-hikers that can share
> > about this or PCT hikers of recent years?
> > * From the Pacific Crest Trail Email List |  http://www.backcountry.net   *
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 20:47:58 -0400
> > From: Paul A Magnanti <pmags@juno.com>
> > Subject: Re: [pct-l] At vs PCT
> >
> > On Wed, 30 Jun 1999 18:22:02 EDT Montedodge@aol.com writes:
> >
> > > ahead when other people are coming. bummer  Any AT thru-hikers that
> > > can share  > about this or PCT hikers of recent years?
> >
> >        Found fellow AT thru-hikers to be an all around great bunch of
> > people.  Heck, I find hikers to be an all around great bunch of people.
> > Make a point to say to everyone I met on the trail. Can't hurt to give  a
> > little hello.  Have yet to have anyone ignore me..
> >
> >   There is, however, a growing "party" scene on the AT.  The outdoor
> > pursuits type of thing is trendy right now. So you have many people
> > "doing the AT" who do not care so much about the woods, but as a cool
> > thing to do. Maybe when this "SUV, lets by a $300 GTX shell to walk
> > around in the Mall, Polo hiking boots (?!?!?!)" trend goes away,  the AT
> > will not be quite as crowded.   As one person said to me at Trail Days
> > this past year: "I like the AT, it is all this hiking I can't stand".
> > Some people enjoy the social aspect more. Hike your own hike, I guess.
> > Part of the more crowded nature of the trail.
> >                   Not all eastern hiking trails are crowded. On a recent
> > trek of Vermont's "Long Trail", went two days w/o seeing anyone.  Here in
> > Rhode Island,  on more than one occasion, have done day hikes in the
> > local state forests and not see a soul. And Rhody is second only to
> > Jersey in population density! (Which is one reason why  I am leaving it,
> > but that is another story).
> >
> >  It is possible to get solitude on the AT, though. Avoid camping at
> > lean-tos (Shelters to non- New Englanders out there.. :D ),  and start
> > earlier in the season, or go Southbound.   I loved the AT, but it is a
> > high use trail.   When I (hopefully!) do the PCT in 2002, I look forward
> > to more of a wilderness experience.
> >
> > OK...put my .02, back to lurking mode... :D
> >
> >
> > * From the Pacific Crest Trail Email List |  http://www.backcountry.net>    *
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 19:24:00 -0800
> > From: Steve Musil <smusil@angnewspapers.com>
> > Subject: [pct-l] hot foot
> >
> > I'm planning to begin hiking north at Palms to Pines Highway on Sunday. The
> > forecast high temperature for Palm Springs that day is 111. My questions
> > are: 1) how much cooler (if any) will the trail at elevation be from that in
> > Palm Springs?, and 2) how much shade can I expect to find from San Jacinto
> > to San Gorgonio?
> >
> > please advise,
> >
> > Steve Musil
> > * From the Pacific Crest Trail Email List |  http://www.backcountry.net   *
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > End of pct-l-digest V1 #799
> > ***************************
> >
> > * From the Pacific Crest Trail Email List |  http://www.backcountry.net  *
> >
> * From the Pacific Crest Trail Email List |  http://www.backcountry.net   *
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 12:16:07 -0700
> From: "ROBERT E RIESS" <CDRRIESS@prodigy.net>
> Subject: [pct-l] Suace for the Goose, Goes Around, Comes Around.
>
> bj was right on the money in her recent post, and I regret that it posted
> twice for whatever reason.   In fact, I have found bj to be eloquent,
> gracious and articulate in her posts to the list.  She generously shares her
> first hand experiences when it would be far easier to remain silent and not
> have to absorb the individual and collective arrows of the critics. I value
> her contributions.  Being there is a whole lot different from hearing about
> it.  The list will be poorer for the loss if bj cuts and runs in the
> footsteps of others, or if her voice is intimidated, channeled, edited or
> influenced in any way.
>
> I have said before, the list is a treasure and I have the utmost admiration
> for those who selflessly administer it.  bj is certainly a valuable
> contributor to the greatness of the list.
>
> Hike on !!  Bob Riess at the TrailHead in San Diego.
>
> * From the Pacific Crest Trail Email List |  http://www.backcountry.net   *
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 23:16:16 -0700
> From: java2@ix.netcom.com
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Tent color
>
> I don't know if dark colors will make it easier to sleep in, but black
> or blue will sure dry out quicker in the morning if it gets wet
> overnight. Black and blue tend to dry much faster.
> Tom
> * From the Pacific Crest Trail Email List |  http://www.backcountry.net   *
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 15:38:54 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Karen Borski <kborski@yahoo.com>
> Subject: [pct-l] PCT vs. AT
>
> "I have heard many war storys about the AT in recent years with hikers
> using cell phones to hog up campsites even though other thru-hikers are
> five miles ahead of them and closer to prized campsites and shelters.
> With so many thru-hikers hitting the trail at one time, people become
> cold toward each other.....
>
> I really hope we don,t get the hordes of people the AT gets. Too many
> hikers means people get into their " mall trance" and just look
> straight ahead when other people are coming. bummer  Any AT thru-hikers
> that can
> share about this or PCT hikers of recent years?"
>
> I thru-hiked the AT last year.  Although I found the first couple of
> weeks to be a bit crowded for my taste, I never ever encountered "mall
> stares," or unfriendly behavior on a large scale even when there were
> groups at the shelters or in town.  Thru-hikers recognized one another,
> looked out for one another and it seemed the ones that stayed on the
> trail had a mysterious ability to form close friendships early on.
> Also, I never heard or saw any thru-hikers using phones to "hog up"
> campsites - in fact, I'm not sure what this means or how one would use
> a cell phone for such a purpose.  Only hiker I witnessed talking on a
> phone in front of me on the AT was a weekender in the Smokies (and it
> was very disturbing).
>
> I consider nearly all of my fellow ә hikers to be an extended family
> now.  Heck, I considered them family the same day I met them!  I still
> call them, write them and plan hikes with them (like the PCT next
> year).  I do remember several encounters with "cold" and inconsiderate
> weekend hikers and large groups out for a few days on the AT, but the
> thru-hikers were not rude.  Hanging around thru-hikers spoiled me,and I
> was frequently appalled when other hikers would pass without saying Hi
> or smiling.  Guess I looked rough, though.
>
> One other note about the AT:  I experienced quite a bit of solitude,
> surprisingly in the places youd least expect it (PA, NJ, NY, CT),
> proving that it has a lot to do with timing.  Of course there are a lot
> of folks starting in Georgia in the springtime, but those numbers dont
> stick around for New England.  I have to say I did not share many camps
> or shelters north of New York state.
>
> Still, a lot of AT thru-hikers Ive talked to about the PCT admit that
> theyd like to hike the PCT before it gets crowded.  Im one of them
> and hope to see fewer hikers on the PCT than I did on the AT.
>
> Karen
> Nocona GA->ME ә

>
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of pct-l-digest V1 #800
> ***************************
>
> * From the Pacific Crest Trail Email List |  http://www.backcountry.net  *

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