pct-l-digest V1 #666

>
>pct-l-digest        Wednesday, January 27 1999        Volume 01 : Number
666
>
>
>
>In this issue:
>
>    Re: [pct-l] Volume of a cube vs. a cylinder
>    [pct-l] Pack Size
>    fwd:[pct-l] Water filters
>    Re: [pct-l] Volume of a cube vs. a cylinder
>    Re: [pct-l] Pack Size
>    RE: [pct-l] Pack capacity for PCT truhike
>    [pct-l] Reality check on Sierra snow scare
>    [pct-l] Pack capacity
>    [pct-l] MSR Filters
>    [pct-l] boredom
>    [pct-l] PUR filter
>    [pct-l] boredom
>    RE: [pct-l] MSR Filters
>    RE: [pct-l] MSR Filters
>    [pct-l] boredom
>    [pct-l] boredom
>    [pct-l] Re: What about the tedium and boredom?
>    Re: [pct-l] Re: What about the tedium and boredom?
>    Re: [pct-l] Re: What about the tedium and boredom?
>    [pct-l] What about the tedium and boredom?
>    Re: [pct-l] Re: thoughts while walking
>    RE: [pct-l] MSR Filters
>    [pct-l] reading matter
>    Re: [pct-l] reading matter
>    Re: [pct-l] reading matter
>    [pct-l] What about the tedium and boredom?
>    [pct-l] permit rumor?
>    RE: [pct-l] MSR Filters
>    Re: [pct-l] reading matter
>    [pct-l] Worst song to get stuck
>    Re: [pct-l] permit rumor?
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 22:04:09 -0800
>From: Brick Robbins <brick@fastpack.com>
>Subject: Re: [pct-l] Volume of a cube vs. a cylinder
>
>At 09:40 PM 1/26/99 -0800, Joanne Lennox wrote:
>>Brooks Hull has put me on the false assumption that I made in making my
>>backpack.
>
>I've made several backpacks for "fastpacking" and adventure racing, and
>even made the pack I used on my thru-hike.
>
>First off, don't count on using your first try. Whenever I did a major
>redesign, it always took at least two tries to get it right. Second, the
>planned volume had no bearing the actual volume when I was done.
>
>The easiest way to measure the actual volume is to buy a BIG bag of dried
>beans and fill up the pack, then measure them as you pour them out.
>
>The beans make good "practice" weight for training hikes too!
>
>Hike your own hike
>
>Brick
>
>
>* From the Pacific Crest Trail Email List |  http://www.backcountry.net   *
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 01:46:27 EST
>From: Montedodge@aol.com
>Subject: [pct-l] Pack Size
>
>I used an old Jansport D3 with around 3900 cu.in. of room. Of course in
those
>days it was either this pack or a Kelty Serac or Tioga. I had 19 food
drops,
>didn,t use a water filter, only used a poncho for rain gear and still had
my
>D3 bulging at the seems. The main  thing with weight is food and water. The
>more days between stops, the more weight you are going to carry. So unless
you
>eat like a girbel, you are doomed to carry that bulk and weight. Ultra
light
>packing means nothing if you carry 20 days of food. Resupply at every
chance
>or buy a large pack. I was proud of using 19 drops, after reading Rybak
used
>only 5, I thought I had planned well. Bottom line is it doesn,t matter if
your
>pack is 8 pounds, it the time between resupplying where the weight comes
in.
>ps I used an oversized stuff sack on top of D3 for more room.
>* From the Pacific Crest Trail Email List |  http://www.backcountry.net   *
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 22:35:45 -0800
>From: Brick Robbins <brick@fastpack.com>
>Subject: fwd:[pct-l] Water filters
>
>====================
>This is a forward of a bounced post.
>Please reply to the list or
>mailto:bturner@nidlink.com
>====================
>
>Subject: BOUNCE pct-l@backcountry.net:    Non-member submission from [Bob
>Turner <bturner@nidlink.com>]
>
>Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 20:45:02 +0000
>From: Bob Turner <bturner@nidlink.com>
>Reply-To: bturner@nidlink.com
>To: pct-l@backcountry.net
>Subject: Re: [pct-l] Water filters
>
>Chris mentioned that the filter for the Pur Hiker was not cleanable.  It
>is true that it really isn't field cleanable, but after our '97 thru
>hike I dried out one of the cartridges and rinsed it with the sprayer
>fromthe kitchen sink.  It lookod much cleaner, and pumped much easier
>than before.  I then ran some blue dye through it ( this is a filter
>test for the old First Need filter) and it came through clear.  I used
>the rejuvenated cartridge on two trips last summer with no problem.
>- --
>Bob Turner
>President,
>American Long Distance Hiking Association-West
>...to promote fellowship and communication
>among long distance hikers...
>http://www.gorp.com/nonprof/aldhaw
>* From the Pacific Crest Trail Email List |  http://www.backcountry.net   *
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 22:58:25 -0800
>From: "Joanne Lennox" <goforth@cio.net>
>Subject: Re: [pct-l] Volume of a cube vs. a cylinder
>
>Well Brick I think you're right. I have made other packs before but the
>parameters were quite different. And sewing seems to have its unique ins
>and outs and it is difficult to anticipate everything on the first try.  I
>actually think I did fairly well (my husband who is also a sewer, liked
>it), and I can still cut it down - at least in one direction.
>
>That must have been some kind of BIG bag of beans.  I think I need more of
>the size of one of those old BEAN BAG CHAIRS  to fill my pack right now
><G>.
>
>Can you tell me anything about your design or how much cubic inches it had?
>
>Thanks
>Goforth
>
>- ----------
>> From: Brick Robbins <brick@fastpack.com>
>> To: PCT-L@backcountry.net
>> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Volume of a cube vs. a cylinder
>> Date: Tuesday, January 26, 1999 10:04 PM
>>
>> At 09:40 PM 1/26/99 -0800, Joanne Lennox wrote:
>> >Brooks Hull has put me on the false assumption that I made in making my
>> >backpack.
>>
>> I've made several backpacks for "fastpacking" and adventure racing, and
>> even made the pack I used on my thru-hike.
>>
>> First off, don't count on using your first try. Whenever I did a major
>> redesign, it always took at least two tries to get it right. Second, the
>> planned volume had no bearing the actual volume when I was done.
>>
>> The easiest way to measure the actual volume is to buy a BIG bag of dried
>> beans and fill up the pack, then measure them as you pour them out.
>>
>> The beans make good "practice" weight for training hikes too!
>>
>> Hike your own hike
>>
>> Brick
>>
>>
>> * From the Pacific Crest Trail Email List |  http://www.backcountry.net
>*
>
>* From the Pacific Crest Trail Email List |  http://www.backcountry.net   *
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 22:56:02 -0800
>From: reynolds@ilan.com
>Subject: Re: [pct-l] Pack Size
>
>Don't confuse the volume of an external with an internal frame pack. In the
>internal, almost everything goes inside. In the external, lots gets carried
>on top or on bottom. Carrying the tent and a sleeping pad on top of a D-3
>is no problem. If a 3900 cc external was busting at the seams then a 5500
>cc internal would be about right for the same equivilent carrying power.
>
>
>* From the Pacific Crest Trail Email List |  http://www.backcountry.net   *
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 08:44:54 +0100
>From: Svein Eriksen <svein.eriksen@Braathens.no>
>Subject: RE: [pct-l] Pack capacity for PCT truhike
>
>I used a 3000+ pack on the PCT. The same on the AT. It's extendable to
>maybe 3500 (actually 60 liters) by raising the lid. I also have two
>small mesh sidepockets. I carried 25+ pounds (with ice axe), including a
>tent (Bibler I-tent), a 20 degree (Feather Friends) bag and a full
>length thermarest. Also normal cooking gear (Pot and a MSR).
>
>Worked fine for me, although getting 8+ days of food and 6 quarts of
>water inside took some work (always carry everything inside). That was
>the most I ever carried on the PCT (actually needed only 7 days of
>food).
>
>I also pack my stuff very compact. Most people (carrying the same as me)
>probably would be more happy with a slightly larger pack, but if you're
>going ultralight the 2600+ is probably enough. The size of your sleeping
>bag is very important!
>
>Getting the pack to be more square. Assume you're thinking about it
>being kind of "barrel-formed" if you stuff it hard. That's always a
>problem even with internal frame packs. You can either stuff it less
>hard or trying to find a configuration that will keep it square. That's
>what I do. My pack has a frame, but it's very weak. I put my sleepingbag
>+ clothes (in a stuffsack) horizontally in the bottom, the thremarest
>vertical beside it, the tent on top of the thermarest. The food bag
>takes the rest of the pack. Then I add the (few) other items were they
>fit. All the main items have a fairly well-defined shape though, and
>helps the pack in keeping it's form.
>
>Svein
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joanne Lennox [SMTP:goforth@cio.net]
> Sent: 26. januar 1999 21:07
> To: pct-mailing list
> Subject: [pct-l] Pack capacity for PCT truhike
>
>
> Emergency request: how big a pack( capacity or size) did you PCT
>thruhikers
> use and need.
>
> I just finished the last seam on my pack and it looks enormous.
>At this
> point I can take in the side seams to alter the depth of the
>pack (front to
> back).
>
> I had put my stuff in a box, measured the box and figured that I
>needed
> that plus capacity for at least 6 quarts water and 5 days of
>food:
> base equipment space =2200cu in
> 5 days of food                 = 660 cu in
> 6quarts of water              = 480 cu in
> total      =3340 cu in
>
> Now I wasn't really careful about the stuff I put in the box (
>some of the
> items that I will take are not gotten or made yet), but I
>approximated with
> the same things that I have carried for years.  And I did not
>load the box
> like TR loads his bear cannister, I figured it was an
>approximation and a
> little space was necessary for those few times that I would have
>more than
> 5 days of food to carry.
>
> I then did some calculations and found out that a pack that
>measured 9
> wide, 29 inches tall, and l3 inches across would give me 3340 cu
>in.
>
> At this point I looked at a lot of boxes, folded some paper,
>measured 6
> packs that I already have, make sketches, designed a bigger pack
>and one
> that tapered and then smaller, than bigger, than smaller, and
>finally in
> frustration just decided to make the 9 x29x13 (with no extension
>at the
> top, I figured I could tie on an extra stuff sack at the top for
>the few
> times that I needed bigger capacity)
>
> As I say, when finally sewed up the last seam and loaded the
>thing, it
> seems enormous, but the capacity is not that far off.  It
>becomes awkward
> without some internal stays because the pack simply "rounds" and
>the weight
> becomes distributed fairly far from your back and therefore the
>center of
> gravity is quite a ways from your body.  This puts a lot of
>strain on the
> back and other joints.
>
> Consequently I am thinking about cutting down the sides two
>inches which
> will give me a pack capacitty of 2639 cu inches.  And I really
>wonder it
> that will be enough.
>
> I am also considering various ways the thing can be loaded to
>make it more
> "square".  Any suggestions?
>
> I still like my old kelty, which is much lighter than the
>internal frame
> packs and should be fine for the trail, and which sits itself up
>for
> loading and you can shift around underneath, and wear ALL the
>weight on
> your hips.
>
> ALL COMMENTS WELCOME
>
> At some Peace
> Goforth
> * From the Pacific Crest Trail Email List |
>http://www.backcountry.net   *
>* From the Pacific Crest Trail Email List |  http://www.backcountry.net   *
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 23:36:48 -0800
>From: Chris Bailey <hikertrash@earthlink.net>
>Subject: [pct-l] Reality check on Sierra snow scare
>
>      >Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 16:59:31 -0800
>>From: "Joanne Lennox" <goforth@cio.net>
>>Subject: [pct-l] What about the tedium and boredom?
>
>>Well, folks I have been ticking off my training miles about 10 miles at a
>time, 3 times a week, and one thing is for sure: ya don't need a lot smarts
>to truck on down the trail...My mind quickly seems to submerge into a
porridge of daydreams,
>schemes, imaginary conversations, and attempts to solve various mundane
>problems.
>
>>What do the people on the list do to cope with the tedium and boredom of
so
>many hours of walking?
>
>>Sometimes, I wonder whether or not I will emerge from a thruhike in a
>permanent state of mind - numbness, akin to what I saw in my mother who
>died of Alzheimers.  If this is true it appears that at least some of the
>people on the list have recovered<G>, and I only have to worry about that
>one if I am on a bad genetic or physiologic timeline. What was your mind
>like at the end of a thruhike of the PCT anyway?
>
>Joanne:
>
>I like what Stephen Pern wrote in his book about his CDT thru-hike:
>
>"I'd drift along for hours with my head full of comforting guff, one
internal channel running highlights of past love affairs, another showing
read-your-stars stuff, like: what would I be doing a year from
now?...Thoughts, when they came condensed around some strange nucleii.
Octopuses, for example, though I've no idea why."
>
>
>>Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 16:16:29 -0800
>>From: "William M. Stenzel" <manjovin@concentric.net>
>>Subject: [pct-l] weather reality
>
>>I prepared for my first long hike on the PCT while living in Alaska; I
>heard glowing reports of trail conditions, packed up my stuff and headed
>south. Imagine my surprise as, riding on Amtrack south through the
>Central Valley, I see snow-capped peaks looming up in the distance!
>> This winter, I live in Davis, CA, and watch those distant mountains day
>by day. Yesterday, the Sierras received 10 feet of snow. There is no way
>I would consider starting a through hike before mid-May without heading
>up to the trail and checking the conditions out myself. Even then I
>would leave prepared for late season storms.
>
>>Living in the shadow of the range gives you added respect for its moods.
>I have only seen the entire valley clear of storms for one day since
>November. Analogy: very view native Nepali have any desire to climb the
>great peaks; they know what the weather is like.
>
>>will
>
>It's starting already.  One big storm in the Sierras and the dire warnings
begin.  If I listened to everyone who gave this kind of advice in '98, I
would have missed out on the one of the most magical parts of my thru-hike:
the Sierra in mid- to late-June in a big snow year.  You do absolutely no
one a favor by trying to scare them into a mid-May start based on one big
storm in January.  It could well mean absolutely nothing.  The snow/water
content measurements I've looked at indicate a normal to below normal year
and so what if it turns big!  It could snow like crazy the next two months,
but with an early, warm spring, be back to normal or below normal by
mid-June for the thru-hiking season.  And even if it becomes big and stays
that way, the Sierras are passable when lots and lots and lots of people
swear up one side and down the other that they are not.  To borrow a word,
Bullfeathers!  Ugh!
>
>* From the Pacific Crest Trail Email List |  http://www.backcountry.net   *
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 00:29:47 -0800
>From: Chris Bailey <hikertrash@earthlink.net>
>Subject: [pct-l] Pack capacity
>
>Joanne:
>
>On our '98 thru-hike:
>
>I used a 2800 cubic inch rucksack (I took the framesheet out and left the
top pocket at home for a weight of 2 lbs. 5 ozs.
>
>Jenelle used a 3000 cubic inch rucksack that weighed 2 lbs. 3 ozs.
>
>We both used our sleeping pads against our backs (inside the packs) for
added rigidity (though this does force more weight further away from your
back).  We always had enough room for our not-very-compact food, though
sometimes just barely, like leaving Independence for Red's Meadow.
>
>Chris.
>* From the Pacific Crest Trail Email List |  http://www.backcountry.net   *
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 00:41:23 -0800
>From: Chris Bailey <hikertrash@earthlink.net>
>Subject: [pct-l] MSR Filters
>
>What does it say about MSR Waterworks filters that people either loath them
or love them, and that both sides are trying to convert the other?  Oh yeah,
we're not supposed to have sides on this list, are we? ; )
>* From the Pacific Crest Trail Email List |  http://www.backcountry.net   *
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 07:44:40 -0500
>From: hudsom@us.ibm.com
>Subject: [pct-l] boredom
>
>On the AT we all had something called "tunes in the head". Apparently if
>you don't entertain your brain it will start entertaining itself. I spent
>three days hiking to "The Battle of New Orleans" (and you make really good
>time at that beat).  For the rest of the crew it varied from Primus to
>Sinatra.... Best advice is to get your brain to pick out a song you like,
>as you'll be "hearing" it for a while....
>
>Skeeter
>
>
>* From the Pacific Crest Trail Email List |  http://www.backcountry.net   *
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 06:55:25 -0600 (CST)
>From: radney@ix.netcom.com
>Subject: [pct-l] PUR filter
>
>The PUR filter can be cleaned in the field. The instructions that come with
>the filter gives the procedure. You don't even need purified water to clean
>the filter. The big BUT is that once you start cleaning the filter it is
time
>to think about replacing the filter element.
>
>Walt
>
>* From the Pacific Crest Trail Email List |  http://www.backcountry.net   *
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 08:13:26 -0500
>From: hudsom@us.ibm.com
>Subject: [pct-l] boredom
>
>Hmmm, next time I will read all the way through the digest version before
>sending off a note. There were more comments along this line that I hadn't
>read yet, including Jim's insightful entries....
>I just had to comment on the line of spending a lot of time alone with your
>thoughts. There was a side effect of this that I ran into late on the trail
>and after I finished; my thoughts while hiking were "non-linear" to say the
>least, and conversations became very disjointed. It was also difficult for
>me to follow along sometimes as my brain would be trying to jump ahead of
>whatever discussion was taking place. The other thru-hikers seemed to
>understand, but it sometimes took a real effort to chat with non-hikers...
>
>Skeeter
>
>
>* From the Pacific Crest Trail Email List |  http://www.backcountry.net   *
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 09:06:08 -0500
>From: "Mayer, Jim" <JMayer@crt.xerox.com>
>Subject: RE: [pct-l] MSR Filters
>
>Loathe them or love them?  I don't know if I'd go that far :-)  Here are
>some possibilities though:
>
>(1) There are two flavors of MSR filter out there.  The "Waterworks" and
the
>"Miniworks".  The Waterworks has a membrane filter element after the
regular
>filter.  It is also a bit heavier.  The membrane filter cannot be cleaned,
>so perhaps a dirty membrane filter explains some of the poor performance
>people seem to see.
>
>(2) I seem to reacall that earlier versions of the Waterworks had a problem
>with "vapor lock".  While I don't know the exact mechanism, the end result
>was apparently frustrating.
>
>(3) Having used both a PUR Hiker and a MSR Miniworks there is no question
in
>my mind that the Hiker pumps faster, at least when the filter element is
>new.  When compared "head to head" against a PUR Hiker with a new filter
the
>Miniworks just feels aenemic.
>
>(4) If you don't use bottles and/or bags with a Nalgene wide mouth fitting
>the ergonomics of the MSR filter would be painful.  On the other hand, if
>you DO use bottles with the right fitting the ergonomics are great!
>
>I like my MSR, but if I was planning for a thru-hike this year I might
start
>experimenting with the PUR Pioneer.  The Pioneer has a couple of big
>potential advantages:
>
>(1) light weight
>(2) it still screws on to my bottles
>(3) the filter elements are so light that one or two can be easily carried
>as spares.
>
>Since I've never used one I have no personal experience with how they hold
>up in the field.
>
>I really like the idea of being able to "rejuvinate" my filter by cleaning
>or by carrying a (light and compact) spare element.
>
>- -- Jim
>
>- -----Original Message-----
>From: Chris Bailey [mailto:hikertrash@earthlink.net]
>Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 1999 2:41 AM
>To: 'PCT List'
>Subject: [pct-l] MSR Filters
>
>
>What does it say about MSR Waterworks filters that people either loath them
>or love them, and that both sides are trying to convert the other?  Oh
yeah,
>we're not supposed to have sides on this list, are we? ; )
>* From the Pacific Crest Trail Email List |  http://www.backcountry.net   *
>* From the Pacific Crest Trail Email List |  http://www.backcountry.net   *
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 09:21:57 -0500
>From: "Mayer, Jim" <JMayer@crt.xerox.com>
>Subject: RE: [pct-l] MSR Filters
>
>Ouch... I don't know how that last message got out without going through my
>spelling checker.  I just can't "reacall"... perhaps if I'd spent more time
>with a dictionary as a kid my spelling wouldn't be so "aenemic".  I guess I
>should go hiking and "rejuvinate" my brain cells!
>
>- -- Jim
>
>- -----Original Message-----
>From: Mayer, Jim [mailto:JMayer@crt.xerox.com]
>
>Loathe them or love them?  I don't know if I'd go that far :-)  Here are
>some possibilities though:
>
>* From the Pacific Crest Trail Email List |  http://www.backcountry.net   *
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 07:44:40 -0500
>From: hudsom@us.ibm.com
>Subject: [pct-l] boredom
>
>On the AT we all had something called "tunes in the head". Apparently if
>you don't entertain your brain it will start entertaining itself. I spent
>three days hiking to "The Battle of New Orleans" (and you make really good
>time at that beat).  For the rest of the crew it varied from Primus to
>Sinatra.... Best advice is to get your brain to pick out a song you like,
>as you'll be "hearing" it for a while....
>
>Skeeter
>
>
>* From the Pacific Crest Trail Email List |  http://www.backcountry.net   *
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 08:13:26 -0500
>From: hudsom@us.ibm.com
>Subject: [pct-l] boredom
>
>Hmmm, next time I will read all the way through the digest version before
>sending off a note. There were more comments along this line that I hadn't
>read yet, including Jim's insightful entries....
>I just had to comment on the line of spending a lot of time alone with your
>thoughts. There was a side effect of this that I ran into late on the trail
>and after I finished; my thoughts while hiking were "non-linear" to say the
>least, and conversations became very disjointed. It was also difficult for
>me to follow along sometimes as my brain would be trying to jump ahead of
>whatever discussion was taking place. The other thru-hikers seemed to
>understand, but it sometimes took a real effort to chat with non-hikers...
>
>Skeeter
>
>
>* From the Pacific Crest Trail Email List |  http://www.backcountry.net   *
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 07:35:22 -0700
>From: Mark Tabb <mtabb@pcisys.net>
>Subject: [pct-l] Re: What about the tedium and boredom?
>
>> From: Paul A Magnanti <pmags@juno.com>
>> Subject: Re: [pct-l] What about the tedium and boredom?
>
>...
>
>>     I imagine when you thru-hike the PCT (a journey I hope to make
>> someday), you will find many things out about yourself.  Sure, you might
>> be bored at times, and hiking every day does become tedious sometimes.
>> But overall, you will do much thinking.
>> You will think about things that have long been buried in your head, you
>> will question what means the most to you, and you  will think about what
>> food you crave the most (Hey..not all the thinking is serious!)
>
>I remember singing that Village People song (you know the one)
>everytime I was approaching a town, except that the letters were
>replaced by AYCE (all you can eat).
>
>I told two other thruhikers about this, and they hated me for it,
>because they then started doing the same thing.
>
>Mark
>* From the Pacific Crest Trail Email List |  http://www.backcountry.net   *
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 10:00:14 EST
>From: VTGRDNSHED@aol.com
>Subject: Re: [pct-l] Re: What about the tedium and boredom?
>
>mtabb@pcisys.net writes:
>
><< I remember singing that Village People song (you know the one)
> everytime I was approaching a town, except that the letters were
> replaced by AYCE (all you can eat).I told two other thruhikers about this,
>and they hated me for it, because they then started doing the same thing.
>>
>
>AARRGGHHHH....and now you've got the whole darn list humming along... :-)
>
>Cindy Miller
>* From the Pacific Crest Trail Email List |  http://www.backcountry.net   *
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 08:52:51 -0700
>From: Margo Chisholm <pctcoach@sopris.net>
>Subject: Re: [pct-l] Re: What about the tedium and boredom?
>
>> << I remember singing that Village People song (you know the one)
>>  everytime I was approaching a town, except that the letters were
>>  replaced by AYCE (all you can eat).I told two other thruhikers about
this,
>> and they hated me for it, because they then started doing the same thing.
>>
>>
>> AARRGGHHHH....and now you've got the whole darn list humming along... :-)
>
>It's definitely going to play in my head all day, especially as I
>treadmill my way for a couple of hours in the gym. It's snowing hard
>enough here that I'll stay inside to train, and I guess the Village
>People will be my companions. Yikes!!!
>
>Namaste, m (PCTCoach)
>>
>
>- --
>Margo Chisholm
>The Freedom Coach
>Partnering you in having freedom in all areas of your life
>970-704-9336    fax 970-704-9346
>margo@tothesummit.com
>http://www.tothesummit.com
>
>"It takes courage to grow up and turn out to be who you really are."
>- -- e.e. Cummings
>
>
>* From the Pacific Crest Trail Email List |  http://www.backcountry.net   *
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 11:03:30 -0500
>From: "Farler, Tim (tfarler)" <tfarler@harris.com>
>Subject: [pct-l] What about the tedium and boredom?
>
>I've never been on the PCT (YET! I will thru-hike the PCT one of these
years),
>but I've done a thru-hike of the AT and I do a lot of 1 week backpacking
trips.
>For me, tedium and boredom have never been an issue while hiking.  There is
>simply no more pleasant  way to spend time than to hike through the woods
and
>over the mountains (on the AT, emphasize "through the woods"), no matter
for
>how many months.
>
>For the first couple of days of any trip, there is a period where I have
yet to
>disengage that module of my mind that normally deals with the fast paced
world
>that I 'usually' (I almost used the word 'normally', but I think that gives
the
>wrong connotation) live in, and I do sometimes have periods of boredom.
This is
>the period where the evil songs invade my brain and won't leave for hours
at a
>time.  On my thru-hike I popped in and out of this phase for a couple of
weeks
>or so.  The one song I remember being unable to escape from was Cher's
"Gypsies,
>Tramps, and Thieves".
>
>But after that, the 'grasping' part of my mind takes a back seat and the
>perceptive part of my mind seems to expand out around me, and I enjoy just
being
>aware of everything going by, and contemplating what exists around me, even
for
>months at a time.  I don't take a radio or books when I hike, those are
some of
>the things I like to get away from.
>
>Florida Tim
>* From the Pacific Crest Trail Email List |  http://www.backcountry.net   *
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 11:29:16 EST
>From: HikerQs@aol.com
>Subject: Re: [pct-l] Re: thoughts while walking
>
>In a message dated 99-01-26 09:44:57 EST, pctcoach@sopris.net writes:
>
><< Songs I hadn't heard in years floated out of memory.  (some
> > got REALLY annoying...)
>
> Yup, and then then run through my mind and my vocal chords endlessly,
> sometimes for days at a time. Hard to get unstuck once one of those old
> tunes gets imbedded! >>
>
>The worst, the WORST song ever to get stuck in one's head, INMO, is the
>"Jeopardy" theme. It's monotonous, potentially continuous, and the same
>cadence as a good hiking pace (a hiking stick or sticks only makes matters
>worse). I don't know how that one ever gets into my skull, but mercy is it
a
>drag. Don't believe me? Then I double-dawg dare you to try it.
>
>Meese
>* From the Pacific Crest Trail Email List |  http://www.backcountry.net   *
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 12:21:40 -0600
>From: Andrew Yip <AndrewY@micrografx.com>
>Subject: RE: [pct-l] MSR Filters
>
>>(4) If you don't use bottles and/or bags with a Nalgene wide mouth fitting
>>the ergonomics of the MSR filter would be painful.  On the other hand, if
>>you DO use bottles with the right fitting the ergonomics are great!
>
>I spent several frustrating days trying to use one with a narrow mouth
>bottle. Since there's no outlet tube, you just have to hold the filter over
>the bottle, but since the handle is on the side, every time you pump the
>filter moves away from the mouth. So if you're planning to use any sort of
>narrow mouth bottle I would stay away (unless you can come up with some
>crafty way to add an outlet tube)
>
>- -Yip
>* From the Pacific Crest Trail Email List |  http://www.backcountry.net   *
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 12:28:26 -0600
>From: Andrew Yip <AndrewY@micrografx.com>
>Subject: [pct-l] reading matter
>
>After following the thread about boredom, etc. I was thinking about what
I'm
>going to bring as far as reading matter. I usually read a lot of travel
>essays (Into Thin Air, etc) but that doesn't really seem appropriate on the
>trail - I'd rather be thinking about where I am. I realize that tastes vary
>wildly, but I'd still like to hear what sort of things people read. It
seems
>like philosophically oriented matter might be a good idea, as that would
>give you plenty to think about during the day.
>
>Thanks,
>Yip
>* From the Pacific Crest Trail Email List |  http://www.backcountry.net   *
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 10:35:53 -0800 (PST)
>From: Jeffrey Olson <jjolson@u.washington.edu>
>Subject: Re: [pct-l] reading matter
>
>On one month long section hike I read half of War and Peace.  On another
>month long hike I bought books at resorts.  Bad mistake.  I was hiking six
>to eight hours a day and had lots of reading time.  I wanted small print,
>and ended up with a biography of Jackie Onassis.
>
>I also didn't want anything particularly challenging.  I thought enough as
>it was while hiking...
>
>Jeffrey Olson
>
>
>
>* From the Pacific Crest Trail Email List |  http://www.backcountry.net   *
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 10:43:13 -0000
>From: "Chris Kilmer" <kilmer@isomedia.com>
>Subject: Re: [pct-l] reading matter
>
>Anything by John Muir.  Helps you to remember the beauty and importance of
>where you are even when you are tired, cold, hungry etc..
>
>- -----Original Message-----
>From: Andrew Yip <AndrewY@micrografx.com>
>To: 'pct-l@edina.hack.net' <pct-l@edina.hack.net>
>Date: Wednesday, January 27, 1999 6:59 PM
>Subject: [pct-l] reading matter
>
>
>>After following the thread about boredom, etc. I was thinking about what
>I'm
>>going to bring as far as reading matter. I usually read a lot of travel
>>essays (Into Thin Air, etc) but that doesn't really seem appropriate on
the
>>trail - I'd rather be thinking about where I am. I realize that tastes
vary
>>wildly, but I'd still like to hear what sort of things people read. It
>seems
>>like philosophically oriented matter might be a good idea, as that would
>>give you plenty to think about during the day.
>>
>>Thanks,
>>Yip
>>* From the Pacific Crest Trail Email List |  http://www.backcountry.net
*
>>
>
>* From the Pacific Crest Trail Email List |  http://www.backcountry.net   *
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 10:45:57 -0800
>From: Jeff Jones <jjonz@gte.net>
>Subject: [pct-l] What about the tedium and boredom?
>
>Though I don't see his name mentioned much on this list, I still think
>Colin Fletcher put it best.  A short quote from the chapter of "The
>Complete Walker" titled 'Why Walk':
>
>    ... I nearly always find after a while that I am beginning to think
>more clearly.  Yet "think" does not seem to be quite the right word.
>Sometimes, when it is a matter of making a choice, I do not believe I
>decide what to do so much as discover what I have decided.  It is as if
>my mind, set free by space and solitude and oiled by the body's easy
>rhythm, swings open and releases thoughts it has already formulated.
>
>My 3 months on the PCT were my key to being able to achieve this mental
>state.  Let the mind go where it will.  Boredom never occurred.  When I
>switched to triathlons, long hours in the pool, on the bike, or running
>were never boring.  I still find that even short hikes (20 minutes or
>more) will bring back this mental state.  For me, it just took a lot of
>practice.  Now that I've made my life too busy to indulge in extended
>activities day after day, I'm satified with smaller doses.  Well, maybe
>not satisfied, but willing to make the trade off.  It makes those
>smaller does all the more special.
>                   Jeff Jones
>
>* From the Pacific Crest Trail Email List |  http://www.backcountry.net   *
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 10:51:23 -0800
>From: Birgitte Jensen <bjensen4@juno.com>
>Subject: [pct-l] permit rumor?
>
>"Jim Owen" writes:
>> There's a story that
>>came out of the recent Gatherings about a ranger (NPS??, USFS??) in
>>California who found out that the PCTA could issue single permits for
>>PCT thruhikers for the whole trail.  While this is second hand
>information
>>it seems [snip] If I got the story straight, their theory was that
>"thruhikers" should
>> have to get a permit for every National Park and Forest that they pass
>through.
>
>     Doesn't look like you got the alleged "story" straight, Jim! <g> The
>PCTA and land management agencies have good communication (so some ranger
>is unlikely to have to "find out" about permit-issue). _Nobody_ has to
>"get a permit for every [area] they pass through" - it's one
>permit-per-trip for everybody: backpackers, horsemen, you name it. (all
>of us can trot back/forth between National Forests, Parks as many times
>as we want on a hike on a _single_ entry-point overnight permit. The only
>exception is the additional sticker recently required for the Mt Whitney
>Zone; it's attached to your single permit, that's all.
>     Maybe things are different on the AT where you hiked (I don't
>remember they were when I hiked there, but it was awhile ago)....?
>
>> Why is it that some people think it's acceptable to make life
>>more difficult for others?
>
>    "A Ranger's Lament" for sure! - if unfounded rumors like the one you
>posted start circulating on the internet.  Agencies're understaffed as it
>is without having to deal with alot of worried, angry calls (based on
>idle gossip) saying "Hey! Where do you guys get off trying to destroy the
>sport of distance-hiking, harump!" - stuff like that. <VBG>
>     From what _I_ understand, thruhikers are still given "special
>treatment" permit-wise, to make their trip logistics easier, same as
>always.....        bj
>
>
>___________________________________________________________________
>You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
>Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
>or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
>* From the Pacific Crest Trail Email List |  http://www.backcountry.net   *
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 13:59:30 -0500
>From: "Mayer, Jim" <JMayer@crt.xerox.com>
>Subject: RE: [pct-l] MSR Filters
>
>Well...
>
>Actually, the little nib at the bottom of the filter takes standard
aquarium
>tubing, so you could just cut a piece and pump away.  The filter really is
>designed to work with Nalgene style wide mouth bottles though.
>
>- -- Jim
>
>- -----Original Message-----
>From: Andrew Yip [mailto:AndrewY@micrografx.com]
>Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 1999 12:22 PM
>To: 'PCT List'
>Subject: RE: [pct-l] MSR Filters
>
>
>>(4) If you don't use bottles and/or bags with a Nalgene wide mouth fitting
>>the ergonomics of the MSR filter would be painful.  On the other hand, if
>>you DO use bottles with the right fitting the ergonomics are great!
>
>I spent several frustrating days trying to use one with a narrow mouth
>bottle. Since there's no outlet tube, you just have to hold the filter over
>the bottle, but since the handle is on the side, every time you pump the
>filter moves away from the mouth. So if you're planning to use any sort of
>narrow mouth bottle I would stay away (unless you can come up with some
>crafty way to add an outlet tube)
>
>- -Yip
>* From the Pacific Crest Trail Email List |  http://www.backcountry.net   *
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 11:14:50 -0800
>From: Brick Robbins <brick@fastpack.com>
>Subject: Re: [pct-l] reading matter
>
>Take something you don't mind cutting up, then keep the bulk of it in your
>drift box and only tear out whatever you think you will read in the next
>section.
>
>I hiked from sunup to sundown, so I read 20 minutes at mid day and then by
>candlelight at night, so bring some candles!!
>
>I was OK for the first 6 weeks, then my brain rebelled and I needed
>something to occupy my mind. I also think that a small tape player would
>have been nice. I like to listen to non-english books on tape as a way of
>improving my language skills. As long as I know the basic story from an
>english version I find I pick stuff up from listening to something over and
>over (and over.....).
>* From the Pacific Crest Trail Email List |  http://www.backcountry.net   *
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 12:24:27 -0800
>From: reynolds@ilan.com
>Subject: [pct-l] Worst song to get stuck
>
>Reynolds' curse on those who don't carry a bear canister and lose their
>foods to a bear is:
>
>We will grab you by the scruff of the neck, transport you to Disneyland and
>nail your feet to the
>floor of "It's a Small World" where you'll sing that song forever.
>
>"It's a small world after all.
>It's a small world after all.
>It's a small world after all.
>It's a small, small world."
>
>The bear canister, don't leave Kennedy meadows without it!
>
>
>* From the Pacific Crest Trail Email List |  http://www.backcountry.net   *
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 16:36:09 -0500
>From: Owen <jrowen@ibm.net>
>Subject: Re: [pct-l] permit rumor?
>
>Birgitte Jensen wrote:
>>
>>  Doesn't look like you got the alleged "story" straight, Jim! <g> The
>> PCTA and land management agencies have good communication (so some
>> ranger is unlikely to have to "find out" about permit-issue).
>
>Don't be obtuse, bj - I've worked with Federal agencies for 40 years
>and the NPS/USFS are NOT the most efficient agencies with regard to
>"good communications". Don't try to kid someone who's been there.  The
>working level grunt rarely gets the word about that kind of inter-agency
>agreement until they run into the problems caused by said agreements.
>Like the ranger in Oregon who tried to force a thruhiker off the PCT
>because he didn't believe that the permit issued by PCTA was valid.
>That was a year or so ago - I'd imagine that the word has spread by
>now.
>> Nobody_ has to
>> "get a permit for every [area] they pass through" - it's one
>> permit-per-trip for everybody: backpackers, horsemen, you name it.
>
>Yeah - that is the way it is now - but it wasn't always so.  And there
>are those who'd like to see it revert to forcing hikers to get - what
>was it - 5(?) permits rather than one.
>
>>      Maybe things are different on the AT where you hiked (I don't
>> remember they were when I hiked there, but it was awhile ago)....?
>
>Really?   ,:-)
>
>> > Why is it that some people think it's acceptable to make life
>> >more difficult for others?
>>
>>     "A Ranger's Lament" for sure! - if unfounded rumors like the one
>> you posted start circulating on the internet.
>
>You should know by now that I don't deal in rumor, inaccuracies,
>innuendo or insinuation - if it was an "unfounded rumor" (in other
>words, if I couldn't prove it) - it wouldn't have made the cut.  The
>"If I got the story straight" phrase preceded the only speculation in
>that post - and there wasn't all that much in the way of speculation
>there anyway.
>
>> Agencies're understaffed as it
>> is without having to deal with alot of worried, angry calls (based on
>> idle gossip) saying "Hey! Where do you guys get off trying to destroy
>> the sport of distance-hiking, harump!" - stuff like that. <VBG>
>
>I don't think you have to worry about that - I used that as a single
>example of one person who believes that thruhikers don't deserve
>"special treatment".  I didn't paint the NPS as the problem - or name
>the ranger involved.  So what are you cranked up about?
>
>>      From what _I_ understand, thruhikers are still given "special
>> treatment" permit-wise, to make their trip logistics easier, same as
>> always.....        bj
>
>Same as always?   You've been on that side of the fence too long, bj.
>You ought to try it from this side.  It's a different perspective.
>
>Now - you've bitched and moaned and complained about anyone who says,
>implies or even thinks that you might be a ranger. So let's just put it
>on the table and ask the question - Is you is, or is you ain't a ranger?
>I don't really care one way or the other, but I've long since tired of
>the "secrecy" about it.  It isn't friendly.  I'm looking forward to your
>answer - it would be nice to get a straight, substantive answer from
>you. For me, it would be a first.  :-)
>
>Walk softly,
>Jim
>
>* From the Pacific Crest Trail Email List |  http://www.backcountry.net   *
>
>------------------------------
>
>End of pct-l-digest V1 #666
>***************************
>
>* From the Pacific Crest Trail Email List |  http://www.backcountry.net  *

* From the Pacific Crest Trail Email List |  http://www.backcountry.net   *

==============================================================================