Re: [pct-l] Banning Horses? Nah!

[bjensen4@juno.com (Birgitte Jensen)]

On Fri, 8 Jan 1999 13:37:35 -0800 reynolds@ilan.com writes:
>BJ, I think you are in error concerning the percentages of packer use. 

    Tom (?),there wasn't any mention of "percentages", to pick-a-nit
<g>.. It sounds like  you're referring to my generalization that private
horsemen (as opposed to packers) _tend_ to make their forays into the
backcountry as overnight camping trips , is that true? Generalization is
the keyword here: many private riders take short "dayhikes" of course,
and packers also provide complete camping trips for their clients. My
post just mentioned that most of the time, the commercial stock we see is
hauling dunnage and returning to the pack station as soon as it's
delivered. Those long pack strings are used often when it's possible to
coordinate a couple of "drops" in nearby locations (instead of making
separate trips to the same area in roughly the same time-frame)- and too,
sometimes the groups being supplied are humungous. I remember a couple
years ago when Honeymoon Lake (a really, really big - and popular - spot
off Pine Creek) was literally "taken over" by a Sierra Club multi-group
composed mostly of middle-aged ladies seeking to raise their self-esteem
in the backcountry. No sarcasm intended here; it's what one of the group
leaders told me.... Their dunnage took several hauls of a large # mules
to effect.
    Of course, packers "advertise" horsepacking trips. Everybody
advertises nowadays, even doctors and lawyers. Somehow, the word
"commercial" taints horsepackers in the eyes of some hikers, which seems
ludicrous to me. Mountain guides and equipment companies change $$ for
their wares and broadcast the fact too. Members of this list have been
known to try to make a buck off the thruhiking craze/bear
paranoia/whatever, and nobody's outraged...

>I wonder if there are actual figures?

    I don't think "chunching the numbers" works very well in determining
who's hauling what and why; there are just too many variables. Just
because a "typical" pack animal may be limited to a maximum of 150 lbs
doesn't mean he will actually be carrying it (or even half that!), you
see. Depends alot on the bulk/balance of the panniers' contents, the
individual animal  (on a particular day/trail), logistics of the trip,
etc etc. And a haul may include mounted clients, a resupply for a
thruhiker, camping gear for a church group, _and_ garbage being taken out
from a fishing camp, etc etc. Not all pack strings are identical, just
like not all hikers have the same story, no?
   It's absolutely true that the most $$ is to be made from Complete
Package trips: they _cost_ an arm/leg more. But the majority of
hoof-traffic is dunnage hauling, the lowest-rate bread n' butter service.
Also, the most visible hauls are the packaged rider trips, since they
happen during backcountry "business hours" along the most popular scenic
trails. That fact probably gives folks the impression that commercial
packers spend all their time entertaining rich tourists on multi-day
camping trips. Lord knows, that would be fine with the packers (if you
were in their shoes, you'd feel that way too) but not that many people
are willing to come up with the $$ those trips cost....

>To put it simply. I'm willing to walk in horse shit so that my mom [or
>yours] can take a horse to the lake but I'm not willing to walk in 
>shit because Mike Morgan [Bishop Pack Station] can't run a business.

  Uh, I'm not sure what your hostile-sounding point is <g>; I too, am
willing to "walk in [equine - I draw the line at dog or people] shit" so
that  moms can have a nice Wilderness Experience. I'll even grit my teeth
at the toilet paper and other garbage and the crowds near popular TH's so
that less-hardy outdoorspeople than ourselves can get their shot at
Whitney, the JMT, whatever. There are too many people demanding their
"rights" to backcountry use and we all suffer. I was merely trying to
halt what I perceived as an anti-packer lynch mob attitude from building
on this list. Since (I assume) there are no commercial packers
subscribed, and no vocal horse people, I took it upon my courageous
little shoulders to speak up for fair play, common sense, and all that
good stuff....  Too much speculation (and jumping to conclusions), too
much accusation, not enough honest communication seems to be the root of
the "hiker vs packer" controversy, as well as other disagreements, ahem
<g>!
    BTW, in puffing up the packers' role vs private horsemen, it occurred
to me that the less-informed might believe I was damning the latter: not
so, emphatically! I am a horsewoman myself, tho I "ride shank's mare" in
the backcountry, and more than once I've longed for a good trail horse
especially in the South Sierra's endless stretches of scrub. Thinking of
some of the enormous organized trail rides, and the careless and/or
inexperienced riders of my acquaintance, I felt it worthwhile to mention
that not being "in business" is not a guarantee of sainthood, ahem...  My
apologies to any of my fellow animal enthusiasts who took offense, if
any.
     No apologies needed to my fellow hikers; the "slothful" (I think
that was the word I used) among you  will blush and the rest will feel,
rightly, I never mentioned them. I had no idea that (as one fellow
stated) "[using a packer for resupply] would be contrary to the entire
reason for thruhiking". I can't see why that would be so: folks use the
post office, and their friends; they pay resort personnel and misc others
for such services (like rides to THs etc). If there's a "no thruhike
shall be contaminated with livestock" clause in the Thuhiker Bible <g>
that's news to me. I was under the impression that everybody was free to
hike their own hike, but whatever (wasn't some guy on this list doing the
entire trail _on horseback_? - and he was one of the packer-haters,  as I
recall). Along with all the rest of the theory, somebody ought to publish
a list of all the Rules, so that everybody can keep their hikes "pure"
<g> . I'm sorry if my post made you guys (who have/do use a
packer-service for resupply) squirm; it's good I didn't mention names,
huh <g>! Jeez, I don't even remember the names of the ones I met on the
trail - and like I said, I had no idea it was verboten. I'd love to avail
myself of a packer, but I can't afford the expense (and there's the
vanity-issue as well <g>)  _I_ don't care at all whether other hikers do,
so obviously, I haven't "insulted" anybody....
    Hope this clears things up!              bj

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