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[pct-l] Re: zip stoves

 "Michael Vazquez" writes:
> I sense this [open-fire regulation] would then apply to alcohol
>type stoves including the homemade tin can type? 

Right, in some instances. You gotta be able to shut off the flame (to
avoid it's getting out-of-control). However, I _believe_ most rangers
would use the interpretation that a small amount of alcohol burning in a
container isn't as dangerous as the tinder burned in a Zip - when the
flame is out in the alcohol, it's not likely to be quietly smoldering so
it could flare up later :-) (And the "spark issue" is pretty important,
too...) See, the thing is, when wood/moss/other organic matter, etc
burns, it doesn't have to be putting out an obvious flame, and it's not
as much a cut/dried matter of when it's Out completely - and it's
trickier (does anyone bother?) to remove every bit of fuel from the
campsite when the hiker leaves... 

>  Also, would this include candle lanterns as well.

Oh yes, I would think so, theoretically. In practice, I doubt if one
would have a problem with a candle lantern hanging in their tent (and
again, you can readily determine if the "fuel" is out, there's no
sparking, and one would probably be packing out every bit of fuel.
However, if you set a burning candle out in a No Fires area, you'd
probably deserve a citation.
   The "cut-off" valve rule isn't the end-all; it's not an arbitrary
distinction, either. Seems to me & the FS (& the guys from this list who
privately e-mailed me) that it's Obvious that 1) burning pine needles,
sticks, & stuff, which 2) throws off sparks & 3) can seem extinguished,
but re-ignite later &4) tends not to be packed out entirely, constitutes
an Open Fire. Gosh, I don't have a personal vendetta against Zip stoves:
when they first came out, I was thrilled....seem to be a terrific idea
for people who camp in places where other folks might be using the ol'
fire rings, etc..  BTW, the No Fires Above (9,000' whatever) signs  are
_not_ the same regulation as No Firewood Gathering. The former is to
protect the fragile alpine environment from open fires, mainly; tundra,
for instance, takes much longer to regenerate than a below-timberline
forest. Bringing Your Own above timberline doesn't circumvent the
regulation, it's just going to extra trouble to break it.      bj

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