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[pct-l] Poopin in the woods book..
- Subject: [pct-l] Poopin in the woods book..
- From: David Crosby <cgdavid@ix.netcom.com>
- Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 01:11:57 -0600 (CST)
The Poopin in the woods book is also at http://www.barnesandnoble.com -
and I don't work for them, either...
David Crosby
At 12:00 AM 2/19/98 -0600, you wrote:
>
>pct-l-digest Thursday, February 19 1998 Volume 01 : Number 394
>
>
>
>In this issue:
>
> [pct-l] Poopin in the woods book..
> [pct-l] Heidi-Cindy Ross' "Journey on the Crest"
> [pct-l] Tp and associated matters
> [pct-l] re: ice axes
> [pct-l] Re: Stove Tech, Tyveck
> [pct-l] Re: pct-l-digest V1 #393
> [pct-l] re: Kelly Flowers
> [pct-l] tent materials
> [pct-l] Stove Fuel Accidents
> Re: [pct-l] Stove Fuel Accidents
> RE: [pct-l] Fuels
> [pct-l] ice axe training
> Re: [pct-l] Stove Fuel Accidents
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 23:31:36 -0800 (PST)
>From: Craig Giffen <cgiffen@teleport.com>
>Subject: [pct-l] Poopin in the woods book..
>
>>inordinate concentrations of people like at Whitney Meadows, or places where
>>it would only accumulate, or most any semi-popular backcountry destination,
>>obviously....). Does anyone out there know or has anyone read anything on
>>this topic?
>>Kevin Corcoran
>
>
>
>Actually there is a book that deals with this very topic. It is called "How
>to Shit in the Woods" by Kathleen Meyer. There is also a version of the
>book that has "non-offensive cover".
>
>
>http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0898156270/4465-3900944-439726
>
>
>You can find it at this link, and no...I don't work for Amazon.com...unless
>they want to hire me. He He
>
>
>Craig
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>On a different rant....One thing that really irked me was people using soap
>in the mountains. I think that biodegradeable stuff should not be sold, or
>at least marketed in a different fashion. Too many people read the label
>and see that it is biodegradeable, "Oh so that means I can just wash with it
>in the stream". No No No. It seems like people don't read the directions,
>the stuff is worthless unless you bury it a foot deep in the ground! You
>would not believe how many soapsuds I found pooled up in the lakes of the
>Sierras. It was pretty sad.
>
>Craig
>
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>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 08:19:00 -0500
>From: Ken Marlow <kmarlow@ngs.org>
>Subject: [pct-l] Heidi-Cindy Ross' "Journey on the Crest"
>
>Heidi,
>I just finished Cindy Ross's "Journey on the Crest". It was wonderful to
>read her accounts, particularly her travels in '82 when we did the trail.
>You asked
>me what I thought about her crossing the Sierra that year. In the book, she
>mentioned only one group ahead of her that made it through. That was the
>group of three guys somewhat led by the wirey British chap. They must have
>left about the same time I did (April Fool's Day). I first met them up near
>San Jacinto and latter at Lake Isabella. Somehow, several thru-hikers all
>conviened at Lake Isabella somewhere around mid-May, where we all heard
>about the avalanche and white-out conditions. I sold my topos of the
>Southern Sierra to those guys before hiking along Hwy 395.
> I think it was late June when she got to the same area. When did you
>reach the lake? I didn't know until reading the book that it was a record
>year for snowfall, 40 plus feet. I was somewhat jealous when reading about
>the somewhat patchy snow conditions in the Sierra at that time. I suppose
>that wouldn't have been the case had I gone up there in mid-May. I got back
>on at Echo Lake. The snow conditions there sounded similar to her accounts.
>Her climb from the resupply at Whitney Portal sounded insane! Ouch!
> Thanks for mentioning this book. I forgot all about it. It sure brought
>back a lot of memories! Nothing hit home more than when she mentioned the
>pull back to the trail, once returning home. It's all I can think about.
>Maybe in the next 2-5 years.
>
>- -Ken Marlow Class of '82
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>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 11:27:26 -0500
>From: "Vaughn, Ron" <RSV@crai.com>
>Subject: [pct-l] Tp and associated matters
>
>I am really enjoying what everyone is saying about tp and feces disposal
>on the trail. We all have something to learn from the discussion.
>
>I think that it is a reasonable standard for hikers to pack out used tp.
>Dan's right, we carried it in, and we can carry it out. I guess by that
>standard we should carry out our feces, but that seems unnecessary if
>proper disposal techniques are used. I know that in the Grand Canyon
>hikers are asked to carry out their feces. So, from now on I'll carry
>mine out (sigh, yet another item to carry).
>
>My experience with seeing tp in the woods is that I usually see it in an
>area that is heavily used by people on short trips, or thru-hikers
>without much experience (like Georgia on the AT). The amount I saw was
>always not much, which led me to believe that when I saw it, it was the
>result of poor disposal techniques. I guess I've heard that animals
>will dig it up, but I've never seen it. Is the animal digging up tp a
>trail myth, or has someone actually seen this in action? What animal
>would dig up to in a six inch deep hole?
>
>By the way, this proper disposal issue leads me to ask about the origins
>of guiardia. In the early 70s no one ever heard of water filters. Now
>they are required. Who or what happened?
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>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 11:54:26
>From: "Joe Risser, M.D., M.P.H." <jrisser@ibm.net>
>Subject: [pct-l] re: ice axes
>
>Svein, I just hiked a particularly troublesome leg of the pct this weekend
>along San Gorgonio Mountains and found a short, cheap & simple ice ax was
>very useful. More troublesome was the deep, soft snowdrifts which made
>walking without snowshoes impossible.
>
>A ranger in the national park said that climbers have had difficulty with
>snow ridges lying a foot or two beneath the surface...hikers stomp through
>the surface snow, hit the ice, and go tumbling down the mountain. He added
>that they expect heavy snow for the next 2 to 3 months due to El Nino storms.
>
>There's a useful website with up-to-date info on hiking that area, search
>"Gorgonio Mountain Volunteer Association" under Yahoo & you'll find it.
>
>I hope this helps.
>
>
>
>I would like to know what type of ice axe that are recommended for the
>PCT. I assume weight is the most important issue.
>
>Any recommendations / prices.
>
>As I'm from Norway it would be convenient for me to buy one (they are
>cheaper in the US) when I leave fro the PCT. Is early May a good season
>for buying an Ice Ax?
>
>Svein
>
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>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 14:30:39 -0600 (CST)
>From: radney@ix.netcom.com
>Subject: [pct-l] Re: Stove Tech, Tyveck
>
>On 02/17/98 16:27:26 you wrote:
>
>Hi Carl,
>
>Walt & I also used a Wisperlight, it'd worked great!
>
>>One guy we met last year, Lynn, I forgot his last name
>
>His name is Lynne Wheldon
>>used some sort of solid sterno pellets, a thin piece of aluminum, and 3
>rocks to hold up the pot. Does anyone know more about these?
>
>Yes, they are great too and very light. Walt said you can get them at most
>military surplus stores. On the East Coast we see them at the "Sunny
>Surplus."
>
>>Seemed very light, no fuel container, easy to see how much
>is left, etc.
>>
>>Lynn also had really light tarp material, some sort of silicone coated
>>ripstop nylon. I'm not sure if its lighter than tyvek or not.
>
>We are pretty sure Lynne was using "Tyvek" a thin insulating material used
>in houseing and also by many laboratories for uniforms. This material is
>extra light, durable and you can now purchase jackets, lab uniforms,and
>other miscellaneous items. DuPont is the maker and they sell the uniforms.
>We sent away for information, but didn't want to buy "100" lab uniforms
>(their minimum!) I don't remember is Quest Outfitters sells any of this
>material now or not. Their number is 1-800-359-6931.
>
>>p.s. Does anyone have an email address for Tick, aka Jason, pct 97 ??
>>
>We haven't heard from Tick since Vermillion -- would also like his address,
>both snail and e-mail!
>
>Happy Trails, Pat
>
>
>
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>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 12:28:58 -0800
>From: Dave Gomberg <gomberg@wcf.com>
>Subject: [pct-l] Re: pct-l-digest V1 #393
>
>>Giardia can be spread by beavers.. hence one of it's popular(?) names:
>>"Beaver Fever"
>
>Ohhhh, is THAT where that name came from.... ;^)>
>
>
>- --
>Dave Gomberg mailto:gomberg@wcf.com
>FormMaestro <http://www.wcf.com>
>Any business offer in this mail expires in 3 days unless otherwise specified.
>- -----------------------------------------------------------------
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>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 13:34:00 -0500
>From: Ken Marlow <kmarlow@ngs.org>
>Subject: [pct-l] re: Kelly Flowers
>
>Sorry about the name mistake. Yea, there was a lot of road pounding back
>then; even in So. Cal. Some of it was voluntary though. I walked with a
>couple and their dog for two days around San Jacinto/Garner Valley when that
>range was completely buried. The same three that pushed through the Sierra,
>pushed through San Jacinto, descending Snow Creek! I've only heard stories
>of people going down that near vertical canyon. I hear the only time to
>attempt it though is in winter.
> I hiked up above Lake Isabella to, I think, Kenedy Meadows pack station
>(somewhere there) as I had a food drop waiting for me, then headed downhill
>to the east. If I would have stayed on jeep roads, Owens Valley wouldn't
>have been so bad. I opted for the asphalt though cuz I found I could get
>some high milage on it. I think I got in up to a 30 mile day. But things
>fell apart pretty quick. I ended-up laying over in Lone Pine tending 8
>blisters and bruised feet, for a week.
> Once I left Lone Pine, I tried road walking for a day. The codine didn't
>help the pain of the bruised feet. It became imbearable, and I ended
>hitching a ride to Minden, It was there that I walked up to Echo Lake.
> I had a pretty wild traverse across a cirque, west of Tahoe. So glad I
>had my ice axe then, saving me during a couple falls. Fording the headwaters
>of the American River was the most exciting episode, each crossing meant
>dropping down off of a snowbank into the river. During the second river
>crossing, I was in over my knees facing a bank to get out. I plunged the
>axe's adze in to assist in pulling myself up, but the bank broke off toward
>me. Thankfully I still kept my balance. I made camp less than 15 minutes
>later, early in the day, just to warm-up. The most gratifying navigation day
>was north and west of Tahoe (as following the trail was a map and compass
>estimate, on the snow), when I was was in a dense snow covered forest with
>those melt-outs around the trunks of trees and no landmarks. I set my
>compass to a small lake on the map a few miles away, and just followed a
>bearing. A couple hours later, there I was!
> Because of the road situation, the compromise has haunted me for years.
>I really want to hike a "pure" thru-hike next time. I'm planning to rehike
>the JMT this summer, but its only a temporary fix for my desire for another
>PCT attempt.
>
>Great talking to you and thanks for recommending the book!
>
>- -Ken Marlow
>
>
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>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 14:32:00 -0500
>From: Ken Marlow <kmarlow@ngs.org>
>Subject: [pct-l] tent materials
>
>Has anyone had any misfortunes with a tent having 1.9 oz nylon tafata, and
>1.9 oz coated polyester tafata for the main tent body and fly respectively?
>I've always had uncoated and coated ripstop nylon for these components. I
>understand the benifits of using polyester for the fly material, but I'm
>concerned about the tafata weave.
> I'm replacing an old tent that my wife and I share, and had my eyes on a
>Marmot Nutshell, until I saw the '98 Kelty Vortex 2 (at 11 ounces lighter
>than the '97 Vortex). But reading the fine print, the Kelty uses tafata
>weave throughout. Is this a problem? Will a tear really keep increasing on
>tafata material or is the ripstop benifits a marketing gimmick?
>
>- -Ken Marlow
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>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 13:57:34 -0800
>From: Greg Hummel <ghummel@hydrogenburner.com>
>Subject: [pct-l] Stove Fuel Accidents
>
>Back in '77 a group of four guys burned up a four man tent in a stove fuel
>accident. Three guys were in the tent, one lighting the stove (a Svea as I
>recall), one near the door and one on the opposite side of the stove from
>the door. The guy lighting the stove somehow screwed up and the stove
>fireballed immediately catching the tent on fire and badly scorching the
>face of the lighter. The guy near the door rolled out, the lighter
>scrambled out and the third guy watched as the flames engulfed the tent
>racing at him. A knife happened to be open next to him and he was able to
>cut his way out of the tent before it burned him and consumed the entire
>tent. They were extremely lucky that the only injuries were the loss of
>eye brows and eye lashes and a little hair on the lighter. They were also
>lucky that weather conditions were not severe. The hiked out the next day
>and replaced the tent.
>
>The moral of the story is: If you choose to cook inside your tent due to
>weather you had better be extremely careful.
>
>Greg "Strider" Hummel
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>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 19:47:51 EST
>From: Charcholla@aol.com
>Subject: Re: [pct-l] Stove Fuel Accidents
>
>In a message dated 98-02-18 16:58:34 EST, ghummel@hydrogenburner.com writes:
>
><< The moral of the story is: If you choose to cook inside your tent due to
>weather you had better be extremely careful. >>
>
>I took a Wilderness Basics Course in 1991 where their recommendation was:
>
>If bad weather "forces" you to cook inside the tent, "DON'T."
>
>If you must cook in a sheltered area (and all you have is a tent), COOK in the
>tent's vestibule.
>
>The time a stove is most likely to "flare up" is during the lighting, so LIGHT
>the stove OUTSIDE. After it has warmed to the point where you have a blue
>flame that's under your control, bring the stove just inside the vestibule out
>of the rain.
>
>You still might want to keep that open knife handy near the "emergency exit"
>at the rear of the tent. <G>
>
>Charlie Jones
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>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 18:39:19 -0800
>From: Greg Hummel <ghummel@hydrogenburner.com>
>Subject: RE: [pct-l] Fuels
>
>>>Maybe we need to change the way we dispose of our tp?
>
>Why use tp in the first place when Mother Nature provides so many smooth
>surfaces with which to wipe with? A rock, leaf, stick, pine cone (ouch!
>Just kidding!).
>
>gnh
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>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 19:06:24 -0800
>From: Steve Musil <smusil@ix.netcom.com>
>Subject: [pct-l] ice axe training
>
>Anyone have any suggestions where to get ice ax
>training in Northern California? I called around
>to a couple of sporting goods stores in the East
>Bay and they all suggested Alpine Skills
>International at Donner Summit. I called them, but
>their first course offering isn't until May 2 (I
>kind of have other plans that day). Any ideas?
>
>PS. Pray for dry weather.
>
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>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Wed, 18 Feb 98 23:04:00 -0500
>From: "Jeffrey Grinnell" <grinnell@capital.net>
>Subject: Re: [pct-l] Stove Fuel Accidents
>
>On Wed, 18 Feb 1998 13:57:34 -0800, Greg Hummel wrote:
>
>>The moral of the story is: If you choose to cook inside your tent due to
>>weather you had better be extremely careful.
>
>I think some care should be exercised when cooking inside a shelter as well.
>
>While hiking the AT in '95 I found myself at the Mt Collins shelter in the
>Great Smoky Mountains National Park the same day a crew from "Good Morning
>America" was there to shoot footage of AT hikers for a National Park series.
>
>One of the crew members fired up a white gas stove that has an integrated
>fuel tank below the burner (don't recall the model) inside the shelter. He
>was standing on the floor of the shelter with the stove on the top bunk
>level; just about eye level. Well, there apparently was a leak in the tank,
>maybe he didn't seal the refill port tight, and soon there were flames
>shooting out the back of the stove's fuel tank. The guy didn't see it until
>I pointed it out to him and in the next instant the stove was a mass of
>flames.
>
>He had set the stove up on a heavy piece of plastic so grabbing hold of the
>plastic he quickly lowered the stove to the shelter's dirt floor. By now
>there were flames shooting many feet above the stove licking at the packs
>all neatly suspended overhead. Seeing the dilema he snapped the plastic
>sheet taught and flung the stove outside the door of the shelter. This huge
>flaming ball bounced directly between the rest of the gang standing around
>the fire pit just outside the shelter door. Amazingly nobody was hit and
>the mass of flames was quickly extinguished.
>
>It all happened quite quickly and it taught me never to underestimate the
>potential damage one could cause with a white gas stove. Sadly the camera
>man wasn't shooting at the time. I would have paid for a copy of that
>footage. :)
>
>Jeff
>
>"Wired"
>AT '95 - '96
>CT '97
>
>=================================================================
>A volunteer for the "Olympus Mons Summit Expedition" - Mars 2005
>
>Jeffrey Grinnell <grinnell@capital.net>
>=================================================================
>
>
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>
>------------------------------
>
>End of pct-l-digest V1 #394
>***************************
>
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>
>
David J. Crosby, C-G Technology, San Jose, CA 95113-1295, USA
Phone: 408 259 0873 Fax: 408 729 6642 Pager: 408 697 8885
e-mail: cgdavid@ix.netcom.com Skypager 800 482 8874
Automation, handling, contactors, test, and thermal systems
for the semiconductor and related industries
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