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[pct-l] plastics and things

"Let's base our decision on facts and competent research findings,
not on vague reports of indeterminate origin."

Keep eating your nutra-sweet out of aluminum containers and wash that down 
with some chlorinated water.  ANd while your at it keep spreading margrine 
on your bread.  then go outside and let the DDT trucks come by to kill all 
the mosquitos in your neighborhood while you bathe in the gas that is 
surrounding you while you have a picnic - eating a sanwich with MSG all over 
it.  (Actually ramen noodles are covered in MSG- watch out hikers - But I 
think that is only the flavor packets - if you eat th noodles plain then you 
don;t get the MSG)  The point is that there are tons of things out there 
that seem to be safe for a long time and then become well known problems.  I 
think the plastics issue is up in that category.

I think you are bothered because you hear about these reports and don;t 
believe it for yourself.  But let me explain you that people tend to worry 
about this stuff because of use of DDT use of the 50's - many people got 
cancer from that.  It sparked a movement and people like Rachel Carson to 
uncover the bullshit of these environmental toxins.  So if people seem to 
think twice about using certain products - let them.  Not eveyone can get 
specific facts and figures and know what to believe.  But since the 50's 
scare we can pay closer attention and keep a watchful eye out for stuff like 
this.  We don;t always wait for the final test because we know that this 
stuff is designed to be as cheap as possible while getting the job done.  
Stuff that might make packaging easy for corporations, but not well tested 
for humans.

I think the best thing to do is stick with safe, proven materials  and not 
just disreguard something because you don;t know alot about it.  You will 
find studies on everything pointing to everything.  But chemicals, gmo, etc 
is not natural stuff.  I just like to keep my eye on it and let my fellow 
people know what I heard.

Some new studies on soy- (again, look it up for yourself)
As is excess amounts of soy - if you are a vegetarian beware, chill out on 
the soy - brussel sprouts too.  These plastics and the soy/brussel sprouts 
are getting into our bodies and doing weird things to us hormonally.  From 
what I heard in class, it is really doing weird stuff to fish populations - 
because out waste is cleaned but then put in rivers - but the cleaning 
process can't get rid of the hormones.  I guess this stuff acts like a fake 
estrogen and is causing fish and things to produce many more female 
species...

I'm just giving this information as a heads up to the people that feel like 
going and looking into information about unhealthy environmental toxins for 
themselves.  I'm just passing on information that I heard in class...  Hell, 
I probably even have notes on it...  And since we are all mostly 
accomplished PCT thru-hikers - I know what it is like out there - easy to 
pour hot beverages in plastic, and that just seems ludacris to me.

Professor Nancy Langston for UW-Madison is the woman I got the information 
about plastics and soy from.  If you want to contact her you can find her 
online with a search.  I'm sure she might be able to tell you more about 
plastics/soy and their leaching into foods/water.

Mouse

ps- if anyone didn't get a DVD, all I ask is a couple bucks for shipping... 
I'm starting to send them out again...










>From: Tortoise <Tortoise73@charter.net>
>To: Junaid Dawud <jdawud@yahoo.com>
>CC: pctl pctl <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
>Subject: Re: [pct-l] plastics and things
>Date: Sun, 25 Dec 2005 14:50:29 -0800
>
>A lot of us will die of cancer, if we live long enough. Some of us will die 
>of heart disease. But no matter how you live, you are going to die of 
>something. In less developed countries you're more likely to die younger of 
>disease, stravation, pollution, etc.
>
>Let's base our decision on facts and competent research findings, not on 
>vague reports of indeterminate origin.
>
>
>
>Here's some info from the Alzheimers Association on Aluminum 
>(http://www.alz.org/AboutAD/Myths.asp):
>	Myth 3: Drinking out of aluminum cans or cooking in aluminum pots and pans 
>can lead to Alzheimer?s disease.
>
>	Reality: Based on current research, getting rid of aluminum cans, pots, 
>and pans will not protect you from Alzheimer?s disease. The exact role (if 
>any) of aluminum in Alzheimer?s disease is still being researched and 
>debated. However, most researchers believe that not enough evidence exists 
>to consider aluminum a risk factor for Alzheimer?s or a cause of dementia.
>
>
>
>----------
>Tortoise
>
>I switched to Mac OSX rather than fight Windows
>Using Mozilla Thunderbird  http://www.mozilla.org/products/thunderbird/
>
>Junaid Dawud wrote:
>>Hey all,
>>
>>Just so you know, we're all going to die of cancer. well maybe not 
>>but.....
>>
>>Consider the number of chemical compounds that exist
>>in our environment today.  Many more than we evolved
>>to deal with.  It is no wonder to me that so many get
>>cancer and other horrible diseases that don't seem to
>>be such an issue in less developed countries (or at
>>least you never hear about it).  We are exposed to
>>sooooo many things our bodies weren't 'designed' to
>>deal with. every single day.
>>
>>scary stuff
>>
>>
>>-----------Junaid #41PCT2006
>>
>>--- Tortoise <Tortoise73@charter.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>As I recall the connection between aluminum and
>>>alzheimers disease has been pretty well discounted. As to plastics, there
>>>seems to be little risk if using approved plastics appropriately.
>>>
>>>Do you have citations for your concerns?
>>>
>>>----------
>>>Tortoise
>>>
>>>I switched to Mac OSX rather than fight Windows
>>>Using Mozilla Thunderbird http://www.mozilla.org/products/thunderbird/
>>>
>>>Joseph Niemiec wrote:
>>>
>>>>hey I don;t know, but that's what they told us...
>>>
>>>I carried my water in
>>>
>>>>a platy bags... Just a heads up for you all... I
>>>
>>>know you have to use
>>>
>>>>it, but hey, just don;t do the hot liquids thing
>>>
>>>in plastic and you are
>>>
>>>>kosher...
>>>>
>>>>And yes actually leather would be better I guess.
>>>
>>>Titanium- I have no
>>>
>>>>idea about it being bad for you... haven't heard
>>>
>>>anything
>>>
>>>>Merrrrryyyyy xmas - ho ho ho
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>From: Brad Evergreen <bradevergreendvm@yahoo.com>
>>>>>To: Joseph Niemiec <whitethunder10@hotmail.com>, 
>>>>>csxii@schizoaffective.org,
>>>
>>>jeffmoorehead1@cox.net
>>>
>>>>>CC: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
>>>>>Subject: Re: [pct-l] Don't cook foods in plastic!
>>>>>Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 22:05:10 -0800 (PST)
>>>>>
>>>>>What is the recommended water carrying device
>>>
>>>then if plastics and
>>>
>>>>>Aluminum are out?  Cow bladders or wood?  I have
>>>
>>>not seen a Titanium
>>>
>>>>>water bottle but it is probably just a matter of
>>>
>>>time before it is
>>>
>>>>>linked to something bad.  Brad
>>>>>
>>>>>Joseph Niemiec <whitethunder10@hotmail.com>
>>>
>>>wrote:  Hi folks,
>>>
>>>>>I just graduated form college and in an
>>>
>>>environmental class there I
>>>
>>>>>learned
>>>>>about toxic materials and what not... I learned
>>>
>>>alot about plastic
>>>
>>>>>leaching..
>>>>>
>>>>>It is when water sits in plasitc too long, like
>>>
>>>in plastic soda
>>>
>>>>>bottles and
>>>>>stuff [luckily for me (big milk drinker) the milk
>>>
>>>bottles aren't as bad,
>>>
>>>>>becuase they don;t have PVC in them] - anyway any
>>>
>>>bottles based on PVC
>>>
>>>>>leach nasty cancer causing materials into your
>>>
>>>food...
>>>
>>>>>This is the worst when you warm plastic up.
>>>
>>>Freezing it slows down the
>>>
>>>>>process. So when you put hot water in your
>>>
>>>Nalgene bottles and drink it -
>>>
>>>>>that is really bad for you because nalgene
>>>
>>>bottles are PVC heavy... JUst
>>>
>>>>>letting water sit in a nalgene bottle is bad
>>>
>>>enough... I perosnally don;t
>>>
>>>>>use nalgene bottles...
>>>>>
>>>>>THis goes for micro-waving things also. The
>>>
>>>microwaves and the heat cause
>>>
>>>>>plastic to leach PVC's into the food or liquid.
>>>
>>>The government knows
>>>
>>>>>about
>>>>>this and it is why in most states you can;t have
>>>
>>>PVC pipes used as
>>>
>>>>>incomming
>>>>>water supply - only outgoing.
>>>>>
>>>>>There are specific recycle #'s that are better
>>>
>>>and worse for this
>>>
>>>>>leaching... Milk jugs are teh best, I think that
>>>
>>>is a #2 - the worst
>>>
>>>>>is all
>>>>>those soda bottles and bottles of water you get
>>>
>>>at the store. and All
>>>
>>>>>those
>>>>>plastic bags and plastic zip lock containers -
>>>
>>>all that cheap plastic
>>>
>>>>>crap.
>>>>>
>>>>>Another example is that new car smell - plastic
>>>
>>>does an off gassing
>>>
>>>>>thing in
>>>>>the airt and that is waht you are smelling in a
>>>
>>>new car... but after it
>>>
>>>>>matures and stops off-gasing, it is safer to be
>>>
>>>in.
>>>
>>>>>So, I'm just giving all yall the warning becuase
>>>
>>>I know backpacking is
>>>
>>>>>heavy
>>>>>into plastic... I to used platy bags, but I never
>>>
>>>warmed stuff up on
>>>
>>>>>purpose...
>>>>>
>>>>>And and about aluminum hiking pots, they leach
>>>
>>>alumnium into food- and
>>>
>>>>>aluminum has be connected to alzheimers
>>>
>>>(spelling) disease. So just
>>>
>>>>>use the
>>>>>titanium - I haven;t heard about anything bad
>>>
>>>about that. I heard the US
>>>
>>>>>army won;t even allow its soliders to use
>>>
>>>aluminum pots - even though
>>>
>>>>>they
>>>>>are cheaper and lighter than stainless steel.
>>>
>>>They still make them use
>>>
>>>>>the
>>>>>stainless steel...
>>>>>
>>>>>I'm just keep'in it real for the brother-man and
>>>
>>>the sista-woman....
>>>
>>>>>Mouse
>>>>>www.trailjournals.com/joeniemiec
>>>>>
>>>>>ps- I also have some new for you about
>>>
>>>soy/brussel sprouts too - if
>>>
>>>>>you eat
>>>>>a ton of it - back off! if you want to know more
>>>
>>>let me know...
>>>
>>>>>>From: csxii@schizoaffective.org
>>>>>>To: "Jeff Moorehead"
>>>>>>CC: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
>>>>>>Subject: Re: [pct-l] Titanium pot scorching
>>>>>>Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 16:23:17 -0800
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Forget simmering with your stove and save fuel
>>>
>>>by "simmering" in an
>>>
>>>>>>insulated container. Boil the water, add the
>>>
>>>food then insulate your
>>>
>>>>>>pot or pour the mix into an insulated container.
>>>
>>>I use a ziplock
>>>
>>>>>>container with a screw on lid. I insulated it
>>>
>>>with bubble wrap. I
>>>
>>>>>>can simmer my food while I hike with this set
>>>
>>>up.
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>On Fri, 23 Dec 2005 16:20:52 -0800, "Jeff
>>>
>>>Moorehead"
>>>
>>>>>>had this to say:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I'm trying to develop a meal system based on
>>>
>>>rehydrating a dinner and
>>>
>>>>>>then
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>simply heating up the mixture. The savings in
>>>
>>>time, fuel, and trail
>>>
>>>>>>effort
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>should be well worth the effort of cooking,
>>>
>>>dehydrating, and vacuum
>>>
>>>>>>>packaging these meals now. I am trying each
>>>
>>>dish out by rehydrating
>>>
>>>>>and
>>>>>
>>>>>>>heating it up on my alcohol stove, but I am
>>>
>>>having a hard time
>>>
>>>>>avoiding
>>>>>
>>>>>>the
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>typical scorching that comes from use of
>>>
>>>titanium pots. It scorches so
>>>
>>>>>>>easily I am thinking of using something like a
>>>
>>>scorching pad. Given
>>>
>>>>>how
>>>>>
>>>>>>hard
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>it is to make an alcohol stove truly simmer,
>>>
>>>has anyone managed to
>>>
>>>>>solve
>>>>>
>>>>>>the
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>scorching problem?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>
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>>>
>>=== message truncated ===
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>__________________________________ Yahoo! for Good - Make a difference 
>>this year. http://brand.yahoo.com/cybergivingweek2005/
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