[pct-l] Conversation with Brian Robinson on Sierra streams, June, '05

[mlissner at michaeljaylissner.com (Michael J. Lissner)]

Our experience was that the best thing to do with a pack when crossing a
really deep ford (we hit the sierras before Brian and David, though we
left them after) was to hold it above your head. The extra weight helps
reduce your buoyancy in our experience.

One time, because I was a lot taller than Zip, I crossed without too
much trouble, and then went back to give him a hand. I had set down my
pack on the opposite side, but without its weight above my head, I
couldn't get back across to help him, and had to abort the mission. All
that, with a sub 20 pound pack.

-patch

matt maxon wrote:

>I know one thing for certian unbuclke your hip and chest straps you want to
>loose your pack if you get swept away.
>
>Reason: the pack will not only weigh you down but it will keep you face down
>in the water
>
>Trail90
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: <sue.kettles@comcast.net>
>To: "Robert Ellinwood" <rellinwood@worldnet.att.net>;
><pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
>Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 1:06 PM
>Subject: Re: [pct-l] Conversation with Brian Robinson on Sierra streams,
>June,'05
>
>
>  
>
>>When you cross something so deep and swift, what do you do with your pack?
>>    
>>
>Any tricks?  And how do you get dry if everything is wet and you're into the
>evening and in snow?   You guys are amazing.
>  
>
>>-------------- Original message -------------- 
>>
>>    
>>
>>>As most of you will recall, Brian Robinson posted a great summary of
>>>
>>>his "Eleven Days Through the Snowy High Sierra With David Horton."
>>>
>>>David is a friend of mine and I know how grateful he feels for
>>>
>>>Brian's experience and expertise in guiding him through the heavy
>>>
>>>snowpack this summer. It occurred to me that, while things were
>>>
>>>still fresh in Brian's memory, I'd ask him about some of the stream
>>>
>>>crossings, as he and David Horton experienced them.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Dr Bob:
>>>
>>>Before I ask about the stream crossings this summer, I've wondered:
>>>
>>>Did you ever use snowshoes on your Calendar Triple Crown? If so,
>>>
>>>what kind?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Brian:
>>>
>>>Yes. I chose Northern Lites Elites for my Calendar Triple Crown.
>>>
>>>I've still got 'em and still use 'em. They're really durable. I'd buy
>>>
>>>them again, but they're guaranteed to last a lifetime, so I probably
>>>
>>>won't have to.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Dr Bob:
>>>
>>>At high run-off, the streams really concern me. On my last PCT hike,
>>>
>>>the sound of roaring water some distance away was scary.
>>>
>>>Each hiker's trip and each day of weather-induced run-off will vary,
>>>
>>>but it occurs to me that your experience at really high water levels
>>>
>>>might be instructive for the rest of us. Can you reconstruct some
>>>
>>>of the nitty-gritty detail on the major stream crossings and
>>>
>>>whether you found better solutions by moving upstream for the
>>>
>>>crossing here, downstream there, right at the trail crossing in this
>>>
>>>case, etc?? My wife is shorter (5' 6") than I am and I figure your
>>>
>>>"findings" this bad snow year just might help us.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Brian:
>>>
>>>Sure. But I'll also toss in a few words written before in my "Eleven
>>>
>>>Days" post. Not all the "wet" was during stream crossings. Often,
>>>
>>>when post-holing late in the day, each step would sink deeply into
>>>
>>>the snow, sometimes waist-deep. Also, walking through melting snow
>>>
>>>is very wet and slippery and we had wet feet for days.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>OK, streams:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>South of Tuolumne:
>>>
>>>Rock Creek 760.3
>>>
>>>I think there's a good log crossing here.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Wallace Creek 770.4
>>>
>>>This one and Crabtree were relatively easy fords right at the
>>>
>>>crossing.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Wright Creek 771.5
>>>
>>>Very easy ford
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Tyndall creek 775.0
>>>
>>>This was the first ford that gave David Horton a problem. Very
>>>fast water. No easy place to cross anywhere. We gave up looking
>>>and crossed upstream a bit. Crossing Tyndall Creek without a bridge
>>>meant fording fast-moving ice water almost crotch-deep. David,
>>>who has forded his share of streams on the AT and at Hardrock,
>>>was alarmed at how difficult it was. I knew there was worse to
>>>come. After dealing with the later fords, this one seemed easy in
>>>retrospect.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>(Dr Bob: From David Horton's personal notes: "The first hard one
>>>
>>>[Tyndall Creek] scared me to death. I went halfway across and
>>>
>>>then went back. Later I decided that it was the only way to go.")
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>The crossing between the Rae Lakes 794.5
>>>
>>>There were some partially submerged logs right at the crossing. We
>>>had no trouble using them to stay out of deeper water.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>S Fork Kings River 814.4
>>>
>>>There are two fords here in quick succession. One is hard, the other
>>>extremely hard. The worst one has several decent logs to cross. We
>>>chose one upstream 100 yards or so.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Evolution Creek 849.9 The toughest ford on the PCT, Evolution
>>>Creek. In the chill of early evening, we waded out into chest deep,
>>>fast-moving water. More than halfway across, with my trekking
>>>poles completely under water and my feet numb from the cold, the
>>>current pushed me off balance. I had visions of being swept away,
>>>but I recovered with just a few unplanned steps. David also nearly
>>>turned into a swimmer, but managed to regain his footing too. We
>>>crossed right where at the trail. This was a mistake. We almost got
>>>swept away and could have died. Check out the other options.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Dr. Bob:
>>>
>>>Let me interrupt. With conditions you just described, I guess we
>>>
>>>need to clarify the time-frame involved here.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Brian:
>>>
>>>I was with David Horton from June 19th through June 30th.
>>>
>>>OK, going on.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Bear Creek 867.8
>>>
>>>Just one crossing, thank God. Extremely tough. We forded right at
>>>the trail.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>N Fork Mono Creek 880.2
>>>
>>>Difficult, but not too bad with all the practice we'd been getting.
>>>We crossed right at the trail.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>"Re-ford" of N Fk Mono Creek 881.4 ("where a fall could be fatal")
>>>
>>>This one is short but swift. Getting swept away here would be bad.
>>>
>>>We crossed right at the trail. Not too hard for people with long legs.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>North of Tuolumne: Northern Yosemite dished out some of the
>>>hardest trekking yet. There were several deep and swift fords.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Return Creek in Virginia Canyon 956.7
>>>
>>>"Easy" for us by then. Lots of practice. We forded right at the trail
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Matterhorn Canyon Creek 962.5
>>>
>>>Deep, but not too swift. A tough one, but we didn't have any trouble.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Wilson Creek 965.8
>>>
>>>Medium tough, but not too bad. We didn't even wait for each other
>>>before crossing. (Probably as tough as Tyndall Creek, but David had
>>>built up a lot of confidence by then.)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Piute Creek 973.1
>>>
>>>Very deep crossing. Would be a swim except for a large log down-
>>>
>>>stream toward Benson Lake 100 yards. We crossed on that log to
>>>avoid having to swim, but it cost us nonetheless. David slipped on the
>>>log and lost a trekking pole.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Kerrick Canyon Creek 980.2
>>>
>>>This one is downright dangerous. We traversed steep snow that
>>>could have dropped us into a raging torrent that we didn't dare
>>>cross. The far bank was mostly snow-free, but the whitewater was
>>>so ferocious we could not find a safe place to ford. A slip would
>>>have sent us tumbling into that water. At the trail crossing we
>>>had no choice. It nearly swept us away. This one is scary.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Falls Creek near Wilma Lake 987.6
>>>
>>>Very deep crossing. Basically a swim. We barely found footing in
>>>water over waist deep just below the trail crossing by following
>>>sand bars up and down stream a bit. It was another chest-deep
>>>ford, but the current was slower moving than Evolution Creek.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Kennedy Canyon Creek 1007.1
>>>
>>>This was fairly easy right at the trail.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>As I wrote earlier, this was as tough as any 11-day hike in my life.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Dr Bob:
>>>
>>>Thanks, Brian. Just thinking about your words at Evolution Creek,
>>>
>>>"with my trekking poles completely under water," I'm not sure
>>>
>>>I could have done it.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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