[pct-l] Ref: post 29, incorrect directions

[scottie.wujcik@xxxxxx (WUJCIK,SCOTTIE (HP-Corvallis,ex1))]

In writing down the directions from Hwy 20, santiam pass, I mentioned one
incorrect lake.  From Square lake, take the trail to Booth lake (NOT ROUND
LAKE), from there continue to Jack Lake, then to Wasco Lake and then to
Minto pass to reconnect to the PCT.  I  apologize for my error and I'm sorry
if this caused any confusion if you were checking this on any maps.

Scottie
Three lungs



-----Original Message-----
From: pct-l-request@mailman.backcountry.net
[mailto:pct-l-request@mailman.backcountry.net]
Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 10:00 AM
To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
Subject: PCT-L digest, Vol 1 #773 - 38 msgs


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Today's Topics:

   1. Flaming PCT Section A (Andy Somers)
   2. Sierra Fishing Hot Spots (Montedodge@aol.com)
   3. Re: Re: Four New books and Annual Meeting (Christine Kudija)
   4. Re: Flaming PCT Section A (Christine Kudija)
   5. Old  PCT Books/Archives ? (Jeff Bohannon)
   6. Re: Flaming PCT Section A (Heidi Clark)
   7. RE: Flaming PCT Section A (Marge Prothman)
   8. section A (ECPG)
   9. Burning Deserts (Montedodge@aol.com)
  10. Re: Sierra Fishing Hot Spots (Steve Courtway)
  11. Fw: [pct-l] New PCT Southern CA Book Has Arrived
(wandering_bob@msn.com)
  12. Re: 2003 Snow Levels (Scott Parks)
  13. RE: New PCT Southern CA Book Has Arrived (Jerry Goller)
  14. RE: New PCT Southern CA Book Has Arrived (Marge Prothman)
  15. RE: New PCT Southern CA Book Has Arrived (Marge Prothman)
  16. Playtex Baby bottle (maurer@earthlink.net)
  17. 30 years (JoAnn M Michael)
  18. Re: Re: Four New books and (Lonetrail@aol.com)
  19. Re: Old  PCT Books/Archives ? (Bighummel@aol.com)
  20. Re: section A (AsABat)
  21. Re: Old  PCT Books/Archives ? (AsABat)
  22. section E (StoneDancer1@aol.com)
  23. Re: section E (Kevin Corcoran)
  24. (no subject) (Paul E. Dietrich)
  25. Section hike near I-10 for the end of Febuary? (Slyatpct@aol.com)
  26. Re: Burning Deserts (CMountainDave@aol.com)
  27. Nut Butter Carrying System -Long Post (John Brennan)
  28. Fwd:Re: [pct-l] Burning Deserts (Tristan Sundsted)
  29. PCT North of Hwy 20 in Oregon (WUJCIK,SCOTTIE (HP-Corvallis,ex1))
  30. trail partner (Brucewise@aol.com)
  31. RE: Pondering (Jon Lovejoy)
  32. Re: tarp, tent, or nothing (AsABat)
  33. Re: Nut Butter Carrying System -Long Post (Christine Kudija)
  34. Re: PCT North of Hwy 20 in Oregon (Andrew Geibel)
  35. Re: Burning Deserts (christin pruett)
  36. Re: RE: Pondering (Bighummel@aol.com)
  37. Re: Section hike near I-10 for the end of Febuary? (Lonetrail@aol.com)
  38. Re: Southern Sierra trout (tsimon10)

--__--__--

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 18:15:40 -0800 (PST)
From: Andy Somers <andy_somers@yahoo.com>
Subject: [pct-l] Flaming PCT Section A
To: Montedodge@aol.com
Cc: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net

I think that I might have been there that night at
Barrel Springs!  I was definately hiking around
Hawkeye at that time with Nocona.  What was the date
that you were there.  Neat!

Hope to be back out to thru-hike this year, I agree it
will be a shame to hike Section A in this condition.
I thought it was a beautiful start to the trail.

-Bald Eagle
GA->ME '95
MEX->Kearsarge Pass '00

---Orignal Message---

I remember Barrel Springs in 2000 as 24 hikers came
staggering in over a unseasonably hot early May day.
Each time a hiker would walk in ( Most without water
for the last few miles) people would clap and cheer
like they had just did a Marathon!! Last Hiker of the
day to drag in was " Hawkeye" with a big grin holding
his nearly empty water bottle in the air saying, " I
saved the last sip for the last ten miles!! It was the
most folks I ever spend the night with in one spot but
totally a great group of fellow hikers.

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com

--__--__--

Message: 2
From: Montedodge@aol.com
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 14:46:17 EST
To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
Subject: [pct-l] Sierra Fishing Hot Spots

--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
 Don't forget Sally Keys Lakes!! I caught 11 Golden Trout with my hands in
Lakes outlet in 1977. Fish were in knee deep outlet stream and would hide
along side of banks when they saw you. Roots had rotted in bank walls
leaving small holes and little caves. Just close off exit with one hand and
slide other inside cave area. Stoke trout's belly and they become quite
docile. ( Trick is to make no quick motions) Slowly close hand around fish.
This is true story and will be happy to email fish pics to anyone. I was
with the Canadians at the time and they thought I was " Grizzly Adams Little
Brother" after I had taken 11 fish. ( I could have got more but my legs and
arms were turning blue from the water. ( Lakes still were half ice covered
thoughout most of the Sierras and water was abit cold )  I did this same
feat again at Packwood Lake side stream 10 years ago.
     This is illegal and would not advise this method of fishing today!
Please follow fish and game rules and be sure to buy a fishing license . At
the time , I was a half staved thru-hiker  who thought 11 fish was like
taking a hand full of sand off the beach!! ( I now know this was wrong and
repent of my wrongdoing!) It does work though!!!!!!!!!!!!!

--__--__--

Message: 3
Reply-To: "Christine Kudija" <cmkudija@earthlink.net>
From: "Christine Kudija" <cmkudija@earthlink.net>
To: "Tom Griffin" <griffin@u.washington.edu>
Cc: <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Re: Four New books and Annual Meeting
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 12:39:33 -0800

Was there any solution to the Playtex baby bottle leaking problem?  I
attempted to use baby bottle inserts w/lid for pb last summer, but ended up
with leaky mess....

Christine "Ceanothus" Kudija

"Never measure the height of a mountain, until you have reached the top.
Then you will see how low it was."  Dag Hammarskjold

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Wright" <at2002@earthlink.net>
To: "Tom Griffin" <griffin@u.washington.edu>
Cc: <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
Sent: Monday, February 03, 2003 5:50 PM
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Re: Four New books and Annual Meeting



On Monday, February 3, 2003, at 08:04  PM, Tom Griffin wrote:
> Just wanted to add to what Monte said about the annual meeting. I had
> a fun time meeting people and learning new tricks. The Playtex baby
> bottle device
> for carrying peanut butter is brilliant.

Details please.

Radar www.trailjournals.com/gwright
AT2002,PCT2003?,CDT?

_______________________________________________
PCT-L mailing list
PCT-L@mailman.backcountry.net
http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l


--__--__--

Message: 4
Reply-To: "Christine Kudija" <cmkudija@earthlink.net>
From: "Christine Kudija" <cmkudija@earthlink.net>
To: "Andy Somers" <andy_somers@yahoo.com>, <Montedodge@aol.com>
Cc: <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Flaming PCT Section A
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 12:42:42 -0800

Seems to me that instead of seeing Section A as burned and ugly, it might be
beneficial to see it as renewed and rejuvenated.  Granted, if we don't get
more rain the next two months, it might take a while.  But the desert &
chaparral vegetation NEEDS fire to renew itself (problems with
high-temperature fires notwithstanding, and I'm NOT going to get into
that...).

And hey - the poison oak got toasted too!  ;-)

Anyone been to the burned area of Section A recently?

Christine "Ceanothus" Kudija

"Never measure the height of a mountain, until you have reached the top.
Then you will see how low it was."  Dag Hammarskjold

----- Original Message -----
From: "Andy Somers" <andy_somers@yahoo.com>
To: <Montedodge@aol.com>
Cc: <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
Sent: Monday, February 03, 2003 6:15 PM
Subject: [pct-l] Flaming PCT Section A


I think that I might have been there that night at
Barrel Springs!  I was definately hiking around
Hawkeye at that time with Nocona.  What was the date
that you were there.  Neat!

Hope to be back out to thru-hike this year, I agree it
will be a shame to hike Section A in this condition.
I thought it was a beautiful start to the trail.

-Bald Eagle
GA->ME '95
MEX->Kearsarge Pass '00

---Orignal Message---

I remember Barrel Springs in 2000 as 24 hikers came
staggering in over a unseasonably hot early May day.
Each time a hiker would walk in ( Most without water
for the last few miles) people would clap and cheer
like they had just did a Marathon!! Last Hiker of the
day to drag in was " Hawkeye" with a big grin holding
his nearly empty water bottle in the air saying, " I
saved the last sip for the last ten miles!! It was the
most folks I ever spend the night with in one spot but
totally a great group of fellow hikers.

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com _______________________________________________
PCT-L mailing list
PCT-L@mailman.backcountry.net
http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l


--__--__--

Message: 5
From: "Jeff Bohannon" <jeffbohannon@hotmail.com>
To: PCT-L@mailman.backcountry.net
Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2003 20:52:26 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Old  PCT Books/Archives ?

A colleague recently handed me an unopened set of Pacific Crest  Trail MAPS
SO. CAL ,"Includes the LOGISTICS of PACIFIC CRESTING" Permits, Registers,
Supply Locations,Transportation. In the lower left hand corner is a logo
which has a very small map of the trail over which reads" Rogers copyright
1973 Pacific Crest Trail Pocket Guide Canada to Mexico" This is a later
edition with some maps and contents with a copyright of 1985. Of course I
opened and found it very interesting ,especially the pre addressed gummed
labels with everything on them including in bold underscored letters "PLEASE
HOLD FOR PACIFIC CRESTER" . All you have to do is fill in the blank space
for your name and  planned arrival date lick the back and slap it on your
parcel.How easy . I've enjoyed all the recent posts about the great finds
people are having. I was wondering does the PCTA have an archives or
library?

rogue

_________________________________________________________________
STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail


--__--__--

Message: 6
Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2003 13:26:59 -0800
From: "Heidi Clark" <clarkh@ohsu.edu>
To: <Montedodge@aol.com>, <cmkudija@earthlink.net>, <andy_somers@yahoo.com>
Cc: <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Flaming PCT Section A

This is a MIME message. If you are reading this text, you may want to =

consider changing to a mail reader or gateway that understands how to =

properly handle MIME multipart messages.
--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
I spent a summer working in Joshua Tree National Park, right after a huge f=
ire had burned through it.  What I learned from the rangers there is that, =
unlike in a forest, fire is not a natural occurrence in a desert.

Like in a forest, fire is caused by overgrown ground cover, but in a forest=
, the ground cover should be burned out by slow-burning, not-so-hot fires. =
In the desert, the ground cover is usually nonnative grasses and shouldn't=
be there in the first place.  In most cases it was introduced by the horse=
s and cattle of early settlers.

The only natural fire in a desert would be caused by something like lighten=
ing, and without the ground cover to spread it, would burn maybe one Joshua=
Tree.

So I guess the good part about a desert fire is that it burns the nonnative=
grass, but it also burns very, very old Joshua Trees, and the first thing =
to spread and grow back is the grass and not the trees, so a big fire is pr=
obably not such a good thing.

However, I was sort of in awe of the after-fire effect on the desert.  Ever=
ything is black, and you can see where a Joshua Tree stood because when it =
burns it tips over, and leaves a "tree shadow".  It was very eery, and kind=
of mysterious, to see.  There is also an abundance of dead lizards, tortoi=
ses, and other desert wildlife just laying around, not even necessarily bur=
ned, but suffocated by the smoke.  It was sort of sad, but fascinating at t=
he same time.

Heidi

>>> "Christine Kudija" <cmkudija@earthlink.net> 02/04/03 12:42PM >>>
Seems to me that instead of seeing Section A as burned and ugly, it might b=
e beneficial to see it as renewed and rejuvenated.  Granted, if we don't get
more rain the next two months, it might take a while.  But the desert &
chaparral vegetation NEEDS fire to renew itself (problems with
high-temperature fires notwithstanding, and I'm NOT going to get into
that...).

And hey - the poison oak got toasted too!  ;-)

Anyone been to the burned area of Section A recently?

Christine "Ceanothus" Kudija

"Never measure the height of a mountain, until you have reached the top.
Then you will see how low it was."  Dag Hammarskjold

----- Original Message -----
From: "Andy Somers" <andy_somers@yahoo.com>
To: <Montedodge@aol.com>
Cc: <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
Sent: Monday, February 03, 2003 6:15 PM
Subject: [pct-l] Flaming PCT Section A


I think that I might have been there that night at
Barrel Springs!  I was definately hiking around
Hawkeye at that time with Nocona.  What was the date
that you were there.  Neat!

Hope to be back out to thru-hike this year, I agree it
will be a shame to hike Section A in this condition.
I thought it was a beautiful start to the trail.

-Bald Eagle
GA->ME '95
MEX->Kearsarge Pass '00

---Orignal Message---

I remember Barrel Springs in 2000 as 24 hikers came
staggering in over a unseasonably hot early May day.
Each time a hiker would walk in ( Most without water
for the last few miles) people would clap and cheer
like they had just did a Marathon!! Last Hiker of the
day to drag in was " Hawkeye" with a big grin holding
his nearly empty water bottle in the air saying, " I
saved the last sip for the last ten miles!! It was the
most folks I ever spend the night with in one spot but
totally a great group of fellow hikers.

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com _______________________________________________
PCT-L mailing list
PCT-L@mailman.backcountry.net
http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l

_______________________________________________
PCT-L mailing list
PCT-L@mailman.backcountry.net
http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l

--__--__--

Message: 7
From: "Marge Prothman" <marge@prothman.com>
To: "Pct-L" <pct-L@backcountry.net>
Subject: RE: [pct-l] Flaming PCT Section A
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 14:43:03 -0700

A few years ago, we hiked through a burned area in Oregon and here is what I
wrote in my journal:

 "Somewhere In this area, there had been a forest fire and we were rerouted.
This was an eerie part of the hike, there were no footprints ahead of us
crossing the burned out area, just black trees, no vegetation either, but
there was one track that we followed for half of the day.  It was the track
of a horse and rider which brought us out onto the trail again, for which I
was thankful."

Cheers,

 Marge   [The Old Gal]
http://www.prothman.org/marge

-


--__--__--

Message: 8
From: "ECPG" <ECPG@peoplepc.com>
To: <pct-l@backcountry.net>
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 14:06:21 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] section A

Is section A pretty much where the fire was or did it get to section B also?
I'm looking too, for a place to start at the south end of Crater Lake NP to
head south as we can't take the goats into the park. We plan to do from the
south end of the park to I-5 mid-July and then head for Colorado right from
there.

Carolyn Eddy
Goattracks Magazine
www.goattracksmagazine.com




--__--__--

Message: 9
From: Montedodge@aol.com
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 17:13:40 EST
To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
Subject: [pct-l] Burning Deserts

--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
 No, not the French Foreign Legend kind!! I just think the the desert takes
it's sweet time coming back.
   After hiking the Border to kick-off 20 miles stretch the last three
years, I can tell you that the burned area just north of the border still
looks and burnt and ugly as it did in 2000. If given a choice , I would much
rather hike through canyons full of blooming Chaparral and manzanita laced
with Cleveland's monkey flower than the burnt area that is there now. The
only happy folks may be the border patrol who's job just got somewhat
easier! ( Hard to hide in a burnt out desert where now you can easily see
everyone beer bottle thrown or can dropped for the last 50 years!!)
    Hopefully in 15 years , it will be back to norm for my retirement hike!!
Oregon got hit hard last year as well and won't be back to it's old self for
much longer. I wonder how much of the PCT ( In Miles) did get fried last
year??


--__--__--

Message: 10
From: "Steve Courtway" <scourtway@bpa-arch.com>
To: <Montedodge@aol.com>, <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Sierra Fishing Hot Spots
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 14:15:18 -0800

don't feel bad monte, as a boy scout ca. '79 hiking the PCT vic. glacier
peak in Washington, one of the leaders along with us would take off early in
the morning and return with a stringer - no less than 2 - 3 dozen trout,
enough to feed our entire troop.  I often shudder when thinking of this
slaughter hahaha.

----- Original Message -----
From: <Montedodge@aol.com>
To: <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 11:46 AM
Subject: [pct-l] Sierra Fishing Hot Spots


> --
> [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
>  Don't forget Sally Keys Lakes!! I caught 11 Golden Trout with my
> hands in Lakes outlet in 1977. Fish were in knee deep outlet stream
> and would hide along side of banks when they saw you. Roots had rotted
> in bank walls
leaving
> small holes and little caves. Just close off exit with one hand and
> slide other inside cave area. Stoke trout's belly and they become
> quite docile.
(
> Trick is to make no quick motions) Slowly close hand around fish. This
> is true story and will be happy to email fish pics to anyone. I was
> with the Canadians at the time and they thought I was " Grizzly Adams
> Little
Brother"
> after I had taken 11 fish. ( I could have got more but my legs and
> arms
were
> turning blue from the water. ( Lakes still were half ice covered
> thoughout most of the Sierras and water was abit cold )  I did this
> same feat again
at
> Packwood Lake side stream 10 years ago.
>      This is illegal and would not advise this method of fishing
> today! Please follow fish and game rules and be sure to buy a fishing
> license .
At
> the time , I was a half staved thru-hiker  who thought 11 fish was
> like taking a hand full of sand off the beach!! ( I now know this was
> wrong and repent of my wrongdoing!) It does work though!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> _______________________________________________
> PCT-L mailing list
> PCT-L@mailman.backcountry.net
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l


--__--__--

Message: 11
To: "PCT List Forum" <PCT-L@mailman.backcountry.net>
Subject: Fw: [pct-l] New PCT Southern CA Book Has Arrived
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 18:56:34 -0800
From: wandering_bob@msn.com

--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]


Now that I've had the chance to read part of mine, I can see the additions =
and they are highly significant. Water caches are now located, especially t=
hose in section A. Mention is made of specific trail angels along the way w=
ith addresses and phone numbers, a vastly increased option for previously u=
nmentioned re-supply points along the way, etc.

If that continues in the Northern CA book, to have made a single volume out=
of the two would have made  for a very thick book indeed. I support the de=
cision to split the book into 2 parts. Realistically, most PCT hikers are s=
ection hikers, not thru-hikers. This way they don't have to pay for informa=
tion they will never use. An argument could be made for splitting Oregon an=
d Washington too, but a lot more trail info would need to be developed for =
that.

On the pessimistic side, Wilderness Press did not come close to meeting the=
ir projected printing dates and so damn near missed the window for this yea=
r's thru-hikers. If they had waited for the N. CA revision to be ready, the=
book would have come out so late that sales would have probably (IMHO) bee=
n greatly reduced, meaning it would be 2004 before they started to recover =
their costs.

Just wait until the GPS files are published for the trail. It's in progress=
from several sources. I would guess several sections could be available no=
w, piecemeal. Ken Roberts' CD's have them now, but 1300 points covering 260=
0 miles aren't enough to make a "route" for most people.

Wandering Bob

----- Original Message -----
Wrom: FSQHYU
Sent: Monday, February 03, 2003 6:42 PM
To: pct-l@backcountry.net
Subject: RE: [pct-l] New PCT Southern CA Book Has Arrived

To quote from About This Book:
"By splitting the original book, we were able to redesign it in order to en=
hance readability and make it a bit more portable. We also added some new p=
hotos and improved the quality of the old ones. The maps are as they were o=
riginally, with the changes that have been made to them in prior editions; =
we expect to have them completely digitized within the next five years."



I hate these little rationalizations, I wish they would just be straight wi=
th us, something along the lines of "guidebooks don't make a lot of money, =
so to maximize profits we want to make you buy two books instead of the one=
volume we have been selling for the past 30 years. rob

_______________________________________________

--__--__--

Message: 12
To: PCT-L@mailman.backcountry.net
Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2003 14:32:51 -0800
From: "Scott Parks" <stillroaming@lycos.com>
Reply-To: stillroaming@lycos.com
Subject: [pct-l] Re: 2003 Snow Levels
Organization: Lycos Mail  (http://www.mail.lycos.com:80)


Since this personal question from a friend was made public,
I 'spose we're all entitled to comment on it:

>  writes:
> "Are you still in the snow level prediction business for
> the PCT? If so, is it too early to get an idea of what to expect for
> 2003?"

The responsible answer is:

Yes, it is far too early to predict with any accuracy. Any prediction at
this point is a blatant guess. It would be completely irresponsible to
'guess', especially in a public forum.

No disclaimer required.

Scott Parks

---
Home   : http://stillroaming.tripod.com
Art    : http://stillroaming.tripod.com/art
Hiking : http://stillroaming.tripod.com/pct


_____________________________________________________________
Get 25MB, POP3, Spam Filtering with LYCOS MAIL PLUS for $19.95/year.
http://login.mail.lycos.com/brandPage.shtml?pageId=plus&ref=lmtplus

--__--__--

Message: 13
From: "Jerry Goller" <jerrygoller@backpackgeartest.org>
To: <wandering_bob@msn.com>,
   "'PCT List Forum'" <PCT-L@mailman.backcountry.net>
Subject: RE: [pct-l] New PCT Southern CA Book Has Arrived
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 15:49:43 -0700

I spoke to Michael Jones, the Publisher, at Wilderness Press at the Outdoor
Retailers Show last weekend. He would like us to review the new California
guides on BackpackGearTest.org. It looks like we'll have (5) sets for
review. I'm not sure if we will also be reviewing the Data Book and Town
Guide as well. Jerry

http://www.BackpackGearTest.org : the most comprehensive interactive gear
reviews and tests on the planet.



-----Original Message-----
From: pct-l-admin@mailman.backcountry.net
[mailto:pct-l-admin@mailman.backcountry.net] On Behalf Of
wandering_bob@msn.com
Sent: Monday, February 03, 2003 7:57 PM
To: PCT List Forum
Subject: Fw: [pct-l] New PCT Southern CA Book Has Arrived


--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]


Now that I've had the chance to read part of mine, I can see the additions
and they are highly significant. Water caches are now located, especially
those in section A. Mention is made of specific trail angels along the way
with addresses and phone numbers, a vastly increased option for previously
unmentioned re-supply points along the way, etc.

If that continues in the Northern CA book, to have made a single volume out
of the two would have made  for a very thick book indeed. I support the
decision to split the book into 2 parts. Realistically, most PCT hikers are
section hikers, not thru-hikers. This way they don't have to pay for
information they will never use. An argument could be made for splitting
Oregon and Washington too, but a lot more trail info would need to be
developed for that.

On the pessimistic side, Wilderness Press did not come close to meeting
their projected printing dates and so damn near missed the window for this
year's thru-hikers. If they had waited for the N. CA revision to be ready,
the book would have come out so late that sales would have probably (IMHO)
been greatly reduced, meaning it would be 2004 before they started to
recover their costs.

Just wait until the GPS files are published for the trail. It's in progress
from several sources. I would guess several sections could be available now,
piecemeal. Ken Roberts' CD's have them now, but 1300 points covering 2600
miles aren't enough to make a "route" for most people.

Wandering Bob

----- Original Message -----
Wrom: FSQHYU
Sent: Monday, February 03, 2003 6:42 PM
To: pct-l@backcountry.net
Subject: RE: [pct-l] New PCT Southern CA Book Has Arrived

To quote from About This Book:
"By splitting the original book, we were able to redesign it in order to
enhance readability and make it a bit more portable. We also added some new
photos and improved the quality of the old ones. The maps are as they were
originally, with the changes that have been made to them in prior editions;
we expect to have them completely digitized within the next five years."



I hate these little rationalizations, I wish they would just be straight
with us, something along the lines of "guidebooks don't make a lot of money,
so to maximize profits we want to make you buy two books instead of the one
volume we have been selling for the past 30 years. rob

_______________________________________________
_______________________________________________
PCT-L mailing list
PCT-L@mailman.backcountry.net
http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l



--__--__--

Message: 14
From: "Marge Prothman" <marge@prothman.com>
To: <wandering_bob@msn.com>,
   "'PCT List Forum'" <PCT-L@mailman.backcountry.net>
Subject: RE: [pct-l] New PCT Southern CA Book Has Arrived
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 15:55:42 -0700

I agree with you.  And the cost is not that much more, you paid $25. for the
single edition of California and now you pay $13.95 each or $28. for the
two. The man at Wilderness Press says mid April for the second part. Also, I
ordered mine from Amazon and they are receiving the first book now.

Cheers,  Marge (the old gal)

-----Original Message-----
From: pct-l-admin@mailman.backcountry.net
[mailto:pct-l-admin@mailman.backcountry.net] On Behalf Of
wandering_bob@msn.com
Sent: Monday, February 03, 2003 7:57 PM
To: PCT List Forum
Subject: Fw: [pct-l] New PCT Southern CA Book Has Arrived


--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]


Now that I've had the chance to read part of mine, I can see the additions
and they are highly significant. Water caches are now located, especially
those in section A. Mention is made of specific trail angels along the way
with addresses and phone numbers, a vastly increased option for previously
unmentioned re-supply points along the way, etc.

If that continues in the Northern CA book, to have made a single volume out
of the two would have made  for a very thick book indeed. I support the
decision to split the book into 2 parts. Realistically, most PCT hikers are
section hikers, not thru-hikers. This way they don't have to pay for
information they will never use. An argument could be made for splitting
Oregon and Washington too, but a lot more trail info would need to be
developed for that.



--__--__--

Message: 15
From: "Marge Prothman" <marge@prothman.com>
To: "'Jerry Goller'" <jerrygoller@backpackgeartest.org>,
   <wandering_bob@msn.com>, "'PCT List Forum'"
<PCT-L@mailman.backcountry.net>
Subject: RE: [pct-l] New PCT Southern CA Book Has Arrived
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 15:56:43 -0700

Absolutely Great.......

Marge

-----Original Message-----
From: pct-l-admin@mailman.backcountry.net
[mailto:pct-l-admin@mailman.backcountry.net] On Behalf Of Jerry Goller
Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 3:50 PM
To: wandering_bob@msn.com; 'PCT List Forum'
Subject: RE: [pct-l] New PCT Southern CA Book Has Arrived


I spoke to Michael Jones, the Publisher, at Wilderness Press at the Outdoor
Retailers Show last weekend. He would like us to review the new California
guides on BackpackGearTest.org. It looks like we'll have (5) sets for
review. I'm not sure if we will also be reviewing the Data Book and Town
Guide as well. Jerry

ht/listinfo/pct-l


_______________________________________________
PCT-L mailing list
PCT-L@mailman.backcountry.net
http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l


--__--__--

Message: 16
Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2003 16:17:34 -0800
From: maurer@earthlink.net
To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
Subject: [pct-l] Playtex Baby bottle

In the most recent thread I got Tom Griffen mentioned something about an
idea from the PCTA meeting - using a Playtex Baby bottle to store peanut
butter. I'm very intrigued, can someone enlighten me?

Thanks.

--
Mike Maurer



--__--__--

Message: 17
From: "JoAnn M Michael" <jomike@snowcrest.net>
To: <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 16:44:15 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] 30 years

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
While attending the Annual Mtg. Monte who looked really sharp and was anyth=
ing but "Mad" kindly presented me with the 1973 first edition PCT Guide Boo=
k to borrow and later return.

In yesterday's mail I too got my copy of Southern CA new PCT Guide Book.  W=
hat a "trip" to sit with the whole state from 1973 in my left hand and just=
the bottom half of CA in my right for hand at almost twice the size.  Thin=
gs certainly have changed a lot. The route and the trail itself has changed=
a lot but only accounts for part of the 30 years difference. I can't help =
but feel the additional public awareness,  the numbers of hikers and b'pack=
ers, the additional press those sports receive, etc., makes up the greater =
part of the huge change from '73 to '03. It comes with mixed blessings and =
yet, I can't help but somehow feel proud to be apart of that very same comm=
unity and the Association that stands for the PCT itself.

JoAnn

--


--__--__--

Message: 18
From: Lonetrail@aol.com
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 20:20:26 EST
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Re: Four New books and
To: Bighummel@aol.com, pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net

Hey out there

The Seattle Convention was fantastic. The hotel great, Banquet food yummy
and speaker Jim Whittaker was really on top of the world. This guy is
amazing with all his accomplishments. One hell of a man. Hear that Rich? The
classes had all seats filled and nobody left. The Ultralite displays were
well attended.

Let give our now passed President a big hand.

Joe had a ham and bun sandwich food demonstration on how to eat on the
trail. Raised a few eyebrows. Spent  a lot of time with Bill the Ole Geezer
I had the pleasure to set with Monty at the Banquet and a few other from WA.
My Daughter drove down from Mt. Vermon for the Banquet. The trip was well
worth while

See Cupcake about the Baby Bottle.

Lonetrail

--__--__--

Message: 19
From: Bighummel@aol.com
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 20:17:59 EST
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Old  PCT Books/Archives ?
To: jeffbohannon@hotmail.com, pct-l@backcountry.net

The PCTA only has unofficial historians that collect stuff.  They hope to
get a historical archive going to collect all of the cool early stuff that
is out there in private hands and might get thrown out as junk by the widow
or widower when the old guy/gal kicks off.

It sounds as though the package you have was made by Warren Rogers, the guy
who organized YMCA boys to do a several year, multiple person relay survey
of the PCT back in the 1930's.  His son still has quite a bit of historical
PCT stuff.  Check out www.pct.com.  Bring it to the ADZ if you will, I'd
like to see it.

Greg

--__--__--

Message: 20
Reply-To: "AsABat" <AsABat@4Jeffrey.Net>
From: "AsABat" <AsABat@4Jeffrey.Net>
To: "ECPG" <ECPG@peoplepc.com>, <pct-l@backcountry.net>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] section A
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 17:44:20 -0800

The Pines fire was limited to between Mt. Laguna (near Pioneer Mail) and
just north of Barrel Spring. There are some areas between these points
unburned, including Scissors Crossing. I don't think Section B had any major
burns last year. Section D (above Mt. Baldy) and E (towards Green Valley and
Bouquet Canyon I think) had a few major fires but I don't think they
impacted large parts of the trail.

The burned areas could be interesting to see how it's coming back. On the
positive side, the views across the desert will be more open without all
that brush in the way. However, shade will be nonexistant in some areas. You
also might need to pay closer attention to navigation as abandoned,
overgrown trails and game trails will now be visible. I noted some work was
done near Barrel Spring with signs and flagging tape to mark the trail.

I have maps of the fire in Section A (and the pictures mentioned) on my web
page at www.4Jeffrey.Net Click on "PCT" and then Fire pictures.

(Just tried and the site is down but should be up soon I hope.)

AsABat

> Is section A pretty much where the fire was or did it get to section B
also?


--__--__--

Message: 21
Reply-To: "AsABat" <AsABat@4Jeffrey.Net>
From: "AsABat" <AsABat@4Jeffrey.Net>
To: <Bighummel@aol.com>, <jeffbohannon@hotmail.com>, <pct-l@backcountry.net>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Old  PCT Books/Archives ?
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 17:48:40 -0800

I have Clark's and Hazard's books, but have been trying to find a copy of
the PCT Relays and the other Rogers material. I emailed Rogers' son but have
had no reply. I too would like to see what you have.

AsABat



--__--__--

Message: 22
From: StoneDancer1@aol.com
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 22:06:19 EST
To: pct-l@backcountry.net
Subject: [pct-l] section E

--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
In a message dated 2/4/03 5:53:04 PM Pacific Standard Time,
AsABat@4Jeffrey.Net writes:

> and E (towards Green Valley and
> Bouquet Canyon I think)

The fire in Bouquet Canyon did not impact the PCT at all.  I passed by
shortly after it was controlled.  It was in the lower canyon and did not
come closer than a couple of miles of the trail.

No Way

--__--__--

Message: 23
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 19:28:27 -0800
To: StoneDancer1@aol.com
From: Kevin Corcoran <kevin@antelecom.net>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] section E
Cc: AsABat@4Jeffrey.Net, pct-l@backcountry.net

I believe you are referring to the fire that burned north toward Green
Valley (Copper Fire?) but a later season fire did burn across the PCT in the
bottom of Bouquet Cyn. If you have a copy of the October 2002 PCTA
Communicator, a photo that I took at the crossing is on Page 8.  It burned a
ways on both sides of Bouquet Canyon Road, but there was just brush in that
area.

Kevin Corcoran
Section E Area Trail Coordinator


>AsABat@4Jeffrey.Net writes:
>
>>  and E (towards Green Valley and
>>  Bouquet Canyon I think)
>
>The fire in Bouquet Canyon did not impact the PCT at all.  I passed by
>shortly after it was controlled.  It was in the lower canyon and did
>not come closer than a couple of miles of the trail.
>
>No Way
>_______________________________________________
>PCT-L mailing list
>PCT-L@mailman.backcountry.net
>http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l


--__--__--

Message: 24
From: "Paul E. Dietrich" <cactus_paul@earthlink.net>
To: "'pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net'" <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 20:34:52 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] (no subject)

    Well....   Here I go again.   I am now preparing for another possible
trip on the PCT.  Assuming everything goes well, I will join the class of
2003.  Here are my equipment changes from last time: Sleeping bag was Kelty
Silver Streak, now Marmot Helium. Backpack was Mountain Smith Mountain Light
3500 w/Carbon Fiber Stays, now Kelty Cloud 4000. Tent was Kelty Zen
(w/LunaKat) or SD Lightyear CD, now SD Ultra Lightyear CD w/Simon Metals'
Titanium Stakes.
  Comments/Criticisms?

The PEDestrian

Paul E. Dietrich
916-204-5255
cactus_paul@earthlink.net



--__--__--

Message: 25
From: Slyatpct@aol.com
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 23:51:55 EST
To: pct-l@backcountry.net
Subject: [pct-l] Section hike near I-10 for the end of Febuary?

--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]

Can anyone suggest a good 40 mile or so section hike of the PCT for later
this month near Palm Springs.  I have a buddy that's going to be out there
and wants to do a little hiking!

I was thinking Palms to Pines highway to I-10, but will that be snowbound
and too difficult?  What about north of there, I-10 towards Big Bear, is
there a bail out point, will there be less snow?

A loop?

Thanks

Sly

--__--__--

Message: 26
From: CMountainDave@aol.com
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 00:14:32 EST
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Burning Deserts
To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net

I always wondered why the chaparral consisted of plants that are so
flammable. They are probably as flammable as kerosene. Why I wondered would
a plant evolve to be flammable in a hot and dry climate where the risk of
fire is so great. One would think they would evolve to be flame retardant,
much as the bark of a Jeffery pine.
  Then one day I was walking through a landscape mixed with the usual chap
plants and 2 to 5 year old pine trees and it dawned on me. They are
flammable on purpose. They want to burn because it kills all the plants that
would eventually crowd and shade them out. Fire doesn't kill the chap
stuff's roots and they grow back. The pine trees take much longer to
reestablish, and by then its time for another fire.  The real question is:
How do these plants know that fire is their friend? Oh I know, the
evolutionists say it was random natural selection. But it sure as hell seems
like a thought out strategy to me. To become so flammable in a near desert
environment by chance? Logic says no way. Just as likely to not be flammable

--__--__--

Message: 27
From: "John Brennan" <john@frozenpoodle.com>
To: "PCT List" <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 22:48:03 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] Nut Butter Carrying System -Long Post

Cupcake here.  I am far behind on this list, but I have gotten a couple of
alerts that hikers want to know about my NBCS.  Search no further! Following
is information about a .7 oz system for carrying nut butters using baby
bottle parts and liners. Long post.

The Nut Butter Carrying System: A .7 oz no-mess solution to shipping and
carrying nut butters on long backpacking trips.

NBCS uses rigid plastic baby bottles and pliable baby bottle liners to make
a fairly neat way to carry peanut butter, almond butter, or any other thick
oily paste you may want to hike with.

*The Parts*
-Hike: One 4-ounce "Platex Disposables Original Nurser" (baby bottle)
[Modify and carry on the trail.] Has a body and a screw-on lid.
-Ship: Two (or more) 8-ounce "Platex Disposables Original Nursers" (baby
bottle) Has a body and a screw-on lid. [Use to ship nut butter safely.]
-Seal: Orthodontic Nipples with Sealing Discs (need only the sealing discs)
Seals the lid and replaces the nipple. [This is the secret.]
-Dispose: Ready-formed and Disposable Bottle Liners 4- or 8-oz [Throw away
the mess.]

*Cut the Weight*
Cut the 4-ounce bottle bottom to reduce weight. Make it so that the lower
clear part has just enough to grip: with the screw-on lid on, about a thick
finger's width below the lid.  Mine ended up being at the just below the
second-from-the-top grip. Basically, you end up with the threads plus a
section to grip.

*The System*
The modified rigid bottle, a liner, a retainer ring, and a sealing disk are
the four parts.

*How it works*
Receive liner full of nut butter in an 8 oz container (shipping container)
in resupply box. Transfer full liner to modified container (hiking
container). Return shipping part to home base.

Alternately, if you are resupplying along the way, you just need to find a
way to get baby bottle liners to yourself.  Bounce them or carry a few. They
are very light.

*Notes*
Hike with system in zip top bag, just in case.
Playtex will send you additional sealing discs at no charge, but it takes a
while. 800-222-0453 Here's a URL you thought you'd never see on this list:
http://www.playtexbaby.com/  Look for disposable bottles.  There's an
illustration on page two of a pdf:
http://www.playtexbaby.com/bottlesandpacifiers/howto/pdf/DispStartSetBroc.pd
f.
Get rid of the nipples and the opaque snap-on caps from the sets you buy.

*Post-Trip Evaluation*
The NBCS pretty much worked for a thru-hike, and I'd definitely use it for
short trips.  The biggest hassle was returning the shipping portion back to
my Dad who was coordinating my resupplies.  Post offices don't keep
thru-hiker hours, so many times I had to go through my resupply quickly so
that I could turn around and send the now-empty shipping parts home.
Sometimes I'd just have to carry the empty parts to the next town stop with
outgoing mail.  Luckily, the parts are light.

The baby bottle liner split a couple of times on the trail, most notably
after a failed rock bear hang.  The system never failed during shipping.

I always kept the system in a zip top bag to keep the oils isolated and to
keep the almond butter contained should it want to come out.  When the
system failed, which I would say was probably 4 or 5 times on a 5-month
trip, it was a big mess in the bag (but still yummy).  Otherwise the system
let me eat the almond butter fairly easily AND NEATLY.  It was nice to be
able to throw out the dirtiest part, the liner, and just have small plastic
parts to clean.

I had four or five of the 8-oz shipping containers because boxes got
delayed, or I was delayed in sending them back.

There's a photo of me holding a liner and the hiking container (minus the
lid) at the 2002 ADZPCTKO at
http://www.cupcakewalk.com/photos/cupcake.html#adz.  I'll bring the system
to 2003 ADZPCTKO.

If you are still confused?  Contact me off-list, or go to a store and look.
It will make sense.

John B./Cupcake



--__--__--

Message: 28
Date: 5 Feb 2003 05:48:11 -0000
From: "Tristan Sundsted" <tsundsted@backpacker.com>
To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
Subject: Fwd:Re: [pct-l] Burning Deserts

There is something to be said for natures cleaning!  I live in Oregon and y=
ou look at some of our old growth forests, they are dying and being squeeze=
d out by other species of trees.  They need the burning to clear the ground=
and to start new seedlings.  It=92s an interesting thing, by protecting al=
l the forests we are actually hurting them in some ways.  I don=92t mean ev=
eryone should burn a forest but sometimes you have to wonder how much good =
we are doing!=0D =0D =0D On Wed, 5 Feb 2003 00:14:32 EST
CMountainDave@aol.com wrote:=0D I always wondered why the chaparral
consisted of plants that are so=0D flammable. They are probably as flammable
as kerosene. Why I wondered would=  a=0D plant evolve to be flammable in a
hot and dry climate where the risk of fir= e=0D is so great. One would think
they would evolve to be flame retardant, much = as=0D the bark of a Jeffery
pine.=0D
  Then one day I was walking through a landscape mixed with the usual chap=
=0D plants and 2 to 5 year old pine trees and it dawned on me. They are
flammab= le=0D on purpose. They want to burn because it kills all the plants
that would=0D eventually crowd and shade them out. Fire doesn't kill the
chap stuff's roo= ts=0D and they grow back. The pine trees take much longer
to reestablish, and by= =0D then its time for another fire.=0D  The real
question is: How do these plants know that fire is their friend? = Oh=0D I
know, the evolutionists say it was random natural selection. But it sure =
as=0D hell seems like a thought out strategy to me. To become so flammable
in a= =0D near desert environment by chance? Logic says no way. Just as
likely to not= =0D be flammable=0D
_______________________________________________=0D
PCT-L mailing list=0D
PCT-L@mailman.backcountry.net=0D
http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l=0D




--__--__--

Message: 29
From: "WUJCIK,SCOTTIE (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <scottie.wujcik@hp.com>
To: "'pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net'" <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 11:24:24 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] PCT North of Hwy 20 in Oregon

This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.
--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
If you're trip planning for a thru hike, here is some information on the PCT
trail starting at Hwy 20, Santiam pass in Oregon.  There isn't much water
(none, as I recall) on that leg of the trail for quite some distance.
However, when you get there and begin that section of the trail, you may
want to conceder taking the East side detour around Three Finger Jack.  Just
as you start on the trail, there is a trail to Square Lake which is about
1.7 miles, then to Round Lake, 2.0 miles, then to Jack lake (all totaled)
8.5 miles. There are camping areas at Jack lake or you can continue on to
Wasco Lake, another 2.5 miles.  There is a connecting trail from Wasco lake
back to the PCT, turn right at the top and continue onward.  At least this
way you'll have good water sources along that section, and the trail isn't
that steep.  The Pct from Hwy20 goes up through numerous switch backs and
continues to climb for the first 7 miles until you reach the north point of
Three Finger Jack where the trail crests.  That is a beautiful spot for
lunch or a Kodak moment.   From that point looking north (on a clear day)
you can even see the Washington side of the Columbia Gorge, and Mt.
Jefferson is just up the trail a ways.  As I said, just some information for
planning purpose only.  I'm not suggesting you detour off the trail, but if
you need water, here is an option.

Scottie
Three lungs

--__--__--

Message: 30
From: Brucewise@aol.com
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 18:28:59 EST
To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
Subject: [pct-l] trail partner

--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
Starting at Campo April 20th and going to Interstate 10 at Palm Springs
solo. Company would be appreciated if this fits with anyones plans. I'm
coming over from Phoenix. Thanks Bruce Wise

--__--__--

Message: 31
From: "Jon Lovejoy" <jon@lovejoyart.com>
To: <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
Cc: <AV8TORX@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 11:21:55 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] RE: Pondering

The only way I can hike the PCT is in sections. I'd like to thru-hike when I
retire, but I can't wait that long - so I steal time to hike whenever
possible. Sometimes that's just a 3-day weekend. This year, I have a 5-week
leave from work. For me, that's a lot.

I really like the freedom of section hiking. I'm not trying to beat winter
to Canada, I'm just spending as much time on the trail as I can. It seems a
lot of folks consider Kennedy Meadows as a rite of passage, like you've not
really started hiking 'til you're there. I'm looking forward to the Sierras,
but I'm seeing a lot of really cool stuff along the way and I'm walking on
the PCT. For now, that's enough.

Ojos wrote:

The hard part for me was doing the trail over a few summers. We did 555.1
miles last summer and will do about another 500-600 miles this summer. We
will do it like that until we finish. I wanted so much to continue and
complete the PCT in one thru hike. I am envious of all the thru hikers who
completed it in one season. <snip>




--__--__--

Message: 32
Reply-To: "AsABat" <AsABat@4Jeffrey.Net>
From: "AsABat" <wjjeff@cox.net>
To: "jape" <jape@nethere.com>, "PCT" <pct-l@backcountry.net>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] tarp, tent, or nothing
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 18:09:12 -0800

I have to agree that you need SOMETHING even in Southern California. I hiked
the San Jacintos the weekend before the kickoff last year and saw no view
because of the snow falling as I hiked along Fuller Ridge. I was very
fortunate I had my Silshelter to get out of the snow. It was great watching
the snow slide off the shelter while enjoying hot soup in my warm sleeping
bag.

AsABat



--__--__--

Message: 33
Reply-To: "Christine Kudija" <cmkudija@earthlink.net>
From: "Christine Kudija" <cmkudija@earthlink.net>
To: "John Brennan" <john@frozenpoodle.com>,
   "PCT List" <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Nut Butter Carrying System -Long Post
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 23:08:11 -0800

Thanks, Cupcake!  I missed the part at the ADZ last year where you used a
portion of the rigid baby bottle exterior (with its threaded portion) to
seal the liners.  Consequently I wasn't able to achieve a good seal with
just the liner and the screw-on lid.  thanks for clearing up the mystery!

Christine "Ceanothus" Kudija

"Never measure the height of a mountain, until you have reached the top.
Then you will see how low it was."  Dag Hammarskjold

----- Original Message -----
From: "John Brennan" <john@frozenpoodle.com>
To: "PCT List" <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 10:48 PM
Subject: [pct-l] Nut Butter Carrying System -Long Post


Cupcake here.  I am far behind on this list, but I have gotten a couple of
alerts that hikers want to know about my NBCS.  Search no further! Following
is information about a .7 oz system for carrying nut butters using baby
bottle parts and liners. Long post.

The Nut Butter Carrying System: A .7 oz no-mess solution to shipping and
carrying nut butters on long backpacking trips.

NBCS uses rigid plastic baby bottles and pliable baby bottle liners to make
a fairly neat way to carry peanut butter, almond butter, or any other thick
oily paste you may want to hike with.

*The Parts*
-Hike: One 4-ounce "Platex Disposables Original Nurser" (baby bottle)
[Modify and carry on the trail.] Has a body and a screw-on lid.
-Ship: Two (or more) 8-ounce "Platex Disposables Original Nursers" (baby
bottle) Has a body and a screw-on lid. [Use to ship nut butter safely.]
-Seal: Orthodontic Nipples with Sealing Discs (need only the sealing discs)
Seals the lid and replaces the nipple. [This is the secret.]
-Dispose: Ready-formed and Disposable Bottle Liners 4- or 8-oz [Throw away
the mess.]

*Cut the Weight*
Cut the 4-ounce bottle bottom to reduce weight. Make it so that the lower
clear part has just enough to grip: with the screw-on lid on, about a thick
finger's width below the lid.  Mine ended up being at the just below the
second-from-the-top grip. Basically, you end up with the threads plus a
section to grip.

*The System*
The modified rigid bottle, a liner, a retainer ring, and a sealing disk are
the four parts.

*How it works*
Receive liner full of nut butter in an 8 oz container (shipping container)
in resupply box. Transfer full liner to modified container (hiking
container). Return shipping part to home base.

Alternately, if you are resupplying along the way, you just need to find a
way to get baby bottle liners to yourself.  Bounce them or carry a few. They
are very light.

*Notes*
Hike with system in zip top bag, just in case.
Playtex will send you additional sealing discs at no charge, but it takes a
while. 800-222-0453 Here's a URL you thought you'd never see on this list:
http://www.playtexbaby.com/  Look for disposable bottles.  There's an
illustration on page two of a pdf:
http://www.playtexbaby.com/bottlesandpacifiers/howto/pdf/DispStartSetBroc.pd
f.
Get rid of the nipples and the opaque snap-on caps from the sets you buy.

*Post-Trip Evaluation*
The NBCS pretty much worked for a thru-hike, and I'd definitely use it for
short trips.  The biggest hassle was returning the shipping portion back to
my Dad who was coordinating my resupplies.  Post offices don't keep
thru-hiker hours, so many times I had to go through my resupply quickly so
that I could turn around and send the now-empty shipping parts home.
Sometimes I'd just have to carry the empty parts to the next town stop with
outgoing mail.  Luckily, the parts are light.

The baby bottle liner split a couple of times on the trail, most notably
after a failed rock bear hang.  The system never failed during shipping.

I always kept the system in a zip top bag to keep the oils isolated and to
keep the almond butter contained should it want to come out.  When the
system failed, which I would say was probably 4 or 5 times on a 5-month
trip, it was a big mess in the bag (but still yummy).  Otherwise the system
let me eat the almond butter fairly easily AND NEATLY.  It was nice to be
able to throw out the dirtiest part, the liner, and just have small plastic
parts to clean.

I had four or five of the 8-oz shipping containers because boxes got
delayed, or I was delayed in sending them back.

There's a photo of me holding a liner and the hiking container (minus the
lid) at the 2002 ADZPCTKO at
http://www.cupcakewalk.com/photos/cupcake.html#adz.  I'll bring the system
to 2003 ADZPCTKO.

If you are still confused?  Contact me off-list, or go to a store and look.
It will make sense.

John B./Cupcake


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--__--__--

Message: 34
From: "Andrew Geibel" <ageibel@teleport.com>
To: <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] PCT North of Hwy 20 in Oregon
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 00:14:25 -0800

Thanks Scottie,

More info from a local who's done this section:  this is a ~17 mile
waterless stretch, between Coldwater Spring (7 miles south of Santiam Pass)
and Minto Pass (10 miles north of Santiam Pass).

If you can arrange to span this in one day, tank up & cruise through.  The
west-side traverse of Three Fingered Jack is spectacular.  Or Scottie's idea
is good too (it will take you off the guidebook maps, but not very far).

If you need to camp in between, the best option is probably Summit Lake,
which is 1/2 mile east of the PCT on the south flank of Three Fingered Jack.
It's off trail, but is supposedly easy to get to (famous last words).  I've
seen a couple crappy ponds on the PCT, but would certainly not depend on
them. Also, the guidebook mentions Douthit Spring, which is east of the PCT
next to the highway.  Sounds noisy & undependable!

Another strong word of advice: *don't* depend on Coldwater Spring.  Plan on
going to Big Lake for sure, ~1.5 mile round trip detour.  I've never seen a
drop at Coldwater, in early August or even late July.  Besides, the lake is
a better reward after many tough lava miles.

-Andrew



--__--__--

Message: 35
From: "christin pruett" <christinpruett@hotmail.com>
To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Burning Deserts
Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2003 16:17:21 +0000

>The real question is: How do these plants know that fire is their
>friend? Oh I know, the evolutionists say it was random natural
>selection. But it sure as hell seems like a thought out strategy to me.
>To become so flammable in a near desert environment by chance? Logic
>says no way. Just as likely to not be flammable

Are most plants in chapparal areas flammable?  I'm not much of a botanist
but natural selection does seem to be a pretty good explanation for the
evolution of flammability in certain species.  For the exact reasons you
described - eliminating the competition.  Also some plants like disturbance
and so the evolution of a trait that aids in providing disturbance would be
highly beneficial.  Of course flammability might just be a side affect of
something else that is good for the continued existence and thus increased
reproductive output of these plants such as: plants originally evolved the
flammable oils because they made the plant taste bad or they kept the plant
from losing water.  You could go on for years pondering this one but I don't
think most desert plants are flammable however almost all of them have some
defense against loss of water and being eaten (e.g small or greatly reduced
leaves and spines).

A few desert questions:  I always thought that the Mojave was the only
desert on the PCT but I think I'm wrong, does the Sonoran desert extend into
southern California?  Also does anyone know what sets these two apart, I
know that the Sonoran and Chihuahuan have different key plant species, is
this also true for the Mojave (e.g. Joshua trees???).  Is the Mojave
substantially hotter than the Chihuahuan?  Just curious.

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--__--__--

Message: 36
From: Bighummel@aol.com
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 12:13:08 EST
Subject: Re: [pct-l] RE: Pondering
To: jon@lovejoyart.com, pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net

--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
In a message dated 2/4/2003 10:53:03 PM Pacific Standard Time,
jon@lovejoyart.com writes:


> I really like the freedom of section hiking.

There are 4,200 members in the PCTA.  My bet is that MOST are section
hikers.  You are in the majority.  Thru-hikers are a strange anomaly! ;-)

Greg

--__--__--

Message: 37
From: Lonetrail@aol.com
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 09:39:44 EST
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Section hike near I-10 for the end of Febuary?
To: Slyatpct@aol.com, pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net

A Loop

Last January I did N-S from Big Bear to Cabozon about 70 mi. Great winter
hike from High Mt to High Desert to Low Desert. You can Shuttle several
areas to shorten trip if snow can leave you in. I''m thinking of doing the
Wrightwood to Aqua Duluse in a few weeks.

lonetrail

--__--__--

Message: 38
From: "tsimon10" <tsimon10@cogeco.ca>
To: <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 10:03:33 -0500
Subject: [pct-l] Re: Southern Sierra trout

I'm happy that I could make such a controversial statement that so many
would take the time disagree with me when I said Southern Sierra trout take
better to flies. I'm the type who goes to a party, waits for everyone to
have a few drinks, throws out a few controversial remarks, then stands back
and watches the fur fly. If you go to the Fishing Outfitters in Bishop,
C.A., they and many others will tell you to use a small black fly, around
1/3 of an inch across. I forget the exact name. Oh! And I caught one
t...h...i...s   l...o...n...g.



--__--__--

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End of PCT-L Digest