[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]

[pct-l] Down Sleeping Bags



Stacey,

The August 2002 issue of Backpacker Magazine has a good article on down
sleeping bags.  That may be a good place to get some information.  The bags
mentioned in the test are made in women's sizes also.  Or go on line and
check out (www.marmot.com) (www.mountainhardwear.com) or (www.rei.com)  Just
some suggestions.  Happy hiking.

Scottie


-----Original Message-----
From: pct-l-request@mailman.backcountry.net
[mailto:pct-l-request@mailman.backcountry.net]
Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2002 10:02 AM
To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
Subject: PCT-L digest, Vol 1 #540 - 19 msgs


Send PCT-L mailing list submissions to
	pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
	http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
	pct-l-request@mailman.backcountry.net

You can reach the person managing the list at
	pct-l-admin@mailman.backcountry.net

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of PCT-L digest..."


Today's Topics:

   1. Re: 1977 Thruhike disqualified. Go back and do it again.
(Bighummel@aol.com)
   2. any word of Edmond/Tangent? (Edmond Meinfelder)
   3. News from Edmond/Tangent (Edmond Meinfelder)
   4. RE: 1977 Thruhike disqualified. Go back and do it again. (Carl
Siechert)
   5. Re: 1977 Thruhike disqualified. Go back and do it again. (John
Musielewicz)
   6. Re: The Summit (John Musielewicz)
   7. CA sections PQ, OR section A, B. (Frank Kroger)
   8. Re: 1977 Thruhike disqualified. Go back and do it again. (Randy
Forsland)
   9. Re: CA sections PQ, OR section A, B. correction (Frank Kroger)
  10. RE: 1977 Thruhike disqualified. Go back and do it again. (Reynolds,
WT)
  11. Fw:the Garden of Eden (mardav)
  12. Re: 1977 Thruhike disqualified. Go back and do it again.
(Bighummel@aol.com)
  13. OR section A & B (Steve Stenkamp)
  14. Cabin on (Frank Kroger)
  15. Re: PCT-L dpacks: comfort vs weight: Why packs work, Part 2
(earlb@copper.net)
  16. Re: 1977 Thruhike disqualified. Go back and do it again. (Carl
Siechert)
  17. RE: 1977 Thruhike disqualified. Go back and do it again. (Reynolds,
WT)
  18. hacking (admin) (Ryan K. Brooks)
  19. Down Sleeping Bags (Stacey Turner)

--__--__--

Message: 1
From: Bighummel@aol.com
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 14:31:53 EDT
Subject: Re: [pct-l] 1977 Thruhike disqualified. Go back and do it again.
To: reynolds@ilan.com, carl@pct77.org, pct-l@backcountry.net

Reynold writes:

> You were carrying the load too LOW. On a non-yoke shoulder system the
> shoulder straps should go up from the shoulders at a 45 degree angle to
the
> frame. Generally, this means the location where the straps join the frame
> should be 2-3 inches above the top of the shoulder.

Yea, right.  Just try to carry that large of a pack, filled to the gills, 
weighing it at 75+ lbs with the shoulder straps going back at a 45 degree 
angle!  You would have to have the damn waste belt pulled into what the old 
Aussie convicts used to call a "gut pinch".  The waste belt would be so
tight 
that it would cut off circulation to your hips and legs and you'd fall down 
like a pigmy overloaded with an elephant just twenty yards down the trail.

With that much weight you HAVE to balance the load of the weight between the

shoulders and waste or else one or the other wears out.  It typically is 
shifted back and forth to lessen the deadening of nerves in either place.  

What the hell is a "non-yoke shoulder system"?  I'll take mine sunny side up

with the yoke please, but throw away the white!

Oh, any any salty '77er worth his damn wouldn't turn states evidence on a 
comrad for all of the polarguard in China!

Greg

"Salvitur Ambulando"
(walking solves all things)
            St. Augustine


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

--__--__--

Message: 2
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 16:07:23 -0700
To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
From: Edmond Meinfelder <edmond@meinfelder.com>
Subject: [pct-l] any word of Edmond/Tangent?

Hi,

This is actually Dinah, Edmond/Tangent's resupply person. I'm wondering if 
anyone has news of him. His last known position was leaving Lake Charlotte 
on the 15th. I believe he may have hooked up with North, Robar, CoSue and 
Refried. None of them had signed in at Tuolumne Meadows when I checked the 
register there on Saturday afternoon at about 4pm.

I wouldn't be worried, except I am also monitoring his finances and I show 
no credit card or ATM activity since the 14th. Seems like he would have had 
to do some shopping at VVR or Red's...

Anyhow, any news would be good to hear. Just send me email at my domain 
metagrrrl.com.

Thanks,
Dinah


--__--__--

Message: 3
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 22:38:53 -0700
To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
From: Edmond Meinfelder <edmond@meinfelder.com>
Subject: [pct-l] News from Edmond/Tangent

Hello all,

Dinah here.
Just had a call from Edmond and he's doing fine. Had a spot of food 
poisoning which slowed him down for a bit, but he's better now. He's 
traveling with CoSue, EasyE and Chucky and they're staying tonight at a ski 
resort in Mammoth. He was burbling delightly on the phone about the beds, 
the shower, the two - two! - phone lines in the room, the pool, the hot 
tub, the pizza... :)
He says he's about two days south of Tuolumne Meadows now. Still having a 
wonderful time.

While on the phone with him I checked the status of the fire north of 
Yosemite and it's now listed as 95% contained, so that's more good news.

happy trails!


--__--__--

Message: 4
From: Carl Siechert <CarlS@swdocs.com>
To: pct-l@backcountry.net
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 09:59:31 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] RE: 1977 Thruhike disqualified. Go back and do it again.

> score. You must complete the trail in 2003 to be considered a 
> thruhiker.

Sounds good to me. Does this mean I get into ADZPCTKO for free? By the way,
is that "all you can eat"?

> However, if you turn states evidence on Strider your sentence may be
> lessened

Not a problem. I've been looking for a reason to turn that guy in ever since
he and Hacker pulled that stunt where they hiked 43 miles one day just to
show up the Minnesota Milers.

> You were carrying the load too LOW. On a non-yoke shoulder system the
> shoulder straps should go up from the shoulders at a 45 
> degree angle to the
> frame. Generally, this means the location where the straps 
> join the frame
> should be 2-3 inches above the top of the shoulder.

I'll have to dig out my old Kelty file. The shoulder-strap attachment points
are pretty low on the pack...so even with the straps level the pack rides
high. I'm pretty sure that was part of Kelty's pack-fitting instructions.

--__--__--

Message: 5
From: John Musielewicz <jm@bluebuzz.com>
To: pct-l@backcountry.net
Subject: Re: [pct-l] 1977 Thruhike disqualified. Go back and do it again.
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 14:26:55 -0500

I donno. I've used external frame packs with the size of load you are
talking about with straps at less than a 45 and now an internal with
straps at a 45 find about equal carrying capacity at a medium heavy
load like 75+ (up to maybe 85 or 90). If I was carrying a  heavy load
now and carrying it any distance I'd want to use a good custom pack
frame, probably something along the3 lines of a packboard,  anyway
with the load properly distributed and lashed which you really can't
do with these commercial packs. Then I would be worrying about the
angle of the straps and want the angle custom fit to my body. I would
certainly want space between the upper part of the straps. Curious to
know what a yoke suspen is since a yoke is quite diferant in design
from a backpack suspenstion.



On Wed, 26 Jun 2002 14:31:53 EDT, you wrote:

>Reynold writes:
>
>> You were carrying the load too LOW. On a non-yoke shoulder system the
>> shoulder straps should go up from the shoulders at a 45 degree angle to
the
>> frame. Generally, this means the location where the straps join the frame
>> should be 2-3 inches above the top of the shoulder.
>
>Yea, right.  Just try to carry that large of a pack, filled to the gills, 
>weighing it at 75+ lbs with the shoulder straps going back at a 45 degree 
>angle!  You would have to have the damn waste belt pulled into what the old

>Aussie convicts used to call a "gut pinch".  The waste belt would be so
tight 
>that it would cut off circulation to your hips and legs and you'd fall down

>like a pigmy overloaded with an elephant just twenty yards down the trail.
>
>With that much weight you HAVE to balance the load of the weight between
the 
>shoulders and waste or else one or the other wears out.  It typically is 
>shifted back and forth to lessen the deadening of nerves in either place.  
>
>What the hell is a "non-yoke shoulder system"?  I'll take mine sunny side
up 
>with the yoke please, but throw away the white!
>
>Oh, any any salty '77er worth his damn wouldn't turn states evidence on a 
>comrad for all of the polarguard in China!
>
>Greg
>
>"Salvitur Ambulando"
>(walking solves all things)
>            St. Augustine
>
>
>--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
>multipart/alternative
>  text/plain (text body -- kept)
>  text/html
>---
>_______________________________________________
>PCT-L mailing list
>PCT-L@mailman.backcountry.net
>http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l


--__--__--

Message: 6
From: John Musielewicz <jm@bluebuzz.com>
To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
Subject: Re: [pct-l] The Summit
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 14:49:49 -0500

The summit? The summit is all and be all of being there!! There is no
other reason WORTH being there. There is no excuse worthy of turning
away and not reaching the summit. Nail your buddies to the face and
climb up there dead decaying corpses if you have to to reach it:)

On Tue, 25 Jun 2002 15:15:03 EDT, you wrote:

>First , good choice turning around at 14,000ft. Mountain Dave!!! Better to 
>live to climb another day. ( The summit is only an excuse to be on the 
>mountain anyway!!) Pack weights.?? The Kelty Tioga just keeps getting
better 


--__--__--

Message: 7
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 13:54:53 -0700 (PDT)
From: Frank Kroger <fkroger1999@yahoo.com>
To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
Cc: callahan@mind.net, callahan@callahanslodge.com
Subject: [pct-l] CA sections PQ, OR section A, B.


 I hiked Sections PQ, northern California between I-5 Dunsmuir and Seiad
Valley and found them basically passable, I was happy to have my ice ax for
crossing the higher elevations in the Marble Wilderness.
In southern Oregon the trail is free enough of snow to be followed between
Seiad Valley, I-5 and Oregon State route 140. I lost the trail half way
between 140 and Crater Lake and turned back because I was running low on
food and was close to the time when my family was expecting a phone call
from me. There were footsteps showing someone was not far ahead of me and I
assume he got through. I also met an Austrian throughhiker who had started
at Campo mid April and had made it all the way that far without skipping any
parts such as high Sierras. So people are getting through. Also New
Zeelander Kiwi seemed to be ahead according to the log books.
In Dunsmuir I stayed at the Travelodge ( pretty sure that was what it was
called, on east side of main street through town, just north of the
Thriftway store). It is also close to the post office.
Duinsmuir has a Thai restaurant, west side of the main street through town,
right down town. I receved extra noodels at no charge when I told them I was
PCT hiker. 
Castella has only post office, gas station with store.
In Seiad Valley stayed in the "bunk house" at the trailer park next to
(east) of store/post office/restaurant. Charge was $10 per night. included
sheets on one of three beds, tv  (they have large collection of video tapes
on loan at no charge), microwave, refrigerator and can opener. Owner's name:
Marge.
There is a cabin just before the OR border. Soon after you cross a wooden
footbridge you go through some forest, then as you head east you go through
a meadow, the cabin is on your right. It is unlocked and has a comfortable
mattress on the loft. 
At I-5 camped on the lawn at Callahan for $5/night.. Ron and Donna are the
owners. Very friendly and helpful.  Paid another $5 for shower and clothes
wash for which I was lent a bath robe. For the shower had to wait for guests
to leave in the morning and then use their room. 
The Callahan restaurant has entrees between $10-$20. For $10 you get 5
course spaghetti dinner with all you can eat on the spaghetti for PCT hikers
If you notice the Tibetan temple etc in the valley to the South as you
approach I-5 do not bother to go there in the hope of being well received.
Ron from Callahan drove me out there (about 20 mile round trip).I was told
that they were "not a motel." They do not have the time of day for PCT
hikers.
I have gone home for a few days of R&R and plan to return to Kennedy Meadows
to fill in the Sierras that I had skipped. 
Satellite, Frank Kroger, Berkeley



---------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Sign-up for Video Highlights of 2002 FIFA World Cup

--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

--__--__--

Message: 8
From: "Randy Forsland" <randy_forsland@hotmail.com>
To: pct-l@backcountry.net
Subject: Re: [pct-l] 1977 Thruhike disqualified. Go back and do it again.
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 14:10:15 -0700

>>The waste belt would be so tight that it would cut off circulation to your

>>hips and legs and you'd fall down
>>like a pigmy overloaded with an elephant just twenty yards down the trail.

I don't even want to imagine what a "waste belt" is used for...or where it 
attaches...


_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx


--__--__--

Message: 9
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 15:00:08 -0700 (PDT)
From: Frank Kroger <fkroger1999@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] CA sections PQ, OR section A, B. correction
To: Frank Kroger <fkroger1999@yahoo.com>, pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
Cc: callahan@mind.net, callahan@callahanslodge.com


Correction: The cabin I mentioned on the CA/OR border is on the left as you
head east (north)
Frank
  Frank Kroger <fkroger1999@yahoo.com> wrote: 
I hiked Sections PQ, northern California between I-5 Dunsmuir and Seiad
Valley and found them basically passable, I was happy to have my ice ax for
crossing the higher elevations in the Marble Wilderness.
In southern Oregon the trail is free enough of snow to be followed between
Seiad Valley, I-5 and Oregon State route 140. I lost the trail half way
between 140 and Crater Lake and turned back because I was running low on
food and was close to the time when my family was expecting a phone call
from me. There were footsteps showing someone was not far ahead of me and I
assume he got through. I also met an Austrian throughhiker who had started
at Campo mid April and had made it all the way that far without skipping any
parts such as high Sierras. So people are getting through. Also New
Zeelander Kiwi seemed to be ahead according to the log books.
In Dunsmuir I stayed at the Travelodge ( pretty sure that was what it was
called, on east side of main street through town, just north of the
Thriftway store). It is also close to the post office.
Duinsmuir has a Thai restaurant, west side of the main street through town,
right down town. I receved extra noodels at no charge when I told them I was
PCT hiker. 
Castella has only post office, gas station with store.
In Seiad Valley stayed in the "bunk house" at the trailer park next to
(east) of store/post office/restaurant. Charge was $10 per night. included
sheets on one of three beds, tv (they have large collection of video tapes
on loan at no charge), microwave, refrigerator and can opener. Owner's name:
Marge.
There is a cabin just before the OR border. Soon after you cross a wooden
footbridge you go through some forest, then as you head east you go through
a meadow, the cabin is on your right. It is unlocked and has a comfortable
mattress on the loft. 
At I-5 camped on the lawn at Callahan for $5/night.. Ron and Donna are the
owners. Very friendly and helpful. Paid another $5 for shower and clothes
wash for which I was lent a bath robe. For the shower had to wait for guests
to leave in the morning and then use their room. 
The Callahan restaurant has entrees between $10-$20. For $10 you get 5
course spaghetti dinner with all you can eat on the spaghetti for PCT hikers
If you notice the Tibetan temple etc in the valley to the South as you
approach I-5 do not bother to go there in the hope of being well received.
Ron from Callahan drove me out there (about 20 mile round trip).I was told
that they were "not a motel." They do not have the time of day for PCT
hikers.
I have gone home for a few days of R&R and plan to return to Kennedy Meadows
to fill in the Sierras that I had skipped. 
Satellite, Frank Kroger, Berkeley



---------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Sign-up for Video Highlights of 2002 FIFA World Cup

--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
text/plain (text body -- kept)
text/html
---
_______________________________________________
PCT-L mailing list
PCT-L@mailman.backcountry.net
http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l


---------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Sign-up for Video Highlights of 2002 FIFA World Cup

--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

--__--__--

Message: 10
From: "Reynolds, WT" <reynolds@iLAN.com>
To: pct-l@backcountry.net
Subject: RE: [pct-l] 1977 Thruhike disqualified. Go back and do it again.
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 15:57:03 -0700


A Yoke shoulder suspension system is typically used on an upscale internal
frame pack. The shoulder straps proceed over the shoulders and down the back
meeting in the center of the backpack creating a "Y", hence Yoke system.
Usually the exact location on the backpack where the yoke meets is
adjustable since, with most internal frame packs, the relationship of the
pack bag to the waist belt is fixed. Moving the Y [the location where the
two shoulder straps meet] up lengthens the effective length of the pack
while moving it down shortens the effective length. Understanding the theory
of carrying a load, one BIG benefit of the Yoke system is that it allows
salesmen to sell packs that don't really fit. Lenghting the pack length will
allow the pack to be worn by a hiker who is too tall but the load will be
too low. A real benefit of the Yoke system, however, is that the shoulder
straps are in contact with the hikers body over both the front and back of
the shoulders. This makes the pack feel like it is more "connected" to the
body, a condition which many hikers like, [at least initially when they try
on the pack before buying it] and does in fact add a modicum of control of
the load [most of the load control attributed to internal frame packs comes
from their lower center of gravity. This is why internal packs are better
for off trail scrambling but inferior for on trail walking]. Obviously the
problem with the Yoke approach is that there is nothing to prevent the pack
from pulling back on top and creating pressure on the shoulders when it
does. To overcome this, pack manufacturers add stabilizing straps that run
from the shoulder straps to the top of the pack bag. These stabilizing
straps should run upward from the shoulder at a 45 degree angle to the bpack
bag. This is to avoid shoulder compresson when the pack pulls backward.

With the Kelty Tioga SOME pack length adjustment was available by moving the
hip belt up or down a bit but, in reality, one simply needed to be the right
height for it to fit properly. Later Tioga's provided two horizonal stays
and the straps could be attached to either of them but this was only
marginally better. This is why most women hate external frame packs. They
don't fit. Although Dick Kelty was the inventor and pioneer of the hip belt,
the Jansport people soon designed a better pack. On the Jansport pack the
horizonal member is adjustable vertically as are the swing arms. It is
possible to set the pack length exactly and position the load relative to
the shoulders, up or down as desired.

Looking at the 77 Kelty Kids, it is clear that the pack lengths are too
short. Dick had not yet added that second horizonal stay yet. The load is
carried high enough but any pulling back on the pack [a given with a load
carried high]would compress the shoulders. In later years Jansport went to a
yoke system on its external frame packs. The added control was a big plus. A
real strength of the yoke system is the ability to keep the shoulder straps
loose while walking down the trail [the stabilizing straps prevent the pack
from tilting backward] while tightening the straps [and loosening the
stabilizing straps somewhat] over rough terrain. 

It would be trivial to add stabilizing straps to the 77 Kelty pack. Simply
sew the strap on the shoulder strap just before the shoulder and attach them
to the vertical center stays. I make this suggestion in an effort to help
out the 77 thruhikers on their mandatory 2003 thruhike.

And to John who wants a custom pack custom fit to his body, I will loan my
Jansport frame.

-----Original Message-----
From: John Musielewicz [mailto:jm@bluebuzz.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2002 12:27 PM
To: pct-l@backcountry.net
Subject: Re: [pct-l] 1977 Thruhike disqualified. Go back and do it
again.


I donno. I've used external frame packs with the size of load you are
talking about with straps at less than a 45 and now an internal with
straps at a 45 find about equal carrying capacity at a medium heavy
load like 75+ (up to maybe 85 or 90). If I was carrying a  heavy load
now and carrying it any distance I'd want to use a good custom pack
frame, probably something along the3 lines of a packboard,  anyway
with the load properly distributed and lashed which you really can't
do with these commercial packs. Then I would be worrying about the
angle of the straps and want the angle custom fit to my body. I would
certainly want space between the upper part of the straps. Curious to
know what a yoke suspen is since a yoke is quite diferant in design
from a backpack suspenstion.



On Wed, 26 Jun 2002 14:31:53 EDT, you wrote:

>Reynold writes:
>
>> You were carrying the load too LOW. On a non-yoke shoulder system the
>> shoulder straps should go up from the shoulders at a 45 degree angle to
the
>> frame. Generally, this means the location where the straps join the frame
>> should be 2-3 inches above the top of the shoulder.
>
>Yea, right.  Just try to carry that large of a pack, filled to the gills, 
>weighing it at 75+ lbs with the shoulder straps going back at a 45 degree 
>angle!  You would have to have the damn waste belt pulled into what the old

>Aussie convicts used to call a "gut pinch".  The waste belt would be so
tight 
>that it would cut off circulation to your hips and legs and you'd fall down

>like a pigmy overloaded with an elephant just twenty yards down the trail.
>
>With that much weight you HAVE to balance the load of the weight between
the 
>shoulders and waste or else one or the other wears out.  It typically is 
>shifted back and forth to lessen the deadening of nerves in either place.  
>
>What the hell is a "non-yoke shoulder system"?  I'll take mine sunny side
up 
>with the yoke please, but throw away the white!
>
>Oh, any any salty '77er worth his damn wouldn't turn states evidence on a 
>comrad for all of the polarguard in China!
>
>Greg
>
>"Salvitur Ambulando"
>(walking solves all things)
>            St. Augustine
>
>
>--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
>multipart/alternative
>  text/plain (text body -- kept)
>  text/html
>---
>_______________________________________________
>PCT-L mailing list
>PCT-L@mailman.backcountry.net
>http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l

_______________________________________________
PCT-L mailing list
PCT-L@mailman.backcountry.net
http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l

--__--__--

Message: 11
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 16:35:59 -0700 (PDT)
From: mardav <mardav@charter.net>
To: pct-l@backcountry.net
Subject: [pct-l] Fw:the Garden of Eden

Content-Type: application/octet-stream;
	name=tn_kp00080x036_jpg[1].jpg
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
Content-ID: <NM2871S40h445I>
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--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/html
  audio/x-midi
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
---

--__--__--

Message: 12
From: Bighummel@aol.com
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 19:51:08 EDT
Subject: Re: [pct-l] 1977 Thruhike disqualified. Go back and do it again.
To: randy_forsland@hotmail.com, pct-l@backcountry.net

A "waste belt" is otherwise known as a "hip belt" that is worn so low on the

abdomen as to catch all bodily waste.  Handling of the waste belt has been 
known to cause serious stomach problems in backpackers (and pygmies).

Wise Ass

"Salvitur Ambulando"
(walking solves all things)
            St. Augustine


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

--__--__--

Message: 13
From: "Steve Stenkamp" <sskamp@bendnet.com>
To: "pct-l" <pct-l@backcountry.net>
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 19:58:11 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] OR section A & B

Correction: The cabin I mentioned on the CA/OR border is on the left as =
you head east (north)

Last Summer I spent the night in the cabin.  It is just after Donomore =
Creek.  The snow load has pushed the cabin over and the floor had a 8-10 =
inch drop the length of my sleeping bag.  The owners of the cabin are =
also the landowners or leasee's of Donomore Meadow and don't mind if =
people use it.  The best feature is the 3 sided 2 "holer" in the back.


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

--__--__--

Message: 14
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 20:05:36 -0700 (PDT)
From: Frank Kroger <fkroger1999@yahoo.com>
To: pct-l@backcountry.net
Subject: [pct-l] Cabin on


 Steve: That would explain the cables at the back of the cabin which are
holding it up.
Frank "Satellite"
  Steve Stenkamp <sskamp@bendnet.com> wrote: Correction: The cabin I
mentioned on the CA/OR border is on the left as you head east (north)

Last Summer I spent the night in the cabin. It is just after Donomore Creek.
The snow load has pushed the cabin over and the floor had a 8-10 inch drop
the length of my sleeping bag. The owners of the cabin are also the
landowners or leasee's of Donomore Meadow and don't mind if people use it.
The best feature is the 3 sided 2 "holer" in the back.


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
text/plain (text body -- kept)
text/html
---
_______________________________________________
PCT-L mailing list
PCT-L@mailman.backcountry.net
http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l


---------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Sign-up for Video Highlights of 2002 FIFA World Cup

--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

--__--__--

Message: 15
From: <earlb@copper.net>
To: <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 20:13:45 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Re: PCT-L dpacks: comfort vs weight: Why packs work, Part 2

> My problem with these light packs is that they do not consider that
a women's
> body is different then mens.

You might take a look at the Acr'teryx Khamsin series of packs.  The
52, 3400 cc without collar extended, is about four pounds.  The 62,
4000 cc without collar extended, is a few ounces heavier.  When
khamsin's unisex belt is adjusted to maximize cant, the cant is
considerable. It ought to accommodate the shapeliest of hips.

Last year, a woman through-hiked the PCT carrying one of these packs,
which suggests to me that Acr'teryx got it right, at least for women.

Earl




--__--__--

Message: 16
Reply-To: "Carl Siechert" <carl@pct77.org>
From: "Carl Siechert" <csiechert@hotmail.com>
To: <pct-l@backcountry.net>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] 1977 Thruhike disqualified. Go back and do it again.
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 20:30:58 -0700

> Looking at the 77 Kelty Kids, it is clear that the pack lengths are too
> short. Dick had not yet added that second horizonal stay yet. The load is

Actually, one feature of these frames is that the horizontal stay to which
the shoulder straps attach can be adjusted vertically.

I'm not sure what you mean by second horizontal stay; I don't think any
Kelty pack had more than the crossbar with the shoulder-strap attachment,
the bar at the top of the pack, and (on some models) the "frame extension,"
which added another bar (the "handle" that Greg mentioned) a few inches
above the top of the packbag.

> It would be trivial to add stabilizing straps to the 77 Kelty pack. Simply
> sew the strap on the shoulder strap just before the shoulder and attach
them
> to the vertical center stays. I make this suggestion in an effort to help
> out the 77 thruhikers on their mandatory 2003 thruhike.

Much appreciated. I just might try it!


--__--__--

Message: 17
From: "Reynolds, WT" <reynolds@iLAN.com>
To: "'Carl Siechert'" <carl@pct77.org>, pct-l@backcountry.net
Subject: RE: [pct-l] 1977 Thruhike disqualified. Go back and do it again.
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 21:46:47 -0700

Well then why didn't you move the crossbar higher? Error. Try agian!

Later kelty packs, or knocvkoffs, had two horizonal stays, either one was
rigged to attach shoulder straps.

-----Original Message-----
From: Carl Siechert [mailto:csiechert@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2002 8:31 PM
To: pct-l@backcountry.net
Subject: Re: [pct-l] 1977 Thruhike disqualified. Go back and do it
again.


> Looking at the 77 Kelty Kids, it is clear that the pack lengths are too
> short. Dick had not yet added that second horizonal stay yet. The load is

Actually, one feature of these frames is that the horizontal stay to which
the shoulder straps attach can be adjusted vertically.

I'm not sure what you mean by second horizontal stay; I don't think any
Kelty pack had more than the crossbar with the shoulder-strap attachment,
the bar at the top of the pack, and (on some models) the "frame extension,"
which added another bar (the "handle" that Greg mentioned) a few inches
above the top of the packbag.

> It would be trivial to add stabilizing straps to the 77 Kelty pack. Simply
> sew the strap on the shoulder strap just before the shoulder and attach
them
> to the vertical center stays. I make this suggestion in an effort to help
> out the 77 thruhikers on their mandatory 2003 thruhike.

Much appreciated. I just might try it!

_______________________________________________
PCT-L mailing list
PCT-L@mailman.backcountry.net
http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l

--__--__--

Message: 18
From: "Ryan K. Brooks" <ryan@hack.net>
To: <at-l@backcountry.net>, <pct-l@backcountry.net>
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 08:45:45 -0500
Subject: [pct-l] hacking (admin)

I've got someone attacking the webserver, so I've temporarily taken web =
services off-line.

fyi,

R


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

--__--__--

Message: 19
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 09:02:42 -0700 (PDT)
From: Stacey Turner <sturner72@yahoo.com>
To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
Subject: [pct-l] Down Sleeping Bags


I'm planning to thru-hike the PCT in 2003 and am seeking advice on a down
sleeping bag.  I'm 5'2" and am looking at the Northface Blue Igloo and
Sierra Design Prism.  Any feedback on these two bags or suggestions on
another bag.  Since this is my first major hike I am trying to keep my gear
within the 12-14 range (I'm not ready for ultralight).

Thanks.

Stacey
sturner72@yahoo.com



---------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Sign-up for Video Highlights of 2002 FIFA World Cup

--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---


--__--__--

_______________________________________________
PCT-L mailing list
PCT-L@mailman.backcountry.net
http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l


End of PCT-L Digest