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[cdt-l] Gila route in Spring



I was waiting for someone else to respond to this, but I haven't seen
any posts... Anyway, I know some people did the main-fork Gila in the
springtime last year. I didn't hear of any major problems - in fact I
heard that they raved about it. Although, I have to say, when I was
there in the autumn, a couple of the lower crossings were thigh deep
(though the flow was slow in those cases). You may want to check with
the Gila NF for advice / info on the Gila flow & snowpack & melt
situation. I think the snowpack was relatively light in S NM last
year... but I'm not positive about that.

-Jonathan


-----Original Message-----
From: cdt-l-admin@mailman.backcountry.net
[mailto:cdt-l-admin@mailman.backcountry.net] On Behalf Of doug walsh
Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2003 12:58 AM
To: cdt-l@mailman.backcountry.net
Subject: [cdt-l] Gila route in Spring

Hello all,

Looking at the CDTA vs CDTS routes through the Gila/Black Range area.
Heading northbound, The CDTS route which follows the Gila and then the
middle or west forks of the Gila seems far more interesting to me.
Would
love to hear folks thoughts on whether the multiple stream crossing
would be
doable in normal snow year in early may.  If  not, i'm beginning to see
the
wisdom of southbounding.

skywalker






>From: cdt-l-request@mailman.backcountry.net
>Reply-To: cdt-l@mailman.backcountry.net
>To: cdt-l@mailman.backcountry.net
>Subject: CDT-L digest, Vol 1 #512 - 6 msgs
>Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2003 12:00:06 -0600
>
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>
>Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: gps? (Jonathan Ley)
>    2. Re: gps? (Jeffrey)
>    3. invite from a lurker (tim fearn)
>    4. Re: Jonathon's NM Maps (Brett)
>    5. Re: Jonathon's NM Maps (Ken Powers)
>    6. RE: gps? (Jonathan Ley)
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 1
>From: "Jonathan Ley" <jonathan@phlumf.com>
>To: Mike14k@aol.com, cdt-l@mailman.backcountry.net
>Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 05:48:48 -0000
>Subject: Re: [cdt-l] gps?
>Reply-To: cdt-l@mailman.backcountry.net
>
>I can't remember if anyone responded to this, but the TOPO USA CDs
simply
>l=
>abel the divide itself as the "continental divide trail". It's a bit
>mislea=
>ding & not too useful. Many of the trails used for CDT routes are
plotted
>o=
>n the CDs, but they're not labeled as anything (unless something major
>chan=
>ged in the 4.0 release... I have 3.0). The TOPO USA CDs are really a
neat
>p=
>roduct, but they lack the resolution needed to navigate the CDT (many
of
>th=
>e subtleties of the USGS maps are "smoothed-over" in the TOPO USA CD
set).
>=
>They may work 90% of the time, but what do you do the other 10%?
>
>Some thoughts on GPS: Unless you have dead-on waypoints every 100 ft
down
>t=
>he trail, a GPS won't keep you from getting lost.  you may know the
next
>wa=
>ypoint is "183 degrees & 1.543 miles" but how do you get to that point
>when=
>  you're standing at a confusing/obscure intersection in the woods &
>there's=
>  a big gnarly mountain in the way? If you are lost however, a GPS
might
>hel=
>p you pinpoint your location & when used in conjunction with a map
(that
>ha=
>s GPS data) you can get back on the right track.  But that can be a
>time-co=
>nsuming process & isn't practical to calculate many times a day. In
2001 I
>=
>met a few volunteers that were GPS-mapping the CDT for the CDTA... I
don't
>=
>know what became of the data... plus a couple of those I met were a bit
>los=
>t, so I'm not sure their data was accurate. Also, it'd only be the CDTA
>rou=
>te, which isn't always "the coolest" route.
>
>-Jonathan
>
>---------- Original Message -------------
>
>James,
>
>Well, still I'm in the "investigating stage" here.    I've been
spending
>so=
>me
>time with TOPO USA... at least the CD trail is on there.
>
>I'm going to look at a couple of GPS next week in Dallas at REI....
>
>But I'm comfortable with a map and altimeter/compass... so I may do
nothing
>at all.  I had hoped it might replace carrying a lot of USGS topo maps,
>but=
>  I
>just can''t see myself relying on something quite so "tweaky".....
there
>is
>some comfort in the maps-on-paper-paper-thing....
>
>But I'll let you know what I decide to do.......
>_______________________________________________
>CDT-L mailing list
>CDT-L@mailman.backcountry.net
>http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/cdt-l
>
>
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 2
>To: cdt-l@mailman.backcountry.net
>Subject: Re: [cdt-l] gps?
>From: Jeffrey <jeffreyn125@attbi.com>
>Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 11:20:46 -0800
>Reply-To: cdt-l@mailman.backcountry.net
>
>On Sat, 15 Mar 2003 05:48:48 -0000, Jonathan Ley <jonathan@phlumf.com>
>wrote:
>
> > ... The TOPO USA CDs are really a neat product, but they lack the
> > resolution needed to navigate the CDT (many of the subtleties of the
>USGS
> > maps are "smoothed-over" in the TOPO USA CD set). ...
>
>Jonathan, can you explailn a little more what you mean by
"smoothed-over"?
>Thanks.
>
>
>
>--
>Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 3
>From: "tim fearn" <timfearn@hotmail.com>
>To: CDT-L@mailman.backcountry.net
>Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 10:25:11 -0800
>Subject: [cdt-l] invite from a lurker
>Reply-To: cdt-l@mailman.backcountry.net
>
>Hi,
>I have been lurking on this list for sometime now and thought it time
to
>introduce myself.  I moved to West Yellowstone, Montana last march 18,
so
>I'm coming up on a year living here.  I really like the area, so much
>hiking, in somewhat wild country,  The only thing I miss is the forests
of
>the pacific northwest where I moved from.
>   Anyway the reason I am posting is because I wanted to put out an
>invitation to any through hikers out there. For whatever services I
might
>provide.  The CDT goes right through Old Faithful which has a small
grocery
>store but is very over priced the next stop seems to be macs inn @
island
>park in Idaho, another small store situation.  I would be willing to
put up
>hikers at my abode for a day or two so that they may do some shopping
and
>get on there way refreshed.  We have two medium sized grocery stores
here
>in
>town with an excellent selection of mainstream food, with plenty of
>restaurants and a small movie theater.
>    So it turns out there are a few places where I could pick people up
off
>the trail.  1. old faithful  2. any number of fireroads outside of the
park
>to the west 3. Targhee Pass (where hwy 20 crosses the trail the first
time.
>4. Reynolds pass  (I believe this is where the trail crosses the 87.
>    My apartment isn't huge but it is just a short walk to all the
>amenities
>of town.
>
>   and to all a good hike
>
>        Timmy "mountainchilling" Fearn
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
>http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
>
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 4
>From: "Brett" <blisterfree@isp01.net>
>To: <cdt-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
>Subject: Re: [cdt-l] Jonathon's NM Maps
>Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 15:06:08 -0500
>Reply-To: cdt-l@mailman.backcountry.net
>
>FWIW, I've compared Jonathan's mapped route in New Mexico to the CDTS
NM
>guidebook description.
>
>From the Cliff Dwellings area north to the Colorado border, the two
routes
>are virtually identical. You can use Jonathan's topo maps in lieu of
the
>small-area b&w topo and FS maps found in the guide. Which is nice,
since
>the
>Forest Service maps, in particular, wouldn't be too useful if you were
to
>have routefinding problems. It's nice to have these maps, too, since
the
>CDTS guide to northern NM (Grants to the border) contains no maps at
all.
>
>There are a handful of instances where the two routes do not quite
>coincide,
>but as I recall the CDTS route still is plot-able on the JL maps. The
>exception is south of the Gila Cliff Dwellings (specifically from
Tadpole
>Ridge on south), where the CDTS route heads east toward the Mimbres
Mtns
>and
>then south to Columbus, while Jonathan's route follows the CDTA trail
south
>to Silver City and the Bootheel.
>
>Thanks to those who steered me away from using the CDTA guidebook maps
in
>an
>attempt to plot the CDTS route. Had I known in advance how closely
>Jonathan's route adheres to the CDTS route in NM, I would have gone
with
>his
>maps from the start.
>
>With the CDTS guide, JL's maps, and pages from the DeLorme New Mexico
atlas
>for the big picture, I think most hikers would have enough info to
navigate
>the state efficiently. We'll find out in about a month!
>
>- blisterfree
>
>
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 5
>From: "Ken Powers" <kdpo@pacbell.net>
>To: <cdt-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
>Subject: Re: [cdt-l] Jonathon's NM Maps
>Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 14:55:43 -0800
>Reply-To: cdt-l@mailman.backcountry.net
>
>Blisterfree -
>
>I think you have made the right decision on maps. The only other thing
I
>would add is that you need to be able to re-route if necessary. Last
year
>we
>were kicked out of 3 National Forests because of fire danger. We would
have
>been able to use the Delorme atlas to plot our route. We didn't have
it,
>but
>carried the BLM and/or NFS maps. Basically we road walked thru/around
the
>forests north of Grants.
>
>Ken
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Brett" <blisterfree@isp01.net>
>To: <cdt-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
>Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2003 12:06 PM
>Subject: Re: [cdt-l] Jonathon's NM Maps
>
>
> > FWIW, I've compared Jonathan's mapped route in New Mexico to the
CDTS NM
> > guidebook description.
> >
> > From the Cliff Dwellings area north to the Colorado border, the two
>routes
> > are virtually identical. You can use Jonathan's topo maps in lieu of
the
> > small-area b&w topo and FS maps found in the guide. Which is nice,
since
>the
> > Forest Service maps, in particular, wouldn't be too useful if you
were
>to
> > have routefinding problems. It's nice to have these maps, too, since
the
> > CDTS guide to northern NM (Grants to the border) contains no maps at
>all.
> >
> > There are a handful of instances where the two routes do not quite
>coincide,
> > but as I recall the CDTS route still is plot-able on the JL maps.
The
> > exception is south of the Gila Cliff Dwellings (specifically from
>Tadpole
> > Ridge on south), where the CDTS route heads east toward the Mimbres
Mtns
>and
> > then south to Columbus, while Jonathan's route follows the CDTA
trail
>south
> > to Silver City and the Bootheel.
> >
> > Thanks to those who steered me away from using the CDTA guidebook
maps
>in
>an
> > attempt to plot the CDTS route. Had I known in advance how closely
> > Jonathan's route adheres to the CDTS route in NM, I would have gone
with
>his
> > maps from the start.
> >
> > With the CDTS guide, JL's maps, and pages from the DeLorme New
Mexico
>atlas
> > for the big picture, I think most hikers would have enough info to
>navigate
> > the state efficiently. We'll find out in about a month!
> >
> > - blisterfree
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > CDT-L mailing list
> > CDT-L@mailman.backcountry.net
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/cdt-l
>
>
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 6
>From: "Jonathan Ley" <jonathan@phlumf.com>
>To: <cdt-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
>Subject: RE: [cdt-l] gps?
>Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2003 00:13:15 -0800
>Reply-To: cdt-l@mailman.backcountry.net
>
>If you look at a USGS map closely, you'll notice all kinds of little
>details in the contour lines. These small details can often help you
>distinguish one hillside from another, or pinpoint your location more
>precisely. The TOPO USA CDs are "vector based", which means their maps
>are drawn from a database which contains geographic information at
>specific latitude/longitude points. For example, the database may
>indicate that a particular geographic point is "7200 feet elevation",
>has a small creek flowing through it, and is forested. The software
then
>"connects the dots" and interpolates the areas in-between the points to
>draw a map. If the points are close enough together, the resulting map
>would be identical to the USGS 7.5 minute map. But, sometimes, the
>points are not close-enough together & what looks like a smooth
hillside
>on the TOPO USA map may contain all sorts of small ripples and ridges
>that are only visible with the USGS maps.  All that said, the TOPO USA
>philosophy is a good approach, I think... it's a more versatile format
-
>it can easily be updated and re-formatted. Plus, it's easy to make
>custom maps that way (you can add or leave-out certain data). I think
>it's the future of mapping, but it's not quite "there" yet.  I'm not
>sure where the TOPO USA people got/get their source data, or how it
>was/is entered into their database. I e-mailed them about it, but only
>got back a lame "marketing fluff" response.
>
>-Jonathan
>
>-----Original Message-----
>
>On Sat, 15 Mar 2003 05:48:48 -0000, Jonathan Ley <jonathan@phlumf.com>
>wrote:
>
> > ... The TOPO USA CDs are really a neat product, but they lack the
> > resolution needed to navigate the CDT (many of the subtleties of the
>USGS
> > maps are "smoothed-over" in the TOPO USA CD set). ...
>
>Jonathan, can you explailn a little more what you mean by
>"smoothed-over"?
>Thanks.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>--__--__--
>
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>CDT-L mailing list
>CDT-L@mailman.backcountry.net
>http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/cdt-l
>
>
>End of CDT-L Digest


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