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[cdt-l] Gila route in Spring



Hello all,

Looking at the CDTA vs CDTS routes through the Gila/Black Range area.
Heading northbound, The CDTS route which follows the Gila and then the
middle or west forks of the Gila seems far more interesting to me.  Would
love to hear folks thoughts on whether the multiple stream crossing would be
doable in normal snow year in early may.  If  not, i'm beginning to see the
wisdom of southbounding.

skywalker






>From: cdt-l-request@mailman.backcountry.net
>Reply-To: cdt-l@mailman.backcountry.net
>To: cdt-l@mailman.backcountry.net
>Subject: CDT-L digest, Vol 1 #512 - 6 msgs
>Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2003 12:00:06 -0600
>
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>Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: gps? (Jonathan Ley)
>    2. Re: gps? (Jeffrey)
>    3. invite from a lurker (tim fearn)
>    4. Re: Jonathon's NM Maps (Brett)
>    5. Re: Jonathon's NM Maps (Ken Powers)
>    6. RE: gps? (Jonathan Ley)
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 1
>From: "Jonathan Ley" <jonathan@phlumf.com>
>To: Mike14k@aol.com, cdt-l@mailman.backcountry.net
>Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 05:48:48 -0000
>Subject: Re: [cdt-l] gps?
>Reply-To: cdt-l@mailman.backcountry.net
>
>I can't remember if anyone responded to this, but the TOPO USA CDs simply
>l=
>abel the divide itself as the "continental divide trail". It's a bit
>mislea=
>ding & not too useful. Many of the trails used for CDT routes are plotted
>o=
>n the CDs, but they're not labeled as anything (unless something major
>chan=
>ged in the 4.0 release... I have 3.0). The TOPO USA CDs are really a neat
>p=
>roduct, but they lack the resolution needed to navigate the CDT (many of
>th=
>e subtleties of the USGS maps are "smoothed-over" in the TOPO USA CD set).
>=
>They may work 90% of the time, but what do you do the other 10%?
>
>Some thoughts on GPS: Unless you have dead-on waypoints every 100 ft down
>t=
>he trail, a GPS won't keep you from getting lost.  you may know the next
>wa=
>ypoint is "183 degrees & 1.543 miles" but how do you get to that point
>when=
>  you're standing at a confusing/obscure intersection in the woods &
>there's=
>  a big gnarly mountain in the way? If you are lost however, a GPS might
>hel=
>p you pinpoint your location & when used in conjunction with a map (that
>ha=
>s GPS data) you can get back on the right track.  But that can be a
>time-co=
>nsuming process & isn't practical to calculate many times a day. In 2001 I
>=
>met a few volunteers that were GPS-mapping the CDT for the CDTA... I don't
>=
>know what became of the data... plus a couple of those I met were a bit
>los=
>t, so I'm not sure their data was accurate. Also, it'd only be the CDTA
>rou=
>te, which isn't always "the coolest" route.
>
>-Jonathan
>
>---------- Original Message -------------
>
>James,
>
>Well, still I'm in the "investigating stage" here.    I've been spending
>so=
>me
>time with TOPO USA... at least the CD trail is on there.
>
>I'm going to look at a couple of GPS next week in Dallas at REI....
>
>But I'm comfortable with a map and altimeter/compass... so I may do nothing
>at all.  I had hoped it might replace carrying a lot of USGS topo maps,
>but=
>  I
>just can''t see myself relying on something quite so "tweaky".....  there
>is
>some comfort in the maps-on-paper-paper-thing....
>
>But I'll let you know what I decide to do.......
>_______________________________________________
>CDT-L mailing list
>CDT-L@mailman.backcountry.net
>http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/cdt-l
>
>
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 2
>To: cdt-l@mailman.backcountry.net
>Subject: Re: [cdt-l] gps?
>From: Jeffrey <jeffreyn125@attbi.com>
>Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 11:20:46 -0800
>Reply-To: cdt-l@mailman.backcountry.net
>
>On Sat, 15 Mar 2003 05:48:48 -0000, Jonathan Ley <jonathan@phlumf.com>
>wrote:
>
> > ... The TOPO USA CDs are really a neat product, but they lack the
> > resolution needed to navigate the CDT (many of the subtleties of the
>USGS
> > maps are "smoothed-over" in the TOPO USA CD set). ...
>
>Jonathan, can you explailn a little more what you mean by "smoothed-over"?
>Thanks.
>
>
>
>--
>Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 3
>From: "tim fearn" <timfearn@hotmail.com>
>To: CDT-L@mailman.backcountry.net
>Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 10:25:11 -0800
>Subject: [cdt-l] invite from a lurker
>Reply-To: cdt-l@mailman.backcountry.net
>
>Hi,
>I have been lurking on this list for sometime now and thought it time to
>introduce myself.  I moved to West Yellowstone, Montana last march 18, so
>I'm coming up on a year living here.  I really like the area, so much
>hiking, in somewhat wild country,  The only thing I miss is the forests of
>the pacific northwest where I moved from.
>   Anyway the reason I am posting is because I wanted to put out an
>invitation to any through hikers out there. For whatever services I might
>provide.  The CDT goes right through Old Faithful which has a small grocery
>store but is very over priced the next stop seems to be macs inn @ island
>park in Idaho, another small store situation.  I would be willing to put up
>hikers at my abode for a day or two so that they may do some shopping and
>get on there way refreshed.  We have two medium sized grocery stores here
>in
>town with an excellent selection of mainstream food, with plenty of
>restaurants and a small movie theater.
>    So it turns out there are a few places where I could pick people up off
>the trail.  1. old faithful  2. any number of fireroads outside of the park
>to the west 3. Targhee Pass (where hwy 20 crosses the trail the first time.
>4. Reynolds pass  (I believe this is where the trail crosses the 87.
>    My apartment isn't huge but it is just a short walk to all the
>amenities
>of town.
>
>   and to all a good hike
>
>        Timmy "mountainchilling" Fearn
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
>http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
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>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 4
>From: "Brett" <blisterfree@isp01.net>
>To: <cdt-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
>Subject: Re: [cdt-l] Jonathon's NM Maps
>Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 15:06:08 -0500
>Reply-To: cdt-l@mailman.backcountry.net
>
>FWIW, I've compared Jonathan's mapped route in New Mexico to the CDTS NM
>guidebook description.
>
>From the Cliff Dwellings area north to the Colorado border, the two routes
>are virtually identical. You can use Jonathan's topo maps in lieu of the
>small-area b&w topo and FS maps found in the guide. Which is nice, since
>the
>Forest Service maps, in particular, wouldn't be too useful if you were to
>have routefinding problems. It's nice to have these maps, too, since the
>CDTS guide to northern NM (Grants to the border) contains no maps at all.
>
>There are a handful of instances where the two routes do not quite
>coincide,
>but as I recall the CDTS route still is plot-able on the JL maps. The
>exception is south of the Gila Cliff Dwellings (specifically from Tadpole
>Ridge on south), where the CDTS route heads east toward the Mimbres Mtns
>and
>then south to Columbus, while Jonathan's route follows the CDTA trail south
>to Silver City and the Bootheel.
>
>Thanks to those who steered me away from using the CDTA guidebook maps in
>an
>attempt to plot the CDTS route. Had I known in advance how closely
>Jonathan's route adheres to the CDTS route in NM, I would have gone with
>his
>maps from the start.
>
>With the CDTS guide, JL's maps, and pages from the DeLorme New Mexico atlas
>for the big picture, I think most hikers would have enough info to navigate
>the state efficiently. We'll find out in about a month!
>
>- blisterfree
>
>
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 5
>From: "Ken Powers" <kdpo@pacbell.net>
>To: <cdt-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
>Subject: Re: [cdt-l] Jonathon's NM Maps
>Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 14:55:43 -0800
>Reply-To: cdt-l@mailman.backcountry.net
>
>Blisterfree -
>
>I think you have made the right decision on maps. The only other thing I
>would add is that you need to be able to re-route if necessary. Last year
>we
>were kicked out of 3 National Forests because of fire danger. We would have
>been able to use the Delorme atlas to plot our route. We didn't have it,
>but
>carried the BLM and/or NFS maps. Basically we road walked thru/around the
>forests north of Grants.
>
>Ken
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Brett" <blisterfree@isp01.net>
>To: <cdt-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
>Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2003 12:06 PM
>Subject: Re: [cdt-l] Jonathon's NM Maps
>
>
> > FWIW, I've compared Jonathan's mapped route in New Mexico to the CDTS NM
> > guidebook description.
> >
> > From the Cliff Dwellings area north to the Colorado border, the two
>routes
> > are virtually identical. You can use Jonathan's topo maps in lieu of the
> > small-area b&w topo and FS maps found in the guide. Which is nice, since
>the
> > Forest Service maps, in particular, wouldn't be too useful if you were
>to
> > have routefinding problems. It's nice to have these maps, too, since the
> > CDTS guide to northern NM (Grants to the border) contains no maps at
>all.
> >
> > There are a handful of instances where the two routes do not quite
>coincide,
> > but as I recall the CDTS route still is plot-able on the JL maps. The
> > exception is south of the Gila Cliff Dwellings (specifically from
>Tadpole
> > Ridge on south), where the CDTS route heads east toward the Mimbres Mtns
>and
> > then south to Columbus, while Jonathan's route follows the CDTA trail
>south
> > to Silver City and the Bootheel.
> >
> > Thanks to those who steered me away from using the CDTA guidebook maps
>in
>an
> > attempt to plot the CDTS route. Had I known in advance how closely
> > Jonathan's route adheres to the CDTS route in NM, I would have gone with
>his
> > maps from the start.
> >
> > With the CDTS guide, JL's maps, and pages from the DeLorme New Mexico
>atlas
> > for the big picture, I think most hikers would have enough info to
>navigate
> > the state efficiently. We'll find out in about a month!
> >
> > - blisterfree
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > CDT-L mailing list
> > CDT-L@mailman.backcountry.net
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/cdt-l
>
>
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 6
>From: "Jonathan Ley" <jonathan@phlumf.com>
>To: <cdt-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
>Subject: RE: [cdt-l] gps?
>Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2003 00:13:15 -0800
>Reply-To: cdt-l@mailman.backcountry.net
>
>If you look at a USGS map closely, you'll notice all kinds of little
>details in the contour lines. These small details can often help you
>distinguish one hillside from another, or pinpoint your location more
>precisely. The TOPO USA CDs are "vector based", which means their maps
>are drawn from a database which contains geographic information at
>specific latitude/longitude points. For example, the database may
>indicate that a particular geographic point is "7200 feet elevation",
>has a small creek flowing through it, and is forested. The software then
>"connects the dots" and interpolates the areas in-between the points to
>draw a map. If the points are close enough together, the resulting map
>would be identical to the USGS 7.5 minute map. But, sometimes, the
>points are not close-enough together & what looks like a smooth hillside
>on the TOPO USA map may contain all sorts of small ripples and ridges
>that are only visible with the USGS maps.  All that said, the TOPO USA
>philosophy is a good approach, I think... it's a more versatile format -
>it can easily be updated and re-formatted. Plus, it's easy to make
>custom maps that way (you can add or leave-out certain data). I think
>it's the future of mapping, but it's not quite "there" yet.  I'm not
>sure where the TOPO USA people got/get their source data, or how it
>was/is entered into their database. I e-mailed them about it, but only
>got back a lame "marketing fluff" response.
>
>-Jonathan
>
>-----Original Message-----
>
>On Sat, 15 Mar 2003 05:48:48 -0000, Jonathan Ley <jonathan@phlumf.com>
>wrote:
>
> > ... The TOPO USA CDs are really a neat product, but they lack the
> > resolution needed to navigate the CDT (many of the subtleties of the
>USGS
> > maps are "smoothed-over" in the TOPO USA CD set). ...
>
>Jonathan, can you explailn a little more what you mean by
>"smoothed-over"?
>Thanks.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>--__--__--
>
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>CDT-L@mailman.backcountry.net
>http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/cdt-l
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>
>End of CDT-L Digest


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