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[cdt-l] re: CDT Yahoo group



Mags wrote:
>So, essentially..the Yahoo web site is the same as any
>other CDT related web site? Do I go to other web sites
>and take it as gospel? Heck no. Jon just put together
>a nice place to centralize files.

For the AT or PCT - that might be a good idea.  Kinda like the Data Book or 
the Thruhikers Companion.  But this ain't the AT and there's nobody out 
there doing a monthly - or even bi-annual check on which services still 
exist (or have been added).  The information is nearly always at least a 
year old - and can (and does) change on a daily basis.

>It is not to replace this list, I just look it as an additional resource.

Problem is, Mags, that the resource isn't attached to this list - and so 
there's little chance that many, if not most, of those those who end up 
using it will ask questions here about the "deposited" files.  And they 
therefore will not discover the errors in the information they're using 
until it's too late.  After all - John didn't ask, did he?   Nor did you, my 
friend.

In fact, one of the things that's beginning to bother me about this list is 
siimply the lack of questions and the lack of crosschecking of information.  
Somehow it's just not getting across to people that EVERY DETAIL has to be 
checked and crosschecked BY YOU - or you're gonna find yourself wondering 
where your maildrop went - or where the hell you are - or how you get to 
where you want/need to be - or where you can get a new pair of boots - or 
how you're gonna eat for the next week  - or ............... any of a 
thousand other possible little problems that can (and will) slap you upside 
the head.

On the AT and PCT a lot of people bitch and moan about how bad the Data 
books and the Companion/Handbook are  - and those are checked and rechecked 
on an annual basis.  There is no such function on the CDT - and the details 
change faster than on either or both of the other trails.  So if YOU aren't 
checking out every detail of the hike you expect to do - then YOU have no 
one to blame but yourself when things go wrong.  And they will (go wrong).  
I'm a firm believer in O'Toole's Law, which says that Murphy was an 
optimist.

What I just said there is that "deposited" files - including the ones Ginny 
and I wrote a couple years ago - are almost worse than useless because they 
mislead people into believing that someone has actually done the resarch for 
them, so they can trust the information.  If you take the information that 
John has deposited on Yahoo and use that as a "STARTING PLACE" and then 
check and crosscheck ALL the details, that's cool.  But who's gonna tell 
that to those who wander through Yahoo and stumble on the information and 
take it as gospel?  Who's even gonna tell those on cdt-l that it's not 
something they can use for anything except a general guide to what "might" 
be true, but that they have to put a lot of their own effort into making 
sure it's really usable and reliable?


>Basically, Jim, we are making a mountain out of a molehill.

Lessee here - if your maildrop (or boots - or meds - or money)  goes to the 
wrong town in the wrong state - how fast does that molehill become a 
mountain when you're on the trail - and you don't know where the hell it 
went?  If you get to a small town (and they're nearly ALL small out there) 
and the one (count'em - ONE) store in town that you needed to resupply from 
is closed - how far will you have to hitch and in which direction if you 
want to eat for the next week or so.  How much of a mountain can that be?  
We had one maildrop that didn't catch up to us for 500 miles.  Could that be 
a problem?  Betcher sweet pattootie it could - and was.

Hmmm - when we got to one town, the only store in town was closed down, one 
of the restaurants was permanently closed, the other was closed on Mondays 
(wanta guess which day we were there?), one of the Trail angels was in 
Florida for the winter and the other one had gone to "town"  for the day and 
wouldn't be back until after dark. Then we tried to hitch - for two hours.  
Finally gave it up and got back on the trail.  Made another 10 or 12 miles 
that day.  Good thing our maildrop didn't go astray cause the only thing 
open in that town was the post office and a single water faucet in someone's 
back yard.  And then we got sick on the water.


>In summary: go to the web site, get the files you
>need, be aware that as this "trail" is still a work in
>progress the info will probably somewhat  out-of-date.

You're not quite getting the idea yet.  You're judging the trail by the area 
you live in - and northern Colorado is what we dubbed Yuppyville - a town 
every couple/three days, easy hitching, some of the largest and easiest to 
get around towns on the trail, the best restaurants and supermarkets on the 
trail, gear shops in every town --- the whole banana.  It might just be 
better than the AT in that regard. But it's not even close to being typical 
of the rest of the trail.  More typical would be Wisdom, MT  or Atlantic 
City, WY.  And they're a whole different world.

I'll repeat - it ain't the AT- or the PCT (or even Kansas, Dorothy)!!!

Ask Sly about that.  <G>


>Jon will periodically post more files as he finds them
>and refer people to the site if they need a type of
>file that just so happens to be on his site. This, and

So how are you gonna explain to them why their boots went to the wrong place 
cause some of the information that's "already" on the site is just plain 
wrong?  <G>

Which brings us back to the lack of questions on cdt-l --- I said yesterday 
that some of the information is wrong --- so how come NOBODY bothered to ask 
WHAT IS IT THAT'S KNOWN TO BE WRONG???

And these days, I don't answer questions that aren't asked.  I don't have 
the time or energy to educate those who don't want the answers.


>many other fine CDT web sites, will be great
>additional resource to those planning their hikes or
>just curious about the CDT. Of course, CDT-L will
>still be a central gathering place for CDT hikers.

Hmmm - a data repository set up independently of cdt-l - with no 
visible/obvious links --- so how does that lead the casual user back to 
cdt-l?  What is there in the Yahoo site to refer them to anything that would 
give them any idea that cdt-l even exists?   Do you know how many CDT hikers 
(especially thruhikers) don't even know about cdt-l?  Or care?  <G>


>There..now we can all go back to the important things in life.. (Hiking, 
>eating, drinking a good glass of
>wine with a meal...)  :D

Good idea - I'm gonna go pick up some of the pictures from our Canadian 
trip.  And finish writing a trip report.

Have a good day,
JimMags wrote:
>So, essentially..the Yahoo web site is the same as any
>other CDT related web site? Do I go to other web sites
>and take it as gospel? Heck no. Jon just put together
>a nice place to centralize files.

For the AT or PCT - it's a good idea.  Kinda like the Data Book or the 
Thruhikers Companion.  But this ain't the AT.

>It is not to replace this list, I just look it as an
>additional resource.

Problem is, Mags, that the resource isn't attached to this list - and so 
there's little chance that most of those those who use it will ask questions 
here about the "deposited" files.  And therefore will not discover the 
errors in the information they're using until it's too late.  After all - 
John didn't ask, did he?   Nor did you, my friend.

In fact, one of the things that's beginning to bother me about this list is 
siimply the lack of questions and the lack of crosschecking of information.


>Basically, Jim, we are making a mountain out of a
>molehill.

Lessee here - if your maildrop (or boots - or meds - or money)  goes to the 
wrong town in the wrong state - how fast does that molehill become a 
mountain when youj're on the trail - and you don't know where the hell it 
went?  If you get to a small town (and they're nearly ALL small out there) 
and the one (count'em - ONE) store in town that you needed to resupply from 
is closed - how far will you have to hitch and in which direction if you 
want to eat for the next week or so.  ANd how much of a mountain can that 
be?

Hmmm - when we got to one town, the only store in town was closed down, one 
of the restaurants was permanently closed, the other was closed on Mondays 
(wanta guess which day we were there?), one of the Trail angels was in 
Florida for the winter and the other one had gone to "town"  for the day and 
wouldn't be back until after dark. Then we tried to hitch - for two hours.  
Finally gave it up and got back on the trail.  Made another 10 miles that 
day.  Good thing our maildrop didn't go astray cause the only thing open in 
that town was the post office and a single water faucet in someone's back 
yard.  And then we got sick on the water.


>In summary: go to the web site, get the files you
>need, be aware that as this "trail" is still a work in
>progress the info will probably somewhat  out-of-date.

You're not getting the idea yet.  You're judging the trail by the area you 
live in - and northern Colorado is what we dubbed Yuppyville - a town every 
couple/three days, easy hitching, some of the largest and easiest to get 
around towns on the trail, the best restaurants and super markets on the 
trail, gear shops in every town --- the whole banana.  It might just be 
better than the AT in that regard. But it's not typical of the rest of the 
trail.

I'll repeat - it ain't the AT- or the PCT (or even Kansas), Dorothy!!!

>Jon will periodically post more files as he finds them
>and refer people to the site if they need a type of
>file that just so happens to be on his site. This, and

So how are you gonna explain to them why their boots went to the wrong place 
cause some of the information that's "already" on the site is just plain 
wrong?  <G>

Which brings us back to the lack of questions on cdt-l --- I said yesterday 
that some of the information is wrong --- so how come NOBODY bothered to ask 
WHAT IS IT THAT"S KNOWN TO BE WRONG???

I don't answer questions that aren't asked anymore.


>many other fine CDT web sites, will be great
>additional resource to those planning their hikes or
>just curious about the CDT. Of course, CDT-L will
>still be a central gathering place for CDT hikers.

Hmmm - a data repository set up independently of cdt-l - with no visible 
links ---so how does that lead the casual user back to cdt-l?  What is there 
in the Yahoo site to refer them to anything that would give them any idea 
that cdt-l even exists?   Do you know how many CDT hikers don't even know 
about cdt-l?  Or care?  <G>


>There..now we can all go back to the important things
>in life.. (Hiking, eating, drinking a good glass of
>wine with a meal...)  :D

Good idea -

Have a good night,
Jim

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