RE: [at-l] Bivy sacks, again.

["Nicole Markee" <thatgirl@astrogirl.com>]

> From: Mayer, Jim [mailto:JMayer@crt.xerox.com]
> The tent is slightly more difficult to set up than just the bivy, but
> substantially easier to set up than a bivy and a tarp.

I wouldn't be using the tarp unless it's raining at meal time or I need
something to hide behind to change clothes.  If it doesn't get any use (I
stop at shelters for meals and then move on and stealth camp), I'll send it
home.

> On the other hand I have not had any problem sleeping in my Integral
> Designs Unishelter.

Coosa is a big advocate of ID stuff (I've been reading the Gear Talk site),
although she uses a Salathe.  Their stuff certainly *looks* good, but the
Unishelter (the one I'd use if I wanted an ID bivy) weighs in at 2#8 and the
OR is 1#15 with very similar features...including the long zipper and
noseeum netting.

> plenty of room to turn over or read.

A lot of people have mentioned confinement and I just want to mention that I
feel terribly confined in a mummy bag anyway.

I sleep exclusively on my stomach, and I really need to try the bivy I think
I want.  If I can't get comfy in there, it's just not going to work.  For
instance, I sleep with my elbows sticking out a bit, and they might rub on
the circumferential pole...which would be bad.  It's looking more and more
like I need to drive to Campmor in NJ and see if they've got both in stock
for me to try with my respective sleeping bags.  A road-trip for
gear...hmmmm...

> The real advantage of the bivy comes when "stealth" camping.  To use my
> bivy all I have to do is find a piece of reasonably flat ground big
> enough to lie down in.  In my experience so far it is much, much harder
> to find a decent tent site.  At least in North Central PA where I've
> done most of my hiking there just aren't that many big open patches.

I've had the same experience in VA and WV and this is 90% of my interest in
bivies.  Stealth and appropriateness of site are really two reasons, I
guess.  I could have camped in a spectacularly nice and private spot on
Saturday if I'd had a bivy with bug protection.  Waking up someplace like
that is a large part of the reason that I hike.

I can only rarely find all these things together:

Flatness
Nice surroundings
Soft enough/Relatively rock free ground to stake my tent on

It's not that I like to sleep on gravel, it's that there are so many rocks
just under the surface.  I hate to say it, but I would probably be happier
with titanium tent stakes.  My aluminum ones are getting all bent up.  Gosh,
I'm getting really loony about this weight thing.  ;)  I swear it's because
they are stronger.  Honest.

> The other option that looks like it will work really well for "stealth"
> camping is to carry just a tarp and a head net to keep the bugs off.  I
> haven't tried this enough to endorse it, but my experiences so far have
> been promising.

I think I'd be more comfortable with a bivy with multiple "settings".
Besides, I love my down bag, so I really need to stay as dry as possible.

Here's another thing that will mark me as a loony:  I've successfully used a
polar fleece bag as a summer sleeping bag.  Everyone else that has tried
them seems to be unhappy/cold with them.  I've been pleased as punch with
mine, and I've been sleeping naked or near so in the thing down to 50'.
That said, I'm not using a liner thingy -- it's a real bag with light nylon
wall and fleece on the inside.

It's September now though, and I don't imagine that I'll get away with it
much longer.

> worried about cold, although I did carry a windbreaker and fleece along
> with the poncho.

I always carry a windbreaker and wool sweater or fleece.  I get freezing
cold after I stop hiking and start to dry off, even in the summer.  Also,
above 3000' feet, it's cold in the morning, and I use my warmer stuff to get
through breakfast too.

> The only "bug" problem I had was with slugs... they
> leave slime trails on your sleeping bag and smell really, really, bad if
> you don't pick all of them off the ground cloth before folding it up.

I've never had any trouble with slugs while camping.  Our yard at home on
the other hand...

> Most of the time, though, I might as well walk
> after dinner (the after dinner conversation is a bit limited on solo
> trips) and, besides, that's really why I'm out there.

I function best on your type of schedule.  I can feel like I'm dead to the
world at five, but once I stop for a boot-off break and food, I could put in
a few more miles.  My work day even goes that way when I'm allowed to work
at home and keep my own schedule:  put in four hours in the morning, long
lunch, two hours in the afternoon, dinner, assorted other tasks, two more
hours of work at night.

I like the idea of carrying a little house on my back (tent), but the last
couple of trips, the tent has really left me cold.  Here's how the weights
add up:

Tent, stakes, fly, poles, stuffed:  3#10
Space Blanket				0#4
Pack Cover					0#5
Current Nylon Cord. 50ft		0#6

Total: 4#9


Bivy with poles, netting, stuffed:	1#15
Lightweight Tarp (ID makes one)	0#8
New Kelty cord, 50ft			0#1
Two titanium pegs				0#1
Pack Cover					0#5

Total:  2#14


Can y'all at least see why this looks like a good idea to me?  I just can't
figure out how to test it without making a large investment.  :(  There's
*no* way to know if this will work for me without trying it in the field.

-Nicole

=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=
Nicole Markee
MCI Internet Engineering
Vnet 272-7250
nmarkee@mci.net


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