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[at-l] thruhiking lists
Snodrog wrote:
>OK, I'll bite... what makes a list a "true" thru-hiking list?
>TJ
TJ, Eric, et al -
Mike and Ron nailed down a good part of the answer to your question,
and I thank them for that because now I don't have to get into
that part of it. But now I'll drop the other shoe.
By definition a thruhiking list is one where there are thruhikers - both
past and future - and where some significant part of the "conversation"
is about thruhiking and thruhiking concerns. This does not by any means
exclude day hikers, section hikers, camp followers, dog lovers (with or
without beans and rope), ferret keepers, parapackers or anyone else.
Fact is that anyone who hikes can learn from the thruhiking stuff - and
vice versa. But thruhiking concerns ARE different from dayhiking
concerns. As just one example, a day hiker doesn't have to deal with
the physical, mental and emotional demands that are placed on a
thruhiker.
There was a time (about 2 years ago) when at-l was a thruhiking list -
with a generous mix of nonsense, backpacking, dayhiking -- a whole range
of interests and a lot of camaraderie. When atml came online, it was
headed in the same direction, although with a somewhat different
flavor/character.
But that changed when at98 came on line. The class of 98 withdrew into
at98 - and experienced thruhikers weren't welcome. It drew the
prospective thruhikers - and the excitement that they bring with them -
off the other lists. So at-l and atml were no longer thruhiking lists
because they had lost their raison d'etre - the new thruhikers. And
they lost most of the "thruhiking" conversation. The lifeblood of an
email list is ALWAYS new people. If there's no infusion of "new blood"
then the list will eventually stagnate -- and suppurate. The "C-word
thingy" war on atml last fall was a good example. There were no
prospective thruhikers on the list to be excited about, so the list made
it's own excitement -- a giant economy-size flame war. And since the
at98 folk didn't want to get involved in that kind of crap (can you
blame them?)they became even more isolated. AT98 became a cocoon - and
an isolation ward.
So what about at98 - wasn't that a thruhiking list? Not at all.
There were maybe 4 or 5 former thruhikers on at98 who were going to hike
again in 98. And they didn't do a lot in terms of educating their
classmates. There were a few people who were still on at-l and atml,
but their interaction was limited - and the knowledge they took back to
at98 was VERY limited. I was there - and I know how little real
information there was on either list. And the at98ers weren't asking
questions of the people who had the answrs. So there were a lot of
people who sat in their at98 cocoon waiting for these few people to
bring them bits and pieces of knowledge. I'm not sure where the
breakdown in understanding came - but somehow a lot of them never seemed
to realize that depending on someone else to feed you knowledge means
that you'll get the knowledge that applies to (fits) those who are
feeding you. And that it may be incomplete or irrelevant to your
needs.
So -- at98 wasn't a thruhiking list because it didn't have the exchange
of knowledge that would have exposed the at98ers to thruhiking
attitudes, culture, ethics, history or ideas - or to the basics of how
the Trail and thruhiking really work and what it's really about. They
didn't need a "playground" - they needed a "school". But what they got
was internally group-generated positive excitement feedback. As a group,
they're probably the most excited group of thruhikers I've ever seen.
And that excitement might get them to Neels Gap, or maybe even to Hot
Springs, but then, even my ex got that far. But it's not what'll get
them to Katahdin. Yeah, I know about excitement as a motivator - for 15
years I worked a business where excitement is a tool - and I know just
how ephemeral it is - and how useless it is unless backed up by real,
hardcore knowledge.
This should have been the most highly educated and motivated - and
best equipped - class in AT history. There were not just one, but
two email lists just full of experienced thruhikers willing to
share their knowledge and experiences. And at98 got little of it.
In Wingfoot's words:
> I am especially pleased with this project. It shows
> how members of the AT long-distance hiking community
> (in this case women) can work together, using internet
> mailing lists and other capabilities, to produce info
> that will help future hikers. That's the underlying
> reason for Trailplace, ATML, AT-L, AT98, AT99 and the
> other things we are doing.
I agree completely that one of the purposes of the lists is to produce
information that will help future thruhikers. And that's what we started
doing on at-l almost 3 years ago. But they can't get information
from a list that's isolated from the rest of the thruhiker community,
so AT98 failed - it wasn't a lot of help to the class of 98. Except for
those who were savvy enough to pursue the information for themselves in
other places, it kept many of them in ignorance. You can't learn from
those who don't know. And that's precisely what at98 offered them -
others who knew as little as they did about what they were intending to
do - and isolation from those who could have helped them. Some of them
will learn what they need on the Trail. Unfortunately, a lot of them
will learn too late.
For me, the bottom line is that at98 was something that looked
like a good idea at the time, but failed because it didn't take
human nature into account. The question now is not what will
happen to the at98 hikers? They're on their own now, and they'll
have to deal with what they've got - and what they haven't got.
The real question is whether Wingfoot has learned enough to NOT start an
at99 list. There's no blame in making a mistake - we all do that. But
if we don't learn from our mistakes -- well, that's another story.
Enuff - I don't have time for this - and I've already got a severe
case of hoof-in-mouth disease. Y'all have a good weekend.
Walk softly,
Jim
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