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[at-l] why at-l and atm-l
Ryan said, "If it makes more sense, I will take down AT-L"
PLEASE PLEASE DON'T! We have been on the list for about 2 1/2 years,
and have watched its evolutions over time, and have always enjoyed it.
The discussions are sometimes utterly absurd, but occasionally we rise
above the trivial to discuss issues truly worth thought and discussion.
There are a people on the lists I have come to care about, even though
we may have never met. There are many whose ideas and philosophies I
enjoy reading. Although there is duplication, there are also differences
in the lists, that vary over time. As people come and go, so the flavors
of the lists changes. There is room for both. Especially since
dropping AT-L would mean that a lot of us would be cut off completely
from the community.
Jim and I used to be on Wingfoot's list nd enjoyed having twice as much
trail discussion for a long time -- until I decided I couldn't handle
the contentiousness any longer during one of the more interminable
flamewars. I still miss the people that were on that list who are not
on AT-l, but I really don't miss the level of anger I saw there. We
have had a few flamewars on AT-l, but they don't even come close to the
ATM-L flame wars. Generally the AT-L arguments fizzle out after a few
hours, never more than a day, and usually are started by those who are
new to the list who don't understand the difference between an e-mail
list and a rec.backcountry type forum.
After Christmas, I stopped being upset, and hoped that the wars were
finally over, and I decided I missed the people on ATM-L enough that we
tried to resubscribe. It became obvious by the fourth try that we had
been permanently banned in absentia. We have tried several times to
establish contact with Wingfoot privately, and have been totally
ignored. From what we have heard, we are not the only ones who have been
banned from the discussions, either for involvement in the flame wars,
or for expressing opinions that Wingfoot disagreed with.
Despite, or because of, the lack of obvious control on AT-L, it is
really a much friendlier place than ATM-L. Occasionally you have to
remind people to "play nice" and they always do. I am not afraid to put
out ideas or thoughts or opinions here - and that was not always true
for ATM-L. There is a reason there are so many lists on Trailplace, and
one of them is that some people don't feel "safe" to express themselves
on the main list. That's one reason the women's list and the AT'98
listers rarely post on the open list.
Bottom line - you do a real service to the community. The AT-L is still
unique and a very good place to spend time. Please don't even think
about closing it down.
Ginny Owen
PS - however, it would be very nice if people would pay attention to
where the messages come from when they respond. There has been a
carryover from one of the flamewars on ATM_L that keeps getting
responded to here. We don't know the references, and don't really want
the wars carried over here.
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