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[at-l] Re: Time to face FAQs?
At 1:14 PM -0500 1/23/98, Robert and Catherine Rubin wrote:
>Someone mentioned that there's no need for an AT-L FAQ when Wingfoot's page
>is so comprehensive. I guess I disagree.
I agree with Rubin as explained in my personal opinion below:
>
>First, that assumes that WF's site will always be available.
While possibly true looking very long term, at-1 I expect will remain while
WF will eventually transition his role. Hopefully that will be a very long
time; however, so
I see little concern near team and hopefully trailplace.com or its successor
will continue to provide many happiness and lessons learned from thru-hikers.
Actually, the same FAQs can be posted on as many sites as one wants to
send them. Do I mind duplicates on the web. Nope. So I think AT-L should
have a FAQ as a sustaining organization and not rely on a "one man" show with
volunteers. But the more the merrier. I think the comment can be
expanded to sustainability. I am sure the volunteers will do their best
maintaining trailplace when WF thanks another hike. But it's life.
>
>Second, his site is hard to use unless you've got really fast browsers and
>connections, and you can't just download a FAQ file and read it at your
>leisure--you have to go page to page, question to question. It's well
>organized, but I find it hard to use. I like a good FAQ file I can download
>and pick through offline.
I expect this to be short term problem. However with a basic issue such
as faq a site administrator could make a txt or low speed modem interface;
however,
since 28.1 K modems are very cheap nowadays and getting cheaper as 56K is
becoming the standard. I would suggest the internet user upgrade to
at least 28.1K. The WF site is very large, true, but holds much of value.
Maybe some other white blazes on your monitor screen could help navigate
his site. <gr> I would suggest, the faq html page url be saved as a
bookmark or favorite site, that way you can go right to your favorite
places without navigating a site... take the blue trail :)
>
>Third, it's Wingfoot's. Things posted on Trailplace "belong" to the AT
>Center, and appear on the Web page under his copyright rubrics.
WF has given his explanation of what he thinks a copyright is. I would
suggest on his site he POST his meaning of copyright.
I doubt the average lay person thinks a "company's" posting
on trailplace.com stipulates on its front page: copyright, worldwide
rights reserved
means that the site has not reserved all its rights or has some other
interpretation of what those words mean. ( NOTE: I am not a lawyer ). On many
sites, once posted, the site posted to gains freedom to use the material as
their material.
Any lawyers out there? If someone posts something on a "copyrighted", what
does copyright mean?
Actually, if one really uses WF analogy, since the extraction of forum comments
is welcomed by others what has happened is words are taken out of context
and reissued. Worse, the extractions ( while not done on purpose )
inadvertantly
used someone else's words in the thread as coming from another. I would just
suggest care in any extractions. And what is a copywrited forum with all
rights reserved? By a forums very nature, any continuing thread reissues
the prior owner's material. That's just a thought? By the way, this
material might be the owner's? But who is the owner? Hmmm?
>
>Fourth, Wingfoot is controversial--he's a FAQ subject himself, which seems
>to bother him.
Yes I agree from different views.
He has an agenda, and a very specific vision for the AT.
I think he does and yes he defends his position. One must simply remember
each person is looking through their own life's viewscreen. Sometimes
one's eyes are clouded.
Not everybody agrees with him, and he doesn't appear to like it when you argue
>about his vision on his home court.
WF reply was: I do have one rule that is primary ... that no one can use
Trailplace or its lists to direct personal attacks against the character or
motives of another user or subscriber.
Unfortunately, I do not believe the "tolerance" suggested by WF has been
demonstrated.
While the following exchange happended on the trailplace.com forum, the
thru-hiker
was providing his opinion. I will simply place the entire WF msg
( Note, I have removed the senders name as they had just introduced themselves
and where explaining there reasons for disagreements in several areas.
I had sent this to WF but never received a reply, as a matter of fact, what
happened was even more interesting ! Once I sent this off-line to WF,
and I can only can guess at the coincidence, I have not recieved any more
atml digests? Hmmm... makes my viewscreen seem clouded.
The person was an experienced thru-hiker introducting themselves and
giving their views.
What happened was the person was expelled from atml and the statements
below are fully contained with only the name of the atml sender
-----
WF, I hope you were joking? (name deleted) gave some good insight and
has his views looked well written.
Looks like he has lots of outdoor experience.
Did you really throw him off the list??
See ( name deleted ) response to me off-line. -tom
-----------------------------
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 18:09:19 -0500
From: Name deleted
To: Tom Caggiano <hikenet@interactive.net>
Subject: Re: ATML Intro and Answers
Hi Tom
Glad that you enjoied the intro. Unfortunatly you won't be hearing from me any
more on the ATML - wingfoot didn't like the intro and tossed me off of the
list.
-------
At 5:07 PM -0500 12/28/97, ATML wrote:
>ATML--A place to discuss AT issues with friends in friendship!
>
>At 04:25 PM 12/28/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Concerning gear that I carried, my list was pretty
>basic. Notably absent from my gear list was: 1. a cell phone,
>2. a wingfoot book, 3. a firearm. Those were my choices.
>>It is my personal opinion that all three are a detriment to
>the trail.
>
>Since Bob feels this way, I'm sure he feels that Trailplace
>and this list are a detriment to the Trail scene just as well.
>So, ( name deleted ) is no longer with us. Even though he doesn't carry a
>firearm, he shot himself in the foot anyway!--WF
The unidentified person was not saying Trailplace was a detriment but
had views on the thru-hikers handbook. Trailplace.com as the site owner
allowed the "free speech" to continue by dropping (unnamed) from the list.
--------
I came to (unnamed's defense off-line; however, I have not recieved any
response
from WF to the following, and I guess also joined the list of the
unwated at trailplace.com
Here is the full e-mail:
At 5:07 PM -0500 12/28/97, ATML wrote:
>Concerning gear that I carried, my list was pretty
>basic. Notably absent from my gear list was: 1. a cell phone,
>2. a wingfoot book, 3. a firearm. Those were my choices.
>>It is my personal opinion that all three are a detriment to
>the trail.
>
>Since Bob feels this way, I'm sure he feels that Trailplace
>and this list are a detriment to the Trail scene just as well.
>So, Bob is no longer with us. Even though he doesn't carry a
>firearm, he shot himself in the foot anyway!--WF
>
WF: I think the next sentence by (deleted), put his context on the
sentence you reference. Sometimes "cutting and pasting" can
give an out of context meaning. To quote Bob a little further:
"Those were my choices. Other folks opted to carry one or all of the above
- and that was THEIR hike."
BTY:
My choices are:
a. Cell Phone - Yes ( only in backpack for emergency use ). The little item
takes a big weight off my wife's shoulders at home.
b. Wingfoot Book - Yes but I rip it apart ( ultralight? ) and put the sections
I need in the mail drop for that next section.
( Side note: Page 126 97 ver, might have to be updated in
99 ver as in NJ were are reducing one mile from the AT
distance.
http://members.aol.com/visitnj/visitnjreroute.html )
c. Gun - No
In life as on the trail, how one sees the wilderness, their physical and
mental atributes, love and support of friends and oneself, responsiblity to
family, etc, etc. are all individual view screens through which we see
this changing world around us. Enjoy its many splendors and its people.
For the new year, Love and Peace... at least a thought and a goal.
See ya's on the trail.
Tom 'hikenet' Caggiano
PS: Had some time during the holiday to finally post some photos of
the New Jersey Appalachian Trail shelters and put in some "NJ AT slides shows".
More are coming, as they say, as working on the winter hiking now that snow has
arrived. Off on the trail again tonight.. see ya.. be well. Happy New Year..
For those who already have passed this way, perhaps they will bring back some
fond memories.
NJ Appalachian Trail http://members.aol.com/visitnj
-----
Everybody is equal there, but some are
>more equal than others, to coin a phrase. On ATML he's been known to
>condemn and censor stuff he doesn't think appropriate and doesn't agree
>with--and people he doesn't want to hear from. It's his perogative,
>certainly, but it's at odds with the "no rules" ethic a lot of us like
>about the Net. I'll be my own conscience, thank you, and if that means he
>won't let me play with his toys, well, okay, I can live with it.
I agree with the above. Although I think being one of the "removed" is
an interesting tag. Perhaps "toymaker" is an indelicate choice of words.
But being a boppee of sorts... I guess I can understand the statement.
>
>Finally, I value and respect Wingfoot's contribution to the Trail.
I concur.
He's
>been helpful to me personally, and I'm grateful for it. His book is the
>best one out there precisely because it is idiosyncratic rather than
>institutional; he has a lot of integrity and a compelling vision for the
>AT. Trailplace is a great idea, and a great resource. But it shouldn't be
>the *only* resource, and I don't want C.A.T.S. to become the Microsoft of
>the AT World, with WF its Bill Gates. This list, for now, is a more open
>place to discuss the AT online, and its collective wisdom deserves respect
>too.
I agree. I also believe that people can contribute to one or more forums,
and that people can list their ideas on different sites. If things are
duplicated somewhere, so be it. An unknowing surfer might be able to find
the material in more than one place, so be it. The more the merrier. Join
whatever forum you wish, or are allowed.
>
>Why not an AT-L FAQ? Why not re-post it here from time to time. I'll help.
>
>
>
>
>--Rhymin' Worm
>
>(Robert Rubin) GA>ME '97 -- RHYMWORM@MINDSPRING.COM
>Newsletter Editor, Piedmont Appalachian Trail Hikers (PATH)
>
>
Have a nice day everyone, please contribute your ideas to all or any
forum you wish ( or can ). The more the merrier.
Be well, see ya on the trail, Tom http://members.aol.com/hikenet
PS> Just returned from hike where AT and Long Trail Split ( Pico Vt).
The lower portion was clear but once one got up the blowdowns made trail
impassable after the split on the AT. Went up the blue trail to outlook.
Trail is buried by huge blowdowns, trees 10 inch dia are broken. A mess.
Please contribute to your local maintaining organization or help them.
The AT needs our help. We all thank you.
(
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