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[at-l] atml V1 #163
>From: owner-atml@trailplace.com
>Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 23:50:09 -0600 (MDT)
>To: atml-digest@trailplace.com
>Subject: atml V1 #163
>Precedence: bulk
>
>
>atml Thursday, 24 April 1997 Volume 01 : Number 1=
63
>
>In this issue:
>
> Re: To Wingfoot
> Re: What is a Thru-hike?
> Re: What is a Thru-hike?
> Re: Terminology & an equipment question
> Fwd: Shoes or Boots for Bad Feet?
> Re: Waldo's dilemma
> Ibugroovin'
> Thru-hiker
> ankles (was Re: Waldo's dilemma)
> thru hiking
> Re: What is a Thru-hike?
> re: I'll tell you what a purist is
> Transcribing Journals to Email
> Re: Definition
> Re: ankles (was Re: Waldo's dilemma)
> Journal Ownership
> Gear questions...
> RE: Fundamentalism
> no more digests...
> Re: Thru-hiking
> Re: thru hiking
> Re: To Wingfoot
> The Fear Of Being Bounced
> Re: The Fear Of Being Bounced
> JOURNAL UPDATES (4/25/97)
> Re: To Wingfoot
> Re: What is a Thru-hike?
> Re: Fundamentalism
> Re: To Wingfoot
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>From: "Vince Caplan" <vcap@hotmail.com>
>Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 03:18:27 PDT
>Subject: Re: To Wingfoot
>
>Cheryl Bigelow <hikers@javanet.com> wrote:
>> Your email to Rosie should have been done directly to her. If
>> you're going to hassle someone about their opinion, do it
>> privately. Don't air your dirty laundry in public. I feel
>> that everyone's entitled to their own opinion. If you don't
>> agree with someone's opinion, just drop it. Why do you feel
>> the need to put someone down publicly because you don't
>> agree with how they feel about something?
>
>I disagree, obviously. I do not see such posts as simply
>"feelings" about something, but a castigation (sometimes subtle, sometimes
>not)
>of all hikers who do not share such beliefs, who did not hike far enough, w=
ho
>did not hike the "right" way. So I have to speak up in public about it. T=
his
>attitude of elitism is insidious in the AT community -- I've seen too many
>people "apologize" because they're not as fast, not going as far, haven't g=
one
>as far. In my opinion it's totally contrary to the spirituality that the
>Trail
>is really all about.
>
>Vince
>
>
>
>
>- ---------------------------------------------------------
>Get Your *Web-Based* Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>- ---------------------------------------------------------
>
>------------------------------
>
>From: molenaar@strategy.com (Molenaar, Rachel)
>Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 08:55:31 -0400
>Subject: Re: What is a Thru-hike?
>
>Gene wrote:
>>I always love to hear your opinions and insights. I guess some folks
>don't
>>realize opinions are just that...opinions, not GOSPEL.
>
>Rosie wrote:
>> Let's not make this great adventure of thru-hiking the Appalachian
>> Trail into a mediocre effort that let's everyone succeed no matter
>> what. I guess I'm selfish but I don't want my efforts and
>> accomplishment diminished and in some cases, cheapened, by a lesser
>> definition of completion of the task and a lowering of a certain
>standard.
>
>Gene, this may be Rosie's opinion, but it certainly is a discouraging,
>unfriendly one. In reality, this is much closer to a directive than an
>opinion--"Don't you slackpackers/blueblazers/yellowblazers/etc. dare give
>yourself a title equal to mine." Rosie, you will always know what you
>have done. What does it matter if someone else uses the same word to
>describe their experience?
>
>I for one was very happy to see Vince's comments--he exactly articulated
>the misgivings I felt when I read Rosie's post. I am not a thru-hiker,
>but I do go out on weekends whenever life permits. Please don't tell me
>that if I "really wanted to" I could go on a thru-hike immediately. (At
>least, not unless you're offering to take over my student loans for a
>summer!) What has been most encouraging is the general friendliness and
>acceptive attitude of every person I've ever met while out on the trail.
> Should I be more impressed by the thru-hiker who has returned to do a
>huge section of the trail in less than a week? Or by the out-of-shape
>college student who gamely plugs along, a full 2 hours behind his more
>experience friends? Or by the 70-year-old man who has returned to the
>trail to finish what he couldn't a year ago? Or by the woman who has not
>completed the trail, but has biked from coast to coast? Or what about
>the fellow I heard about who walked the whole trail, twice, in a single
>season?
>
>Or maybe I should just stop worrying about being impressed, and enjoy the
>stories, the moments, and the companionship.
>
>$0.02
>=3Drachel emily=3D
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>From: "Diana ^(raven)^" <raven@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu>
>Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 10:08:23 -0400
>Subject: Re: What is a Thru-hike?
>
><rosie's post snipped>
>
>> That's great Maine Rose. Go easy on the ego and self importance a bit,
>>and your word will carry more weight. Just a friendly tip...
>
>I'm not picking Chris out individually here, but he was the last to do
>it, so:
>
>Can you please NOT quote an ENTIRE article to add 2 lines of text?
>Please?
>
>Nit-pickily yours,
>Diana
>
>- --
>Diana ^(raven)^ * raven@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu
>http://www.geckoworld.com/~raven
>The Appalachian Trail 1998 * Georgia -> Maine
>glittery-goth-hiking-phreeks
>
>------------------------------
>
>From: "Diana ^(raven)^" <raven@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu>
>Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 10:15:10 -0400
>Subject: Re: Terminology & an equipment question
>
>James Bullard wrote:
>
>> Here's the question ---- I was looking at an MSR Dromedary Bag at my
>> friendly local outfitter's. The owner tells me that the older ones had a
>> lining that made the water taste funny. He says MSR has changed the linin=
g
>> material on the new ones but he hasn't used one since the change and can'=
t
>> vouch for whether it affects the taste of the water. Has anyone out there
>> had experience with the Dromedary?
>
>I had the originial dromedary with the bad liner. When I drank from it,
>my mouth and throat would burn like i had just taken a swig off of a
>test tube in chemistry class. :P YUCK!
>
>The older ones (with brass grommets) were replaced by MSR at no charge,
>and I have the new ones (black grommets) which have been used with no
>ill effects.
>
>- --
>Diana ^(raven)^ * raven@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu
>http://www.geckoworld.com/~raven
>The Appalachian Trail 1998 * Georgia -> Maine
>glittery-goth-hiking-phreeks
>
>------------------------------
>
>From: JDForbes7@aol.com
>Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 11:07:36 -0400 (EDT)
>Subject: Fwd: Shoes or Boots for Bad Feet?
>
><< Waldo L. Jaquith wrote:
>
> > So, Fair ATMLers, I need your advice. Do I wear the Asolos, the Nikes,
> > sandals, or some whole other sort of footwear? I don't want to make th=
is
> > a four-part hike, I'd like to be finished this August. It's aaaaalllll
>you. >>
>
> Waldo, I'd have to agree with a lot of responses I've read. Sounds like
>weight reduction would be the biggest factor. I know from my hike, I've go=
t
>thin legs and ankles and thin feet and the difference between 50 lbs. and
>about 38-40 (not to mention 65!) is tremendous; makes all the difference in
>the world.
>
>FreeMan
>- ---------------------
>Forwarded message:
>From: raven@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu (Diana ^(raven)^)
>Sender: owner-atml@trailplace.com
>Reply-to: raven@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu
>To: atml@trailplace.com (atml)
>Date: 97-04-15 22:53:09 EDT
>
>Waldo L. Jaquith wrote:
>
>> So, Fair ATMLers, I need your advice. Do I wear the Asolos, the Nikes,
>> sandals, or some whole other sort of footwear? I don't want to make thi=
s
>> a four-part hike, I'd like to be finished this August. It's aaaaalllll
>you.
>
>Hmmmm. I'd have to go with the Asolos. The heavier soles will probably
>protect your feet from the constant pounding more than sandals or
>sneakers and last alot longer to boot (ha! no pun intended!)
>
>But I'd also blame part of the problem on what you were carrying. I went
>back and re-read your journals. Now, lets start off by establishing that
>you are not a huge person; you are pretty tall and thin. But at the same
>time, you were carrying a HUGE pack! I think if you can get your pack
>weight down from 65# to somewhere along the lines of 35-40#, you'll be a
>much happier camper (no pun intended - what is with me?!).
>
>Did you use Lekis or any kind of hiking staff? That may help as well to
>take some of the stress and shock off of your knees and feet.
>
>Hope this was helpful! See ya at trail days!
>
>- --
>Diana ^(raven)^ * raven@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu
>http://www.geckoworld.com/~raven
>The Appalachian Trail 1998 * Georgia -> Maine
>glittery-goth-hiking-phreeks
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>From: JDForbes7@aol.com
>Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 11:17:57 -0400 (EDT)
>Subject: Re: Waldo's dilemma
>
>In a message dated 97-04-16 07:27:19 EDT, HITTRAIL@aol.com writes:
>
><< I don't agree with our Norwegian friend ( I was in your beautiful countr=
y
> many years ago when I had a three year stint living in Helsinki and zipped
>up
> to Hammerfest). Although the AT is well blazed and wonderfully maintained =
by
> the dedicated folks in the hiking clubs, there are a myriad of opportuniti=
es
> to twist an ankle, break a leg, etc. This can happen just tripping over a
> root in Maine let alone when dealing with the rocks of PA and NH. Just
> thinking of the descent from Madison to Pinkham Notch are several thousand
> reminders of potential danger. >>
>
>
> I agree with Rose, I think the ankle danger is very real. It is
>dependent to a fair degree on the ankles you already have, though. For me,
>I've got very thin ankles, I definitely need strong support there. Also, n=
ot
>to get to technical, but the most recent well-done orthopedic study on
>sprained ankles concluded that good ankle support (or lack thereof) was the
>number one predictor of sprains. I know there were multiple times on the
>trail when my ankle did a 'side-snap' due to hitting a rock the wrong way.
> If I'd been in tenni-pumps my ankle would have been a goner, especially wi=
th
>all the extra weight. However, for people with big thick ankles and no pri=
or
>injury, sneakers are probably a viable option; wish they were for me!
>
>FreeMan
>
>------------------------------
>
>From: JDForbes7@aol.com
>Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 11:42:48 -0400 (EDT)
>Subject: Ibugroovin'
>
>Bravo on Jim's discussion on painkillers. I agree totally, well-said.
>
>FreeMan
>
>------------------------------
>
>From: John Lange <yoho2@sprynet.com>
>Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 13:33:02 -0400
>Subject: Thru-hiker
>
>What=EDs so confusing about this whole discussion is, it seems so very
>important to everyone to be able to use the title thru-hiker, yet they
>want the meaning to be totally ambiguous. Doesn=EDt that in a sense make
>the title meaningless? Why use it? It=EDs a thru-hike, no it=EDs a desser=
t
>topping, no it=EDs a floor wax.
>
>Call me old fashioned but I think words have meanings and an apple isn't
>an orange just because it wants to be. This reasoning that "thru-hike"
>can't have "that" particular meaning because at this stage of my life
>it's impossible to live up to, escapes me. So it's suddenly going to
>change meaning again when you can?
>
>Rosie, I guess you're just gona have to come up with another word to
>describe your experience and accomplishment. But from what I'm reading
>I get the feeling it wouldn't be long before all the wanabee's start
>using your new word to describe themselves and calling you hurtful and
>hateful when you protest.
>
>I'm sure those protesting Roise's definition have other titles in their
>lives that are important to them and wouldn't want watered down. Any
>PHD's out there who wouldn't mind someone using that title even though
>they never attended college? But is this whole argument that there
>shouldn't be any titles in regard to the AT experience? I could
>certainly respect that but that's not what I'm hearing. Everyone still
>wants the "title" but just don't have the nerve to define it so it's the
>least bit tough to attain.
>
>BTW: If Rosie's definition is so evil why has no one protested that
>we're only following the journal entries of those in the midst of the
>same experience as Rosie? (other than Waldo but he's on his own web
>page)
>
>- - John Lange
>
>------------------------------
>
>From: David Appell <appell@together.net>
>Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 12:55:46 -0400
>Subject: ankles (was Re: Waldo's dilemma)
>
>Speaking of ankles, I'd appreciate any advice or insights on my own
>ankle problem.
>
>Last year, after about Damascus, I noticed a little pain deep in my
>ankle whenever my boot bounced up off a rock. Just after Chestnut Knob
>Shelter it began to hurt all the time, and has never been the same
>since. It's difficult to describe -- there was pain inside my ankle,
>near the exact center as far as I could tell. There was never any
>detectable swelling or physical difference from the other ankle. The
>pain was a sort of "hum" -- an awareness that something was wrong there.
>
>I had an x-ray at Pearisburg, which was negative. They diagnosed it as
>a pulled ligament, which I know now mustn't have been correct. I kept
>going and it was a big problem, physically as well as
>mentally, especially after the PA rocks. I took 2400 mg IBP per day and
>soaked it in cold streams whenever I could, but by CT I could no longer
>comfortably lace my boot. By Mass the ankle and a muscle strain in my
>back took us off the trail, and by the time my back healed (5-7 days) my
>ankle was unchanged and I just had had enough of the pain and of the
>worry I was permanently damaging it.
>
>My ankle still hurts, as much as when I got off the Trail. Two more
>x-rays, one by an orthopaedist and one by a sports medicine
>orthopaedists, have both been negative, even for stress fractures. But
>the pain continues and is, as I wrote, as bad as it was, after almost 9
>months of nonexertion (which is driving me crazy). There is still a
>deep soreness inside the ankle, usually worse at night, and sometimes a
>nervy-kind of burning pain inside my ankle and across the top of my
>foot. There's a little tightness and loss of flexibility but not a lot.
> The 2nd doctor (sports medicine) diagnosed the problem as
>"inflammation," and said that because of the prolonged stress I
>subjected my ankle to it could be many many months until it heals. The
>chronic pain bothers me a lot, as does the fact that it's not getting
>better, which is already has curtailed my day hiking and has stopped me
>from thinking about completing my thru-hike this summer.
>
>Potentially relevant details: I wore Asolo 555s (or their equivalent)
>the entire 1,500 miles, used Leki poles from Neels Gap on, and started
>with a 43 lb pack. I started the trail weighing about 210 lbs, and
>ended up weighing 180.
>
>Has anyone experienced anything like this? I'd really appreciate
>hearing any shared experiences, advice or insights on what I can do
>about the problem.
>
>Thanks a lot,
>David
>
>appell@together.net
>http://www.together.net/~appell
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>From: "Jim.Lemire."<James_Lemire@valley.net>
>Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 13:02:13 +0000
>Subject: thru hiking
>
>At 09:38 PM 4/23/97 -0700, you wrote:
>>We be jammin'
>>
>>The thing about this whole 'thru-hikin' controversy is, we are *all*
>>right. Rosie's hike was an incredible feat. It is something she should
>>cherish always. If she wants to think it is better than what someone else
>>does, think it. Don't say it.
>
>amen, Felix
>
>I think Rosie's writing style may be the problem. I suspect she would proud
>without the abrasive tone in person.
>
>It happens, like Jim O said, sarcasm doesn't work here well. I remember
>when some failed to see felix's humor one time.
>
>AT2000
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>From: Svein Eriksen <sveinse@gudmund.vgs.no>
>Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 19:13:36 +0200
>Subject: Re: What is a Thru-hike?
>
>My thru-hike consisted of a series of (consecutive) day-hikes (and yes,
>my pack was fairly heavy), but I never met anyone who did it in a single
>hike, so what's the point of arguing?
>
>svein
>
>------------------------------
>
>From: "Jim.Lemire."<James_Lemire@valley.net>
>Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 13:17:22 +0000
>Subject: re: I'll tell you what a purist is
>
>Listen up all you pack totin, ramen eatin, mile crunching sons (and
>daughters) of guns. I'll tell you what is a purist.
>
>The Purist was born to hike. He was weaned on giardia water, and cut his
>teeth chewing on Pennsylvania boulders. His childhood dreams were of an
>endless green tunnel and his heroes were the mighty men of yore who strode
>through wilderness when it really was.
>
>Reminds me of Patrick McManus's book, "A Fine and Pleasant Misery"
>
>"Their backpacking is a refined sport, noted for lightness. The gear
>consists of such things as silk packs, magnesium frames, dainty camp
>stoves. Their sleeping bags are filled with the down of unborn goose, their
>tents made of waterproof smoke. They carry two little packets from which
>they can spread out a nine-course meal. One packet contains the food and
>the other a freeze-dried French chef."
>
>"The rule of thumb for the old backpacking was that the weight of your pack
>should equal the weight of yourself and the kitchen range combined. Just a
>casual glance at a full pack sitting on the floor could give you a double
>hernia and fuse four vertebrae."
>
>another world ago
>
>AT2000
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>From: ktjensen@juno.com
>Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 14:08:12 EDT
>Subject: Transcribing Journals to Email
>
>Here is a little technical comment on this activity. Hospitals pay good
>money to services that do this work for doctors. Technically they just
>call a phone number (local or 800 number) and the resulting voice
>transcript gets typed for input into a medical record. If someone wanted
>to speed the process up, maybe they could donate an 800 number for AT
>Through Hikers to call, for fast updates. This would certainly be more
>cost effective for people with busy schedules. Just a thought.
>
>On Trailplace the journal gets typed in from the field journals at
>shelters (I think that's the way it works). Who owns the copyright for
>the journal entries?? Is that the original author? or does Trailplace
>own it after it is on thier server? I know this may open a can of worms,
>but I am sure that this info will be eventually in someones book for sale
>somewhere, someday.
>
>Any comments??
>
>------------------------------
>
>From: JDForbes7@aol.com
>Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 14:51:13 -0400 (EDT)
>Subject: Re: Definition
>
>In a message dated 97-04-21 16:22:26 EDT, atlist@trailplace.com (ATML)
>writes:
>
><< As I understand it, a thru-hiker is someone who is ATTEMPTING to hike th=
e
> entire AT in one continuous journey. As long as the attempt is being made,
> even if interrupted by months, even years, for recuperation or whatever of=
f
> the Trail, that person is a thru-hiker. It's as much a mental state as a
> physical one. Same goes for section hiker. As soon as anyone completes the
> entire Trail, in any manner, they are a 2,000-Miler. The end product
> (2,000-Miler) is the same, no matter how done, how long it takes, or
> whatever other variable is involved. Just my thoughts and the way I look a=
t
> this whole question.--Wingfoot >>
>
>
> Ditto.
>
>FreeMan
>
>------------------------------
>
>From: "Gene Cochran" <archangel@weblnk.net>
>Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 14:56:07 -0700
>Subject: Re: ankles (was Re: Waldo's dilemma)
>
>Have they checked for pinched nerves? Also, a compressed disk, if I
>remember correctly, can cause symptoms similar to this.
>
>Just a thought.
>
>The Lord Bless and Keep You!
>
>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>Gene Cochran
>(a.k.a. Archangel)
>archangel@weblnk.net
>http://archangel.home.ml.org/
> <IXOYE><
>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
>- ----------
>: From: David Appell <appell@together.net>
>
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