I went to REI an compare the northface and mountainsmith packs. I decidde to get the Crestone II. It is 80.00 less than the renegade, an larger. It is very loud with all the straps andd stuff, but I think it will get the job done. One problem with the pack is that got only one large pocket with no seprate bag pocket. Oh well. -blake- Blake Mayerle firstname.lastname@example.org AT 97'