[at-l] Knowing that it's there.. and atml

[spiriteagle99 at hotmail.com (Jim and/or Ginny Owen)]

Rafe wrote:
>LOL.  As if the American pioneers had pre-
>emptively channeled John Muir and Aldo Leopold.
>Bwaaahahahaha.

Without those American pioneers you wouldn't have as much to hate and bitch 
about, would you? But you also wouldn't have the freedom to bitch and whine 
either.  You really should be a little more grateful and a little less 
hateful.

>Your forefathers exterminated the buffalo, the
>native humans, the wolves, bear, and any other
>critter that they could render into money, or which
>interfered in any way with their thorough, efficient
>exploitation of the land.
>
>They turned rivers into sewers and fouled the air
>with millions of tons of exhaust.  Their landscape
>is fouled with landfills, buried waste, and small
>mountains made of tires and dead cars.

Hmmm - so where were "your" forefathers while all this was going on?

In fact, if memory serves, some of your forefathers spent time as guests of 
Herr Hitler.  Keep in mind that some of "my" forefathers paid a large price 
in pain, blood and lives to get your forefathers out of Hitlers Gasthaus. 
You really should be a little more grateful and a little less hateful.

>And yet, "illegals and immigrants" will be the cause
>of our downfall, according to the sage, Bun-Bun.
>
>Presumably it's these "illegals and immigrants"
>who are happily blowing the tops off mountains
>in West Virginia.  Coal mining for the 21st century,
>check it out.
>
><http://www.appvoices.org/mtr/default.asp>

That's called "misdirection", Rafe.  If you've got something - anything to 
say about the future - don't mix it up with the past - or even the present.  
It'll be the "illegals and immigrants" who will determine the makeup of many 
of the legislatures of the future (at all levels).  And it'll be those 
legislatures that determine the future of "wilderness" in this country.  You 
might want to learn something about the cultures that those "illegals and 
immigrants" come from.

Sometimes I've gotta wonder if you actually know anything about wilderness.  
Did you know, for example, that every designated Wilderness Area out West is 
in the process of being rapidly trashed by those who disdain the vast 
stretches of National Forest, but just have to hike in the Wilderness Areas 
- and ONLY in the Wilderness Areas.  Many of those areas are so overcrowded 
that they now require permits for camping and some (like Desolation 
Wilderness in CA) require permits even for a dayhike.  While at the same 
time, there are vast stretches of National Forest that are used only by 
wildlife and hunters - and the few hikers who actually know where to find 
"wilderness."  Do you have any idea how many of the wilderness areas and 
National Parks are the result of gifts of extremelly large tracts of land 
from the very industrialists and corporations that you seem to hate so much? 
  That's also the origin of most of the State Forests in PA, MD, WV and NJ.  
You really should be a little more grateful and a little less hateful.

>Bush and Cheney have fine, all-American pedigrees,
>but they'd put up a pig farm in Yosemite in an
>instant, if they could get away with it.

So - where were Clinton, Carter, Kennedy, Johnson, Truman and Roosevelt 
during all this activity? Or don't you have any idea how far back this goes? 
  Or maybe you don't realize that the origins of strip mining were with 
Democratic businessmen?  And this is nothing more than an extension of  
strip mining.  Sorry, Bubba, but I was raised with the strip mines as my 
playground.  That doesn't mean I approve of it - it means I know the reality 
a lot better than you seem to.  And I know that blaming it on Bush is too 
stupid for words.  Go talk to your Congressmen and Senators.

In point of fact, in 2003 the environmental organizations basically got a 
30% raise from the Feds - courtesy of Bush & Co.  Didn't get Bush any praise 
or gratitude though - just more vitriol.  You really should be a little more 
grateful and a little less hateful.

>Jim, your remark really is insulting and ignorant.
>I'm sorry, but there's no more polite way to put it.

You really should learn some real history rather that the revisionist 
history that you seem to have been taught.  As I told Shane - as William 
James opined: "Most people believe they're
thinking when all they're doing is rearranging their prejudices."  And you 
certainly DO have prejudices.

Coming from you, I'll take that as a compliment.

Walk softly,
Jim

http://www.spiriteaglehome.com/