[at-l] On topic if you carry a cell on the trail... OT if you dont... Imp...

[spiriteagle99 at hotmail.com (Jim and/or Ginny Owen)]

Saunterer, walking however the mood strikes him wrote:
>Yeahbut, why does 'quality' of a thru-hike = "disconnection".

I wonder why "yeahbut" always precedes major objections?  <G>

I also wonder why this discussion raised "your" blood pressure since nearly 
none of it applies to you? But you obviously like fruit salad cause you're 
mixing apples, oranges, grapes and bananas here.  <G>

Now - to answer your questions - in this context, "disconnection" is a 
mental/emotional state that results from prolonged exposure to "uncivilized" 
conditions.  It can come from combat - it can come from exposure to Third 
World conditions - it can also come from a thruhike - or any prolonged time 
on the trail (any trail).  It's a long-term effect and has nothing whatever 
to do with your "enlightenment" state.

>I go to the woods to get connected, to *feel* the universe and my place in 
>it.

So do I - so does Ginny - so do most thruhikers. You're confusing the 
"disconnection" that Chainsaw and I wrote about with a "disconnection" from 
the universe.  You're looking through the wrong end of the telescope.  Our 
"disconnection" - is FROM the so-called "civilized world" with a 
corresponding connection TO the universe on a level that I suspect you've 
never experienced.  Try a thruhike  - or at least three months on the trail. 
  Then you'll have some vague idea what this is all about.

>Having a cell phone doesn't affect that one way or another.

For purposes of the present discussion (meaning "thruhiking") - of course it 
does. You're talking about short-term - I'm talking about long-term. And 
never the twain shall meet.  You've forgotten that I write for 
thruhikers/long distance hikers - and VERY rarely for day hikers or 
weekenders.

>You sound like those Hindu seekers who go to a cave in the mountains and 
>don't even want to see the people who bring them food because seeing others 
>will disturb their experience (leave the food and water outside the cave. 
>I'll get it after you go).

LOL!!! Really?  No, babe - I'm not talking about what we "seek" out there - 
I'm talking about what we "find" out there.  BIG difference.  For most (but 
not all) of those who do a thru, the mental state (disconnection) comes with 
long term exposure to the kind of conditions that Chainsaw wrote about - you 
need to read that again.

>And what about all those road crossings and town stops on your long hikes? 
>What about calling family/friends from towns on land lines or going to the 
>library to catch up on email and post your journal entries? I'd think they 
>are bigger reminders of the world outside your hike than a cell phone 
>buried in your pack.

I already covered that - or didn't you notice?

>One of my teachers said that it was no trick to achieve enlightenment in a 
>cave in the mountains. The trick is to do it in the midst of civilization. 
>I've felt it (a connection to all that is) sitting, in the woods, running 
>and on a bicycle. I haven't yet mastered doing it in the mall and it's 
>still easiest in the woods.

Your teacher had a lot to learn.  If you find "enlightenment" on a bicycle, 
then your
"enlightenment" is a whole lot different than what I've experienced and what 
I've known others to experience.  If you ever achieve satori on a bicycle 
you'll end up in a hospital - or worse - cause it'll rock your world like 
nothing else you've ever experienced.  BTDT (but not on a bicycle)

>So apparently my 'quality' hike is different from your 'quality' hike. Are 
>you saying that coming back from a hike feeling "disconnected" from the 
>rest of the world is better than coming back feeling at home in my life, 
>including the rest of the world?

No - but coming back from a long hike feeling "disconnected" from the 
"civilized" world is a renewal of life that you apparently have yet to 
experience.  It takes time to adjust - and most thruhikers DO take months to 
adjust.  Ask Jan - or Hotdog.  That's a whole lot different from anything 
you're even imagining.  After the CDT, it took me a year - and another 
thruhike - to recover, to get even partially "socialized" again.

>It sounds to me like you just have a hang up about cell phones. Get over 
>it. It's just wires and electronic stuff wrapped in plastic.

ROTFLMAO!!!

Sonny, I've been building electronics gear since 1952 - and playing with 
computers since 1958.  And a cell phone is nothing but a glorified computer 
combined with a crystal radio.  There's little you can tell me about them 
that I haven't heard or done before.  If I have a hang up, it ain't with 
cell phones - or GPS - or anything else electronic.  Try something a little 
more complex - like the rude, inconsiderate people who use them - or the 
man-machine interface - and the effect on the man. There was a line in the 
first Star Wars movie that ran like this:  "Have you ever noticed that those 
who work with machines tend to become like them?" Telling me that a cell 
phone or GPS or computer is "just wires and electronic stuff wrapped in 
plastic" is a level of ignorance that I wouldn't have expected of you.

>No one's telling you to carry one if you don't want to but when you tell 
>others that their hiking experience is as good as yours because they carry 
>a cell phone in their pack you are giving power to an inanimate object that 
>it does not have. It's all in your head, not in the phone.

I think you have a writo there - you  missed a "not".  But let's answer it 
the way I "think" you meant it and you can squawk if I'm wrong about your 
intent -

1. I don't carry a cell phone - or a GPS (tried that - it's a pain in the 
a$$)

2. I don't tell others to NOT carry one.  I DO tell them that it WILL affect 
their hike.  But whether they carry it or not is their business - their 
decision - and they get to live with the consequences.

3. I don't make judgments about whether my hike is better than theirs - or 
vice versa.  But when someone spends half a hiking day in town journaling or 
answering email, then you can be damn sure their hike is being affected by 
the "inanimate objects" that you think are so harmless.  When you get Rafe's 
words about ordering pizza from the Trail, you can be damn sure that 
"someone's" hike is being affected by that inanimate object.

4. A thruhike is all in your head, too.  Do you find thruhiking that easy to 
dismiss?

Now - after you've done your thruhike, come back and tell me about how you 
didn't find the "disconnection" that Chainsaw and Ginny and I know about, 
but you don't believe in.  Your belief/agreement is neither required nor 
expected.

Walk softly,
Jim, who thinks this discussion has become amusing, but not really relevant

http://www.spiriteaglehome.com/