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[at-l] OFF TOPIC: Extinction?



"So far as I know it was never recorded why the Revelation of St. John (not the same John who was a disciple)" 

Actually, it WAS the same John; he was the only one of the original Apostles not put to death for his beliefs...instead he was exiled to the Greek island of Patmos, where he wrote "Revelation".

You're right about the faith thing though; either one has it, or not.

-"Camo" (Who DOES...?)
-------------- Original message -------------- 
 At 05:15 PM 4/8/2005 -0400, Steve Adams wrote: 
You haven't proven God anymore than you have proven the Easter Bunny. 
 
 Steve, Believers don't work on evidence and proof, they rely on faith. Shorthand for "it is so because someone I choose to believe said so". They then insist that you accept it on faith because they said so. This process can continue for millennia without a shred of proof. Science on the other  hand lasts only a long as it can demonstrate the accuracy of its theories. 
 
 RE: The book of Revelation. Those who have studied Bible history know that the book included in the Bible is but one book of revelation among many that were considered for inclusion in the Bible. I don't recall the exact number but 25 sticks in my head for some reason. They were written by 
 ascetic monks who went out and sat in a cave on something akin to a Native American vision quest, meditating endlessly while eating little or nothing until they hallucinated. Then they wrote down their vision. So far as I know it was never recorded why the Revelation of St. John (not the same 
 John who was a disciple) was chosen over the others when they put together an "Authorized" version around 300 C.E. (formerly A.D.) nor do we have any idea how many "revelations" were never considered for inclusion because the manuscripts did not survive long enough. Its choice probably had something to do with "faith". 
 
 P.S. To whomever wrote the subject line as "OFF LIST"... It wasn't. You sent it to the list. I changed it to OFF TOPIC. Perhaps I should have made that WAY OFF TOPIC. 
 
 P.P.S. To creemos@pgmradio.org, I meant I'd read the entire *Bible*, not your entire post. Not just once, but several times. BTW I haven't checked the specific verses he gives, but Greg's list sounds pretty accurate. From jbullar1 at twcny.rr.com  Sat Apr  9 07:17:01 2005
From: jbullar1 at twcny.rr.com (Jim Bullard)
Date: Sat Apr  9 08:36:31 2005
Subject: [at-l] OFF TOPIC:  Extinction?
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20050409090526.01359360@pop-server>

At 06:44 AM 4/9/2005 +0000, camojack@comcast.net wrote:
>Actually, it WAS the same John; he was the only one of the original 
>Apostles not put to death for his beliefs...instead he was exiled to the 
>Greek island of Patmos, where he wrote "Revelation".

No, actually that is another article of faith. There is no record of what 
happened to the disciple John. The 'history' you refer to is 'inferred' 
from interpretations which are the subject of debate among Biblical 
historians. Authors of apocalyptic writings frequently used pseudonyms 
taken from heroic figures in their tradition. Some *believe* that it was 
the same John but no one *knows* that as a historically demonstrable fact. 
It could just as easily have been someone using his name, which is what my 
mother was told in divinity school.

Faith is not a bad thing, we all have it about one thing or another, but 
this is not the appropriate venue for discussion of personal religious 
faith. Take a hike please. Tell us about that.