"PS to JimO: Toe's troll to you... Re: [at-l] Virus Warning on at-l!

[spiriteagle99 at hotmail.com (Jim and/or Ginny Owen)]

Toey wrote -
>--- Jim and/or Ginny Owen <spiriteagle99@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > PS - for Toey - Mags is right - trail community "diversity" is
> > a self-serving and self-delusional myth.
>
>### Not only are you wrong, JimO, but you're late to the party
>-- the subject was retired last week some time. But wait a
>second! I just wrote that you're "wrong" in your thinking, JimO.

The subject is never "retired" Toey - it just doesn't stick its head up very 
often.  And when it does, most people ignore it.  It's kinda like sharing 
water with cows and geese - not many can stomach it.  Not many can look in 
the mirror and see what's really there.  Mags has - sorta.  I don't know how 
clearly he sees it - but at least he's gotten a glimpse of reality - and 
maybe more.

>No evidence to consider, no alternative hypothesis to measure,
>not a bit of evaluation -- except at you. What a lame, feeble,
>cheap-ass shot, to append onto the message, don't you think?

Nope - ya do what you can, when you can.  And sometimes anyway you can.

>Oh, hold it. What was your message, JimO?
>"...a self-serving and self-delusional myth."
>Hmmmm, no troll there.

Nope - just fact.

>So, are you big enough to not respond?
>
>geeandweallthinkaliketootoe

I'm big enough to stand up and tell you that what I've seen of your verson 
of diversity will eventually kill the AT - and a lot of other worthy 
projects.  Maybe I'm wrong - "maybe" you didn't say what I thought you said 
- "maybe."  But I won't count on it.

So - what are the fastest growing segments of the US population?  How long 
before those groups control the State legislatures?  Congress?  ---- and 
therefore the money.  You know - the Federal and State money that Weary 
wants to buy the land in Maine - that others want to buy land for the CDT 
and the PCT - for railtrails and parks and ... whatever  ----  and the money 
to administer that land, to build and maintain trails..........

So -- how many blacks have hiked the AT?  Or the PCT?  Or the CDT?
How many Hispanics/Latinos?  Orientals?  Muslims?

What do you think their motivation and attitude will be with regard to 
"wilderness"?  And the Trails?  And a lot of other "non-contributing" parts 
of the economy?

Do you really believe that present-day hikers hold up their part of 
contributing to the cost of acquiring and maintaining public land?  Hell, 
some of'em don't even pay taxes.  Some of 'em won't even tip a waitress 
properly.  And many of them will go out of their way to avoid paying 
anything that might actually contribute to the upkeep of the land they use.  
But don't get the idea that I think that ALL of the 
"upkeep/maintenance/whatever" is either necessary or useful. I've lived with 
Da Gubmint for too long to have those kind of silly illusiions.

Do you really think the white middle-to-upper class segment of society that 
hikes the long trails represents "diversity" in any way that matters?  What 
- you maybe wanta talk about those who are the  "mouthpieces" of the Trail 
community?  LOL - where do you think Warren and Baltimore Jack and MacKaye 
and RnR and Weary and a whole lot of others came from - the coal mines 
maybe?  They all came from white middle-to-upper class society.  But - yeah 
- you're right - some of us DID come from (or should I say - escaped from) 
the coal mines.  But not many of us were raised dirt-poor and I'm not about 
to be mistaken for your token "diversity".

Tell me, Toey - when you were in high school, how many of those you ran with 
didn't eat lunch cause there was no money for it? For how many of them was 
the activity-of-choice after dinner  meeting behind the high school and 
fighting with each other - cause there was no money for anything else?  How 
many of them couldn't afford soap for a shower after football or wrestling 
practice?  How many of those in your freshman class quit school to go to 
work and never graduated from high school.  If that's not where you came 
from and/or you can't name 100 thruhikers who DID come from that kind of 
background, then don't talk to me about economic diversity.  Do all or even 
a majority of thruhikers have college degrees?  I don't know - but I know 
there are a whole lot more degrees out there on the Trail than you know 
about.

How many of those questions do you want?  I've got a boatload of them - and 
the problems that come with them. And while you may be an economist, I don't 
believe you have any more answers to either the questions or the problems 
than I do.

You want talk about diversity - go talk a "minority" of any color or stripe 
into going hiking with you. Go find a coal miner or ditch digger or 
dishwasher to go with you.  Cause until a LOT of us do that for a lot of 
years - there ain't gonna be any real "diversity" in either the racial or 
economic sense in the Trail community.  And both the Trails AND the 
community are gonna suffer for it.

Ahh - you say "but look at what some of the perennial hikers do for a living 
in order to live and hike."  Yeah - I have looked - but I've also looked at 
where they came from - who their parents were - how they were raised - and 
the money behind a lot of them.  And what I've seen is a lot of middle class 
people who rebelled against what they were, or maybe its that they really 
found something they loved.  But they still have the education, some of them 
still have (or are living off) the money,  they still have the attitudes and 
expectations - they're still middle class - regardless of what they do (or 
don't do) for a living now.  And the fact is that most of them go back to 
that middle class lifestyle.  It ain't easy to give up comfort.

Claiming "diversity for the Trail community in general - and the AT 
community in particular - is precisely what I said - a self-serving and 
self-delusional myth.  Deal with it.  But don't expect me to buy into that 
kind of self-destructive delusion.
Walk soflty,
Jim