[at-l] School's in - and it's teaching time (LONG)

[spiriteagle99 at hotmail.com (Jim and/or Ginny Owen)]

Hmmm - this just got to be FUN - it's teaching time for at least some of the 
Class of '04 ----

For Frank - THIS is one of those things that you can learn from IF you 
decide to read and learn - and not just do the knee-jerk reaction thing and 
delete.  But it's your choice.  But beware - there IS some real information 
in here.  <G>


Toey wrote:
> > I DID say that IN GENERAL THOSE WHO THRUHIKE DO IT TO
> > THEMSELVES.
> > ... MOST THRUHIKERS - INCLUDING THE SORE TOE HIMSELF
>### wwwwWWRONG! HA! Brzzzt! EHHNT! (How do you make that other
>buzzer sound?)
>
>  - DO NOT/DID NOT USE THEM DURING THEIR THRUHIKES.  AND
> > THAT EVEN USING THEM IS NO GUARANTEE THAT YOUR BODY WILL NOT
>BREAK DOWN.
>### Thank youuuuuu. We're done here.

Uh huh - the mitigation measures we talked about at the Ruck (and anyone who 
wants can add anything I miss) were things like vitamins, glucosamine, and 
protein powder to avoid the usual vitamin deficiencies and to minimize 
muscle mass loss and joint (specifically knee) damage.

Did you use any of those, Toey?  Or were you workin' on that - what? 19 
year-old body?  And now you want to project that performance onto what is, 
in some cases, 50 or 60 year-old bodies?  Really?   <G>

Keep in mind that you haven't gotten to the 60 year-old body yet - you have 
some surprises comin'.

>### Ooops.
> >  AND THAT UNTIL TOEY GOES OUT THERE AND DOES A THRUHIKE WITH
>HIS "PHYSICAL ATTENTIVENESS" THEORY - THAT HE'S WORKING ON JUST
>THAT - THEORY, NOT REALITY.
>### You have no clue, Jimmie boy. Ask Mr. Mags which throughhike
>took more out of him, "in" shape or not. Try six ultra-marathons
>in 8 weeks, including overall Thirds and "First Masters", like
>me last autumn (I wasn't just "powerwalking" these puppies). Try
>20+ miles per day for a year (including a *competitive*
>ultra-marathon schedule, followed by a calender year Triple
>Crown hike (AT/PCT/CDT, Melissa), like Bryan Robinson. Hell,
>"babe", try just *training* for an ultra -- just one -- and then
>tell me who knows what about reality. Hardy-har-har-*har*.
>(Sheeesh.)

Yep - and you just labelled yourself as "NOT an average-bear thruhiker," 
didn't you?

If you're gonna talk about thruhiking, then talk thruhiking - not ultras.  
The relationship between the two is non-existent for 99.99% of thruhikers.  
In fact, two points - one that you're not carrying a pack for those ultras.  
And two, that of those who do what you do and go out to run (or hike) the 
trail, few have finished.  It don't necessarily translate.

In fact, the "in" shape part is mostly irelevant as well - it applies to the 
first month or so on the trail.  After that, those who are still hiking show 
little difference in performance regardless of what physical condition they 
were in before starting.  Of course, it surely does help to be "in" shape if 
you want to be "one of those still hiking" at theend of the first month.

Hmm - you might want to pay more attention, too - I understand that Brian 
Robinson just went through reconstructive knee surgery.  That's reality, 
too.


> > Fact is that there have been a lot of marathoners who have
> > done precisely what Toey advocates and have still NOT finished
>the Trail.
>### No lie! And there's lots of reasons to quit. But let's get
>to the relevant pool: those who're (let's say) in New Hampshire
>and feeling *good.* "Babe."

Yeah - there "are" lots of reasons to quit - and more than 90% of them are 
head reasons, of which some percentage are aggravated by bad nutrition.  
Getting off the Trail in North Carolina because of "a" blister (or even 
"blisters") - is NOT a physical problem - it's a head problem.  Getting off 
the trail in New Hampshire because you're "tired" is a head problem 
aggravated by self-starvation and vitamin deficiencies.  But it's only a 
reason to get off IF you're not willing to cure your problem with a 
couple-three days in town feeding and resting.  To quote someone whose name 
I don't remember at the moment - "You can't solve problems for someone whose 
problem is that they don't want their problem solved."  <G>

> > There are large numbers of people (marathoners or not) who
>start the AT and PCT using the latest and greatest nutritional
>theories - and still DO NOT finish.
>### Ahhh, like your Adkins diet, Chuckles? Let's just keep with
>"tried and true."

You should try to keep the discussion on topic and actually answer the 
questions, love.  If you don't like Atkins, that's not my problem.  It's 
yours.  But then - you don't need it, do you?
OTOH - some of us do - and your disdain is irrelevant.  When your "normal" 
blood sugar level hits 160 or 180 come back and tell me about how well you 
eat and how Atkins isn't worth doing.  <G>


> > And then Toey should remember the parts of his own journal
> > that he's put out here in the past.  As I recall, his own
>thruhike wasn't exactly a model of nutritional excellence.
><VBG>
>### What is that about "reading what I write" you so like to
>say, Jimmie-babe-love? Here's what *I* write:

Cool - let's take a  look at what you wrote.  .

>[Posted 4 or 5 times since 1998, "TOWNS=TIME=MONEY"]
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>MY STORY:
>In general, I found that the better I ate on the trail, the less
>I wanted or needed to spend in town -- spending money or time.

Yep - and the problem we started talking about is that most thruhikers DO 
NOT eat well on the Trail.  And that they DO continue hiking even when 
injured - which is a point you've ignored in your rush to prove that 
everyone should finish the Trail happy, uninjured and in peak physical 
condition.  Now -- pay attention to the article posted by anklebear a day or 
so ago.  To quote the article:

"He (Skurka) will stock up on food at convenience stores, but because he is 
on a budget--.............--he will live on candy and granola bars and 
instant noodles.

"I'll be burning about 6000 calories a day, three times the norm, so I'm 
going for anything with calories. I'll find the cheapest junk food I can 
that will also pack well," he said. "It's important that when I get into 
town that I go buy some peppers, oranges, bananas, but you can't bring that 
stuff out on the trail. Some mornings on the Appalachian Trail I had cookies 
for breakfast--there comes to a point [when] you don't really care."

And THAT is a typical AT thruhiker.  What was that stuff about thruhikers 
eating well?  Yeah - they "should".  But they don't.


>I started out with  the intention of buying all my food along
>the way. (I mean, how's a  person supposed to know how to make
>a food drop, anyway? How much food for X meals? How much time
>to cover X miles?) When my parents started sending me Care
>Packages, I raved and they sent more and more and  more. I
>spent less time in town (and spent less money there and less on
>food) as I went north.

The answers to your questions may not have been available then - but they 
certainly are today for anyone who's paying attention.

So - you ate better, not by your own plan or design, but because of your 
parents.  That has no relation to any of my hikes - or to that of most other 
thruhikers.  Most of us have to plan for ourselves - and most of us aren't 
willing to carry the pack weight that I strongly suspect you were carrying.  
So tell us - what was your pack weight?

We had a lad who left Monson with a 75# pack cause he wanted to "eat well" 
for the last stretch.  Cool - it was his pack and he got to carry it - not 
me.

>When I hit my old home state of Connecticut, I took five days
>off and planned out the rest of my hike. I averaged my
>hiking-day mileage, projected that to Mt. K, and bought and
>packaged and mailed everything  off for $150 in 1979, (about 800
>miles' worth?).

Smart - but once again - not relatable to what 99% of thruhikers can or will 
do - both because of your home location - and because of the time off-trail. 
  And it bears no relation whatever to what either you or anyone else 
does/did with the first half - two thirds of the trail.  In fact, most 
experienced thruhikers today will counsel against the "buy, package and mail 
everything for the next X months" because we know just how fast "we" got 
sick of some of what we sent.  And how much of it went into hiker boxes or 
trash cans.  And that's not cost effective at all.

>From then on, I only stayed overnight in Gorham
>(I was wiped! and three weeks without a  shower!!!),

Uh huh - you were wiped.  And for some people that's sufficient reason to go 
home.  I won't touch the shower part but I'd bet a few have gone home 
because of that, too.  <G>

>I ate
>better than the whole of the previous trip, I was never hungry
>and was always psyched. AND I was cheap, cheap, cheap. Got my
>half-gallons on sale. Naragansett Beer at Abol Bridge. And timed
>it  perfectly: ate emergency rice rations at Katahdin Stream.
>(Boy, there's a memory.)

As for being psyched - if a thruhiker isn't psyched at that point, they go 
home.  There's nothing  special about that part of the story.

Being cheap is good - sometimes.  But Skurka (see above) is also "cheap"  - 
so it's NOT always good either.

Emergency rice rations, huh?  Sorry - I ate better at Katahdin Stream than 
that - including the beer, soda and pie that I carried in.  <VBG>

>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>### Try reading that, Jim. The part about "I ate better than the
>whole of the previous trip, I was never hungry and was always
>psyched." BTW, it took me less than two months to go from
>Delaware Water Gap (July 15) to Katahdin (Sept 11). And I was
>"always psyched."

Yeah -  we covered the "I ate better" part, Toey.

Now - two months - you had a schedule to keep so you could get to school.  
That's cool.  But my philosphy is to spend MAXIMUM time on-Trail.  Six 
months on the AT - six months on the CDT and 5 months, 5 days on the PCT.  
And I was highly irritated because we finished the PCT 3 days early.  
Different strokes...............

If you wanta talk speed, Warren Doyle did the whole trail in a little over 
70 days in 1973.  The present record is about 48 days.  But Warren hiked - 
he didn't run.

For comparison purposes - two months is about 8 weeks - and DWG to Katahdin 
is about 1000 miles or about 125 miles per week.  That's about "average" 
thruhiker speed for the entire PCT,  less than average for the CDT and about 
25% greater than average for AT thruhikers in that section.


>Anyone has the right to have a bad hike, Melissa. I am *way* too
>much of a wimp to suffer long or silently. Hike, eat a boatload
>(maybe favor carbohydrates early on if your conditioning is
>down, or crank up your "machine" to where it burns fat more
>efficiently), mind your nutrition (a multivitamin is light, but
>I go the Carnation Instant Breakfast/SlimFast powder route),
>drink to keep your pee clear, stay away ibuprofen as a "habit"
>(hard/easy days just like your 'thon running should've taught
>you), and run and climb stairs (both directions) before you go.

Finally - that's good advice.  The Class of '04 should take it.

>And wonder why everyone else thinks "Georgia is soooo harrrrrd."

Because it IS hard, Toey.  Why do you think so many thruhikers develop knee 
problems and shin splints there - including many who ARE "in" shape.  Yeah - 
I know you just did it - and I saw your mileages, too.   <VBSEG>  And you 
can just keep on wondering why the grin is that big.  <G>

Walk softy,
Jim

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