[at-l] hiking poles' efficiency...

[RoksnRoots at aol.com (RoksnRoots@xxxxxxx)]

In a message dated 11/15/2003 6:36:41 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
jbullar1@twcny.rr.com writes:


> Not true. Erosion occurs even where hikers never set foot. I have photos of 
> 
> Mt. Colden taken from Marcy Dam over the years and the increase in bare 
> rock faces is plainly evident.  - -  Soil simply does not remain 
> unchanged over time when no one passes of it with hiking poles. 


           *** If you asked me, I would bet the increase in natural 
Adirondack slide faces is due to acid rain damaging the surrounding soil base and 
vegetation. More likely, a valid scientific study would show that the margins 
surrounding the slides possessed very thin soil recovering from the ice-age balding 
of ALL the Adirondack Mountains. If you took acid rain damage behavior into 
account, it is very likely these surrounding thin soil bases were the first to 
succumb to acid rain damage and lost their gripping power on the precarious 
slope. An unexplained expansion of the bare slide faces would completely conform 
to this scenario. 

       It's just another case of reaching for the soft conclusions...
 

  > 6 feet? I've seen trails eroded to 2?/3 feet but 6? Where is this section 
> 
> of trail? Why was it neglected by maintainers so long?



         ***   I believe I read that in here and the area was in the Smokies. 
What about the rest of the points?



> Did you take a Leki and try making one of those marks or simply decide to 
> blame Leki's? - -  Therefore I concluded that the marks I saw on 
> rocks (the vast majority at least) were from crampons where the whole weigh 
> of the hiker is on the crampon every time a foot is planted.
> 

             ***   I don't remember the scratches being there in 1986. In 
2000 they were so apparent they jumped out at you. I have to think that crampons 
were around long before 1986. Again Saunterer, I see an unhealthy trend 
amongst people to deny the environmental obvious. The holes I saw in NY were most 
certainly from poles...


>  Trail widening has occurred for decades, long 
> before Lekis came into use. Do they contribute to trail erosion? Logically 
> I have to agree that they do contribute but also logically, I believe that 
> the anti-Leki side is overstating the case by several orders of magnitude.


         ***     Most of the people I saw were just truckin down the trail 
using the poles where they landed. 

           The degree of damage is the important question here. I can't 
really estimate what percentage above normal trailbed wear the poles add? It's 
obvious that instead of having just boots scouring the trail there are now carbide 
tips picking along as well. 

           We can agree that almost no hikers stop to consider beforehand 
just what the impact will be. 



> So you are you saying that if everyone simply stopped using Lekis the AT 
> would never require rebuilding, grading and hardening in erosion vulnerable 
> places? Trail rebuilding, etc. will *undoubtedly* have to be done in the 
> future, Lekis or no Lekis. Any trail that gets used requires maintenance. 
> Lekis haven't changed that. Granted that lug soles and Lekis may increase 
> the need somewhat over smooth leather sole and no poles but they are 
> valuable tools for hikers who wish to minimize falls and damage to their 
> bodies from those falls. I think this whole Leki damage argument has taken 
> a "Chicken Little" quality.
> 

              ***   No, the Trail is eventually going to need a concerted 
organized effort to do massive trailbed rehabilitation and redesign. Lekis will 
be a small part of the whole business. 

             When I look at this, and almost every other environmental issue 
discussed publicly, I ask myself if the "chicken little" syndrome is the worst 
offense, or if simple disconcern formulated to look like calculated response 
is. After all, you see how difficult it is to organize group cooperation now a 
days. Maybe avoiding the involved negatives is part of the unconscious 
motive...


                  (PS - The Adirondacks are beautiful domed smooth granite 
tops that radiate a green lichen glow in the late day sun. They are a 4-5 
thousand foot version of the Whites, but more spread out.)