OT: RE: [at-l] libraries are our tax dollars at work

[nealb at midlandstech.edu (William Neal)]

((PLEASE TAKE OFF LIST: I did not mean to start an OT war.  I merely meant
to inform.))

((To be honest, this could have an effect on hiking the AT.  The AT does
pass near certain government facilities.  And skills used to hike the AT
could be of benefit to "terrorists".  And connections with innocent hikers
could be used to further terrorists' activities.))

In many areas, you cannot just give out library records.  Even to parents.
There is an "expectation of privacy".(see PS).  People have used library
records where "public" (see P2S) to stalk or harass people.  

Many libraries have traditionally protected patrons rights unless a
demonstrated reason is shown.  And usually it must be shown on a
case-by-case basis.  The so-called Patriot Act (see P3S) leaves a very wide
door for investigation -- such as during Hoover's days.  And it leaves open
a door for other law enforcement purposes.  

One of our Amendments was pushed because the early English authorities had
the right to "invade" your home and search for evidence that you were not
paying your legitimate taxes.  They did not even have to show a real and
legitimate suspicion that you were violating the law.  All they had to do
was have the "suspicion".  And many just went through the houses for the
hell of it or for personal reasons.

If I were a cop and I suspected that you were guility of a murder, I would
have to go to court and show that I had a reasonable suspicion.  Only then
could I get a court order to search your property and records.  

The Patriot Act allows almost unregulated searching of a person's records.
And as time goes along, if it is allowed to stand as is, it will probably
become more and more an open door to your records.  

Back during Hoover's days at the FBI I was investigated.  I was about 13.
My English teacher had us write to various businesses and tourist agencies
to get information.  In order to get a good grade, I decided to write to the
USSR Embassy.  Intourist (their governmental tourist bureau) was happy to
send me mailing after mailing on the tourist opportunities in the USSR.  I
did notice that for several months my mail was opened.  And once when I was
in the Post Office, one of the mail clerks called me to the side and let me
know that family's mail was being checked by certain gentlemen.  

Just before the war, I made some uncomplimentary remarks about Bush's push
for the war.  And after the war started, I did some explaining as to why I
supported our soldiers but not Bush.  Basically I questioned Bush's real
reasons for promoting the war -- I felt he was pushing for a war to take
people's minds off his economic and environment policies and his favoring
big business.  Guess who came to my apt. bldg. 

Library records do not help that much to dig out terrorists.  Ordinary
people use the same books or other library materials.  I have read the
Anarchists Cookbook.  I have read books on survival.  On atom bombs.  On
bio-weapons.  And I know others who have.  Including an elderly gentleman
who was a Marine in the Pacific during WW2.  Do you correlate with their
religion? One of Saddam's top advisors was Christian.  And I know a
Christian terrorist organization.  Can you say KKK.

No I do not think I am overly protective.  I think I have been around long
enough and read enough to know that our government does not always have our
best interests at heart.  And that to protect our freedom, we sometimes have
to push back.

Further, not all paid-for-by-tax-money items are open to public inspection.
Take doctors' records, hospital records, and such that are paid for with tax
money.  Or school records.  Or even employment records of government
employees.  

One last thing.  Not all libraries are public.  Not all libraries take tax
money.  And certainly booksellers are not paid for by tax money.

William, The Turtle



PS	When I was growing up, I read many books that my parents would not
have been happy with me reading them. ;-) Such as Stranger in a Strange Land
and such as a book about Buffalo Soldiers.  

P2S	Although it seems ridiculous, people have found what books another
was reading by checking the sign-out cards in the back of books.  Which is
one of the many reasons, sign-out cards are going the way of card catalogs
and the dodo bird. Granted it takes a lot of work but private investigators
and irrational people have the time to do such research.  One such case that
was told to me by a librarian was a husband who demanded to know everything
his wife read.  They did not give it out but he started browsing the
sign-out cards and found she was looking at books relating to divorce,
alimony, child support...  She lived.

P3S	The Patriot Act was probably named after so back-door consultation
with some Mad Avenue types.  It rings!  It soars!  And it hints that this is
an act Patriots supports, and thus anyone who does not support it is not a
Patriot and thus is un-American.  Seems like Charlie McCarthy ;-)... Ooops!
I mean Joe McCarthy is still alive and well in Washington.

-----Original Message-----
From: Sloetoe [mailto:sloetoe@yahoo.com]
Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2003 3:38 PM
To: at-l@backcountry.net
Subject: [at-l] libraries are our tax dollars at work


OBLIGATORY TRAIL NOTE:
Hit the library at lunch to get the Cohos Trail Guide, which
they had. Kewl. Still probably won't be able to make the trip
(house, job, ...), but it was good to get the book. (I ordered
it, but it has yet to be delivered.)

Anywho, William The Over-Protective Library Turtle wrote:
Yes, we do have terrorists using libraries and booksellers.  But
innocent people also may be looking for the same information. 
If you were researching "kiddie porn" so as to fight kiddie porn
would you want to be labelled as a pedophile just because you
accessed certain library materials or bought certain items?  Or
if you bought or checked-out The Anarachist Cookbook just to see
what it had in it? William, The Turtle

PS	Probably the worst part is that librarians cannot tell people
that their records have been searched by the government.

### Eventually, we're going to wise up and figure out that
library records are not medical records, but records of your use
of a public resource for which we all pay with our tax dollars.
Unless great reason is *demonstrated*, such public records are
generally *required* to be public in all 50 of these United
States and for the feds. What should NOT be held confidential is
the "librarians cannot tell people that their records have been
searched by the government". In a word with a brain, the FBI
would be required to publish who they are keeping an active file
on, as well as to spill the contents unless just cause is shown.
(With a rebutable presumption that the file should be open, sans
charges being filed.) At that point, then, the rush of
vigilantes and Entertainment Tonight geeks should put the annual
"Revelation" out the door and around the block.

Private, Taxpaying, Toe

=====
Spatior! Nitor! Nitor! Tempero!
   Pro Pondera Et Meliora.

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