[at-l] Re: The shelter system

[AThiker at smithville.net (Felix)]

Jim and/or Ginny Owen wrote:

>> How can this be? If
>> the next shelter is 5 miles further than the next good campsite, and 
>> I hike to the shelter anyway, am I lazy? Or, dumb?  I sure didn't feel
>> lazy that last 700 miles I hiked without staying in my tent.
>
>
> Hmmm - if you've got shelters at 7, 12, 17 and 24 miles - which one 
> are you gonna plan your day's hike to get to?
> Why do you HAVE TO HIKE TO ANY  OF THEM?


That shouldn't matter to you. It is my hike and I should be able to do 
it without you considering me lazy or dumb because of the way I do.


>   The ONLY requirements for a day of hiking is trail - and water 
> sources along the way. 

A bushwacker who carries two gallons of water would disagree.

> Those who believe that it's "necessary" to factor shelter locations 
> into their planning (other than as water sources) are still rank newbies.

What if it is a wily veteran who doesn't like to carry a tent? Or, 
doesn't like sleeping in a tent?

>   By the time a thruhiker gets past Hot Springs they should be over 
> that.  But most of them aren't - they're still in the "I'm gonna hike 
> to XXXX shelter and stop" mode.  They don't plan their day around time 
> and terrain - they plan it around "What shelter am I gonna stop at".  
> And when they get to that shelter - they stop. Even if it's 2 in the 
> afternoon.  No wonder the average AT thruhike takes 6 months today 
> when the average used to be 4 months. 


But, Jim...how does that matter? How does that make someone lazy or 
dumb? You do the side-trails. I flirt with waitresses. Others do the 
views...What makes the difference?


> One more point - if you're hiking shelter to shelter - whose hike ARE 
> you hiking?  Yours?  Or the hike defined by those who build the shelters? 


Then why stay on the trail at all? Is that not hiking someone else's 
hike? It is still my choice to stay or not. My problem with all of this 
is that I've been called, in no uncertain terms, lazy or dumb because I 
hiked from shelter to shelter. You didn't take into consideration that I 
may not like loading up a wet tent and gear in the morning. Jim, it 
rained all or part of everyday from Damascus to Springer for me 
(excepting days it was below 25?). Maybe I like the shelters. Maybe it 
was worth it for me to make a day shorter or longer for the sake of 
staying in a shelter...no matter the reason. (And, for the record, I DID 
have a tent with me until Stecoah Gap. I just didn't need to use it)



> "MY" hike is to hike as far as "I" want to hike, eat where I can, camp 
> when I'm tired - and where "I" want to - NOT where the shelter 
> builders believe is the right place for me to camp.

That's fine for you. It's also fine for me...because that IS what I did. 
It's not the only right way. I WANTED to stay in the shelters. Don't 
tell me I'm lazy or dumb for that. I'm not saying you're dumb for 
carrying the weight of a tent. Or, lazy for not pushing on to the next 
shelter.

>   YMMV - but my way works on a lot more trails than the 
> shelter-to-shelter method.  Did you know that there are exactly "TWO" 
> shelters on the CDT?  And "TWO" more on the PCT?  And that we didn't 
> stay in any of them? 

Not sure of the relevence.


> Tell me - have you ever camped on Angel's Rest?  Have you ever said 
> "forget the shelter - I'm gonna camp at the overlook"?  Or just said 
> -"I'm tired, this is a flat spot - this is home for the night"?  Or - 
> "12 miles isn't far enough and 21 is too far - I'll find a flat spot 
> when I get somewhere in between"?
> Do you have any idea how many AT hikers just follow the herd - and 
> never even think about doing anything like that? 

Yes, I have. And, it is their hike.

> As I recall - you didn't have a herd to follow, did you?  :-))


Nope. That was one of the many beauties of a southbound. And, the fact 
of the matter is: I don't like many hikers. I met a handful of 
northbounders I liked. Model T-type guys. Pilot-type girls. I met my 
share of FUBAR-types, too.

> No, my friend - I'm NOT telling you that you're lazy and dumb "IF" you 
> hike from shelter to shelter.  I'm telling you that you would be lazy 
> and dumb if you hiked from shelter to shelter ASSUMING that it's the 
> only way to hike.  And I know that you know better than that.

For some people it may be. It's the same as down vs. synthetic, alcohol 
vs. whitegas, treat vs. not....It really doesn't matter. Why say hike 
your own hike and then put 'em down for doing it?


> Now - with regard to the situation that started this mess - tell me 
> again - why do you carry a tent?  And what should you do with it when 
> the people you're around make you uncomfortable?  Yeah - you take your 
> tent, you hike on - and you camp someplace else.  ALWAYS!!!
>
> And once more - WHY did Moose and Co stay at that hostel that night?  
> Do the words "lazy" and "dumb" ring any bells for you?  They do for 
> me.  Go read what I wrote so many years ago in the Thruhiking Papers.  
> How many times, in how many different ways, in how many different 
> places have those words been echoed?  Do you really believe he'd never 
> heard them - never been exposed to the concept before?  If so - what 
> cave has he been hiding in? 


My guess is that Moose and Popsicle did what they thought was right for 
the situation. He was asleep when the assault occured. Doesn't sound too 
bad to me. There are basically three ways the situation could have gone 
with Popsicle and FUBAR: Positive, negative or neutral. Had she just 
walked by without a word, or even asked FUBAR if he was okay or needed 
help, we wouldn't be having this conversation at all (I believe).