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[at-l] Couple of questions
- Subject: [at-l] Couple of questions
- From: sallychaffin@hotmail.com (Sally Chaffin)
- Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 15:42:09 -0500
Hello!
------------------------------------------
I have a few questions that anyone is welcome to take a stab at. I'm trying to plan for a 2003 thru hike so I'll probably have many more than this along the way, so bare with me :)
------------------------------------------
1) How much money should I have saved before I go so that I can enjoy myself?
------------------------------------------
2) What experiences have people had with the Moonstone 3D/Zone 1 Ultralight bag and/ or the Wanderlust Nomad?
------------------------------------------
3) I used a tuna can/ denatured alcohol stove when I hike the LT...is it dumb to think that this will be fine for an AT thru hike?
------------------------------------------
Thanks in advance for the input!
------------------------------------------
Sally (Mustang)
------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------
>From: at-l-request@mailman.backcountry.net
>Reply-To: at-l@mailman.backcountry.net
>To: at-l@mailman.backcountry.net
>Subject: AT-L digest, Vol 1 #1050 - 49 msgs
>Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 10:49:04 -0500 (CDT)
>
>Send AT-L mailing list submissions to
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>
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>
>Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Help with skills list. (Rami)
> 2. Re: Re: AT-L digest, Vol 1 #1041 - 32 msgs - OT (Jason Ball)
> 3. Re: Hang your hammock with NO knots. (Clifford R. Haynes)
> 4. Re: Argh!! What happened to my camera? (DTimm65344@aol.com)
> 5. OT was Re: [at-l] Re: AT-L digest, Vol 1 #1041 - 32 msgs - OT (Steve Landis)
> 6. Advocacy list (RoksnRoots@aol.com)
> 7. Re: Argh!! What happened to my camera? (Raphael Bustin)
> 8. Re: We're here from the government... (WhoAh)
> 9. RE: Advocacy list (TJ Fort)
> 10. Re: Advocacy list (Steve Landis)
> 11. Short Hikes Report - Non AT related (Jason Ball)
> 12. Re: Help with skills list. (Raphael Bustin)
> 13. Hiking Cartoon (saunterer@jimbullard.org)
> 14. Re: Re: AT-L digest, Vol 1 #1041 - 32 msgs - OT (AHuthmaker@aol.com)
> 15. Re: OT was Re: [at-l] Re: AT-L digest, Vol 1 #1041 - 32 msgs - OT (AHuthmaker@aol.com)
> 16. Re: Advocacy list (Orange Bug)
> 17. Re: Advocacy list (Raphael Bustin)
> 18. Re: Advocacy list (Orange Bug)
> 19. Logging off for a few days... (Jim Lynch)
> 20. Re: Help with skills list. (DTimm65344@aol.com)
> 21. Advocacy List And "Newbies" (RoksnRoots@aol.com)
> 22. OT: My first hiking book debuts (ATnavi@aol.com)
> 23. Re: Advocacy List And "Newbies" (Raphael Bustin)
> 24. Glssary...shelters and Privies (kahley)
> 25. And...The List (ATnavi@aol.com)
> 26. Did my trip report get through? (Papa Bear)
> 27. Re: Did my trip report get through? (kahley)
> 28. The vote is in!!!!! (kahley)
> 29. Re: OT: My first hiking book debuts (DaRedhead@aol.com)
> 30. Re: Short Hikes Report - Non AT related (DaRedhead@aol.com)
> 31. Where SENSAWONDA came from (was) RE: [at-l] sensawonda (William Neal)
> 32. OT - Tubamans bike ride (DaRedhead@aol.com)
> 33. Great Shots, was did my trip report get through? (rick boudrie)
> 34. Re[2]: [at-l] Advocacy list (Bob C.)
> 35. Re: Glssary...shelters and Privies (W F Thorneloe)
> 36. Re: Great Shots, was did my trip report get through? (Papa Bear)
> 37. Re[2]: [at-l] Advocacy list (W F Thorneloe)
> 38. Re: Glssary...shelters and Privies (rick boudrie)
> 39. Like a virgin.....oohh was Re: [at-l] Glssary...shelters and
> Privies (kahley)
> 40. RE: Hang your hammock with NO knots. (Shane Steinkamp)
> 41. Re: Advocacy List And "Newbies" (DTimm65344@aol.com)
> 42. Re[2]: [at-l] Advocacy list (Jim and/or Ginny Owen)
> 43. Re: Re[2]: [at-l] Advocacy list (rick boudrie)
> 44. Re: Re[2]: [at-l] Advocacy list (Rami)
> 45. Re: Re[2]: [at-l] Advocacy list (Clifford R. Haynes)
> 46. Friends and CDT thruhikers (Jim and/or Ginny Owen)
> 47. Question about inline water filter safety (Linda Benschop)
> 48. Re: Question about inline water filter safety (Rami)
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 1
>Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 19:55:50 -0500
>From: Rami
>Subject: Re: [at-l] Help with skills list.
>To: Shane Steinkamp
, at-l@backcountry.net
>
>basic LNT; how to shit in the woods=A9; how to pack a backpack; what to =
>pack in your backpack; 1001 uses of duct tape, paracord, Swiss Army =
>knives, condoms, spit, etc...;boots and blisters; psychology of uphill=20
>
>
>I could go on, but I think I'm getting outside of the "before leaving =
>home" parameter...
>
>
>-r
> ----- Original Message -----=20
> From: Shane Steinkamp=20
> To: at-l@backcountry.net=20
> Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2002 4:13 PM
> Subject: [at-l] Help with skills list.
>
>
> I'm working on a page to answer the common 'newbie' question, "Where =
>do I
> begin?", and I need some help with the basic skills list.
>
> The page is here:
>
> =
>
>
> And the list so far is:
>
> The skills you should have BEFORE leaving home are as follows:
>
> First aid skills
> Basic Navigation
> Fire making and/or Stove Lighting
> Cooking and Eating
> Campsite selection
> Shelter setup
>
> All input welcome.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Shane
>
> _______________________________________________
> From the AT-L mailing list est. 1995
> Need help? http://www.at-l.org
> Archives: http://www.backcountry.net/arch/at/
> Change your options or unsubscribe:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/at-l
>
> Stay on topic!
>
>
>
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>--__--__--
>
>Message: 2
>Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 19:56:15 -0500
>From: Jason Ball
>Subject: Re: [at-l] Re: AT-L digest, Vol 1 #1041 - 32 msgs - OT
>To: AHuthmaker@aol.com, wolferrae@earthlink.net, at-l@mailman.backcountry.net
>Reply-to: Jason Ball
>
>I inadvertently made a mistake. The movie is Dance me outside, the TV series is The Rez. Sorry about that. The movie is by far the stronger of the two and is really well directed. The TV series starts out not to bad but does not have the seriousness of the movie and quickly becomes another Canadian TV production (Yawn). If you like shows about Native people, I suggest North of 60. Very well made series. I have seen all episodes and made for TV movies and they are excellent.
>J - The couch potato
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: AHuthmaker@aol.com
> To: jball65@shaw.ca ; wolferrae@earthlink.net ; at-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2002 12:17 PM
> Subject: Re: [at-l] Re: AT-L digest, Vol 1 #1041 - 32 msgs - OT
>
>
> In a message dated 6/18/2002 1:12:38 AM Eastern Daylight Time, jball65@shaw.ca writes:
>
>
>
> Kinda weird that you mention those two movies in one sentence. The Harrison
> pic frozen lake scenes was filmed about 1 hour north of where I live and
> about 2 - 3 hours from where the co-star (Adam Beach) of Windtalkers was
> raised. Adam Beach was hilarious in the movie THE REZ.
>
>
>
>
> Now I was trying to stay out of this, but when you mention Adam Beach's name.......well I just have to get involved!!!! I have never seen or heard of The Rez, but he was flat out amazing in Smoke Signals, and I urge all of you to run, do not walk, to your nearest rental place and rent it!!! And I thought I had every movie he had done!! Anna
>
>
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>--__--__--
>
>Message: 3
>Reply-To: "Clifford R. Haynes"
>From: "Clifford R. Haynes"
>To: "Shane Steinkamp"
,
> "jac 150"
,
,
> "BackpackingLight"
,
>
>Subject: Re: [at-l] Hang your hammock with NO knots.
>Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 21:06:11 -0400
>
>You need to be really careful about how tight you pull a setup like this.
>The ridge line in the hennessy is what determines the shape of the hammock.
>Essentially if you don't intent to exceed the weight limit on the hammock,
>you have to add the strain on the ridge line to the weight you are putting
>in the hammock.
>Bottom line with a hennessy, it isn't necessary to pull the ridge line very
>tight.
>
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 4
>From: DTimm65344@aol.com
>Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 21:13:57 EDT
>Subject: Re: [at-l] Argh!! What happened to my camera?
>To: shane@theplacewithnoname.com, Phil.Heffington@oc.edu, at-l@backcountry.net
>
>In a message dated 06/19/02 12:14:57 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
>shane@theplacewithnoname.com writes:
>
>
> > Uh... Barring that, the first thing I would do is change the batteries
>
>I think Shane is right here. My $20 camera has a rewinder on it and when the
>batteries are low, it has a mind of its own.
>
>Black&blue
>
>
>
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>--__--__--
>
>Message: 5
>Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 21:18:54 -0400
>From: Steve Landis
>To: Jason Ball
, AT-L
>Subject: OT was Re: [at-l] Re: AT-L digest, Vol 1 #1041 - 32 msgs - OT
>
>You might want to watch for Chris Eyre's new movie "Skins" with Adam
>Beach, it is scheduled for an August release.
>
>Steve
>
>Jason Ball wrote:
>
> >I inadvertently made a mistake. The movie is Dance me outside, the TV series is The Rez. Sorry about that. The movie is by far the stronger of the two and is really well directed. The TV series starts out not to bad but does not have the seriousness of the movie and quickly becomes another Canadian TV production (Yawn). If you like shows about Native people, I suggest North of 60. Very well made series. I have seen all episodes and made for TV movies and they are excellent.
> >J - The couch potato
> >
> >
>
>
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 6
>From: RoksnRoots@aol.com
>Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 21:28:06 EDT
>To: quoleldil@yahoo.com
>CC: AT-L@backcountry.net
>Subject: [at-l] Advocacy list
>
>In a message dated 6/19/2002 6:30:40 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
>quoleldil@yahoo.com writes:
>
>
> > I nominate the most ardent, erudite, knowledgeable and energetic supporter
> > for such topics, RnR, as moderator.
> >
>
> *** Weary would be the obviously more qualified. However, I myself
>consider this a ruse or coup to push serious Trail topics off the board to
>where they can quietly be forgotten. The very act of creating another board
>suggests Trail talk is more important than Trail. My belief is that the
>"newbies" couldn't get any better type of Trail exposure than understanding
>its conservation side. Thanks for your "vote"...
>
>
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>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 7
>Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 21:34:32 -0400
>To: at-l@mailman.backcountry.net
>From: Raphael Bustin
>Subject: Re: [at-l] Argh!! What happened to my camera?
>
>At 09:13 PM 6/19/2002 -0400, you wrote:
>
> >In a message dated 06/19/02 12:14:57 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> >shane@theplacewithnoname.com writes:
> >
> >
> > > Uh... Barring that, the first thing I would do is change the batteries
> >
> >I think Shane is right here. My $20 camera has a rewinder on it and when the
> >batteries are low, it has a mind of its own.
>
>
>Most cameras with batteries have a battery-check function
>or battery-condition indicator somewhere.
>
>Cold weather always affects batteries adversely -- this
>could be a factor while hiking, I suppose.
>
>I agree with sAunTerer that getting this fixed by July
>(at least, early July) will not be easy. sAunTerer seems
>to know his way around cameras.
.
>
>
>rafe b.
>aka terrapin
>
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 8
>From: WhoAh
>Subject: Re: [at-l] We're here from the government...
>Date: 20 Jun 2002 01:34:46 GMT
>Organization: Backcountry.Net
>To: at-l@mailman.backcountry.net
>
>Count me in on the advocacy list. I came to this forum to learn
>backpacking from the Masters, and am getting real tired of the endless
>debates. I get enough of that at work...
>
>I was a casual poster 6 - 8 months ago and have been in lurker mode for
>a while, and for the last 2 - 3 months I have been using the forum
>rather than have to weed through the mail, skipping the posts that were
>dragging on.
>
>I, too, was a member of TP, and enjoyed the posts there until it become
>to regimented. Please... let's get the at-l back to were it was and
>return to sharing the smashmellers instead of trading barbs.....
>
>WhoAh
>
>
>
>--
>
> - Posted via http://forums.backcountry.net
>
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 9
>From: "TJ Fort"
>To:
>Subject: RE: [at-l] Advocacy list
>Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 20:53:28 -0500
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: RoksnRoots@aol.com
>Subject: [at-l] Advocacy list
>
> > I myself consider this a ruse or coup to push serious Trail topics off the
>board
>
>well, you are half right.
>
> > My belief is that the "newbies" couldn't get any better type of
> > Trail exposure than understanding its conservation side. T
>
>then they, the newbies, and anyone else for that matter, can subscribe to
>Both lists and decide for themselves just which content to listen to.
>
>Let us remember we all have a right to free speech. But, NONE OF US has the
>right to be heard.
>
>It is my understanding that the majority of listers, and most importantly
>our benefactor, prefer to separate the content onto multiple lists. So, we
>all should honor His / their request. If Ryan didn't prefer a change of
>tone, he wouldn't have created the additional list. IMHO.
>
>t.
>
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 10
>Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 21:56:01 -0400
>From: Steve Landis
>CC: AT-L@backcountry.net
>Subject: Re: [at-l] Advocacy list
>
>And when is the Conspiracy list going to be up and running???
>
>Steve
>
>RoksnRoots@aol.com wrote rather reflexively:
>
> >.....However, I myself consider this a ruse or coup to push serious Trail topics off the board to where they can quietly be forgotten.....
> >
>
>
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 11
>Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 20:58:58 -0500
>From: Jason Ball
>To: "AT Mailing List (E-mail)"
>Reply-to: Jason Ball
>Subject: [at-l] Short Hikes Report - Non AT related
>
>Not to be misleading, this is a short (4 miles) hike report and it is =
>not on the AT.
>I got to the trailhead (read parking lot a the local park) at 17:00 and =
>put on my rain jacket and Deuter day pack. Although I didn't need my =
>hiking poles, I took them anyways just to get into the groove. No need =
>for the Sundowners either (fire road trail) but what the hey. The =
>weather all day has been humid and around 13:00 it started to pour. I =
>started off at a good clip and stopped once to adjust my sock which had =
>bunched up on the bottom (do I detect hotspot possibilities?). I stopped =
>by the Ducks Unlimited Marshland area and watched 3 sets of Canada Geese =
>lead there babies across the trail in front of me. There must have been =
>18 little downy balls cross the trail. And talk about protective, there =
>was one goose that watched me the whole time and honked when I moved =
>closer. I also saw Mallards, Swallows, Red-breasted black birds, what I =
>believe to be King Fishers, and an assortment of perhaps finches (they =
>were yellow). I didn't see the resident beavers although I noticed that =
>the dams had new saplings on them.
>Then the rain really started. I really understand the need for rain =
>gear. Wear it to get wet. At least I was warm. I continued on and passed =
>the mile and a half marker (or so my country boy skills tell me), and I =
>look ahead and I see White-tail deer standing on the trail. Well she =
>stood there in the rain watching me. I stood in the rain watching her. =
>Sure enough she stamped her feet a few times and started to, for lack of =
>a better word, fart.=20
>If you are not familiar with deer, they will watch you for a long while =
>and then if they feel that you may not be a threat, they paw the ground =
>to see if they can scare you off. If you don't run at that point, they =
>seem to signal to the deer behind them (they travel in groups for the =
>most part), by spraying the ground behind them to mark their territory =
>with Musk (or so I am told). This sounds like farting and it looks quite =
>funny because their tail gets blown up off their butt in the process.=20
>Well sure enough, behind her (I believe it was a her) comes another deer =
>and it too does the same thing. Eventually it moves on and when I look =
>at my watch (which is actually my cell phone - had to throw that in), a =
>twenty minutes has passed. I continue on down the trail. At this time of =
>the year, the ferns are almost 4 feet high in spots and the gumbo is =
>sticky. My feet are dry and I am warm and therefore happy. I stopped to =
>investigate some plants I had never seen before and once again another =
>deer. I have been on this trail many times throughout the year. In the =
>winter I see tracks, in the summer I see tracks but never a deer. Well =
>today I saw 3 deer. Unbelievable.=20
>If you have ever hiked in the rain with sun on the horizon, you will =
>understand what I mean when I say the colours are so intense. It's like =
>walking in a Kodak commercial. The 10,000 shades of green stand out =
>against the brown, tans, and blacks of the trees. The patches of water =
>ripple with all of the rain drops. And people ask me why I hike. =
>Buffoons. I am selfish, I will not share this with but a select few who =
>I feel will understand. I love to hike by myself or with distance =
>between me and my hiking partners. It's almost spiritual, the way the =
>muscles burn in the quads and the sweat drips off ones forehead.=20
>I am wet but the sun is peaking through.=20
>It won't last.=20
>Neither will the sun trying to say hi. I carry on. Leaving deep imprints =
>on the trail/road. If you ever get a chance to come to Manitoba, Canada, =
>stop off at the Red River and take a handful of the river mud aka gumbo =
>and squeeze it. Let it ooze through your fingers. Feels good. Now try =
>and get it off of you. Hah. Good luck. I have gumbo on the back of my =
>legs and it is wet now but boy oh boy try and get it off later. The =
>trail has several deer tracks and a few foot prints. Hardly anyone comes =
>out here. Too bad for them.=20
>As I round the last of the sheltered part of the trial, the frogs are =
>singing up a storm. I can't help but stop and throw a rock into one of =
>many little ponds. Instant quiet. 5 minutes goes by and finally. Ribbit, =
>Ribbit, Ribbit. Slowly and surely the concert resumes and so do I. As I =
>come out into the field walk portion of the trip, I notice movement of =
>to my right and see the 3 white tails (yes the tails) jump into the =
>bush. 6 deer. No one is going to believe me. I make my way along the =
>path and notice that the local 4x4's have been in the field during the =
>spring and torn up the ground leaving deep ruts. These people are such =
>heroes. They like to go out and get stuck and then burn their way out. =
>If they only knew what damage they were doing. The worst part is, if =
>they drove 20 minutes out of town, they would get to an area that is all =
>dunes and gravel pits and where the real 4x4ers go to play. Been there, =
>done that and may go again. It was fun getting stuck in the 4 foot deep =
>puddle and then play Dukes of Hazzard to get out of the car and then =
>fallin' in and havin' to ride in the back cause my buddy cherishes his =
>truck more than a wet friend. Don't think I didn't get him back. But =
>that's another story for another list.
>I finished off my hike by going to the local paddling club's digs. =
>Stopped and chatted with one of the coaches and decided I would like to =
>go paddling next week. They meet every day (competitive and =
>recreational) and have about 50 - 60 members. Don't worry, I haven't =
>traded in my Vasques yet.
>As I walked back to the a dry shirt and runners (aka the trailhead), I =
>stopped to marvel at a turtle. I have seen them before but this one was =
>the size of dinner plate. He was approximately 15 inches wide and he had =
>long nails and what looked like a dragon or dinosaur's tail. Totally =
>cool. Note to Self: Turtles don't like having hiking poles shoved in =
>their face.=20
>At last my dry shirt. I made it home in time to have hot soup and fresh =
>whole grain bread. I had some cheese and 2 glasses of wine. Oh yah and =
>it quit raining as I pulled up into my driveway.
>Thanks for letting me share.
>
>Jakealoo
>
>
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>--__--__--
>
>Message: 12
>Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 22:16:27 -0400
>To: Rami
, at-l@mailman.backcountry.net
>From: Raphael Bustin
>Subject: Re: [at-l] Help with skills list.
>
>At 07:55 PM 6/19/2002 -0500, Rami wrote:
>
> >psychology of uphill
>
>
>That's easy. Assume that the climb will never end.
>That way, when it does, it's a pleasant surprise.
>
>Others have suggested that a similar psychology is
>useful for completing a thru hike. I wouldn't know.
>
>
>
>rafe b.
>aka terrapin
>
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 13
>Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 22:08:55 -0400
>To: at-l@backcountry.net
>From: saunterer@jimbullard.org
>Subject: [at-l] Hiking Cartoon
>
>Check out today's "Sequitur"
>http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/cx/uc/20020619/nq/nq020619l.html?u
>
>sAunTerer
>
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 14
>From: AHuthmaker@aol.com
>Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 22:37:08 EDT
>Subject: Re: [at-l] Re: AT-L digest, Vol 1 #1041 - 32 msgs - OT
>To: at-l@mailman.backcountry.net
>
>
>In a message dated 6/19/02 9:04:29 PM, jball65@shaw.ca writes:
>
><< I inadvertently made a mistake. The movie is Dance me outside, the TV
>series is The Rez. Sorry about that. The movie is by far the stronger of the
>two and is really well directed. The TV series starts out not to bad but does
>not have the seriousness of the movie and quickly becomes another Canadian TV
>production (Yawn). If you like shows about Native people, I suggest North of
>60. Very well made series. I have seen all episodes and made for TV movies
>and they are excellent. >>
>
>I own Dance Me Outside and I loved it! I don't have cable so it is hard to
>get any of those other grat shows. The thing I loved about Smoke Signals is
>that is was entirely written be, produced by and completely cast by Native
>Americans. That movie oped up my eyes to the writing of Sherman Alexie which
>led to other art by Native Americans. Why is it that this is so unknown to
>most of the population!?!?!?? Well, it is nice to see that someone else
>appreciates it!! Anna
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 15
>From: AHuthmaker@aol.com
>Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 22:40:38 EDT
>Subject: Re: OT was Re: [at-l] Re: AT-L digest, Vol 1 #1041 - 32 msgs - OT
>To: at-l@backcountry.net
>
>
>In a message dated 6/19/02 9:57:32 PM, landis@epix.net writes:
>
><< You might want to watch for Chris Eyre's new movie "Skins" with Adam
>Beach, it is scheduled for an August release.
> >>
>
>Really?! I also know that there was plans to do a sequel to Soke Signals
>based on Alexie's book Reservation Blues in which the guys form a band. I
>also heard that Chris Eyre was directing a movie based on Alexie's Indian
>Killer. Is that what Skins is do you think? anna
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 16
>Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 19:42:44 -0700 (PDT)
>From: Orange Bug
>Subject: Re: [at-l] Advocacy list
>To: Steve Landis
>Cc: AT-L@backcountry.net
>
>Right after the "Interpreting MacKaye" list signs up 100.
>
>Repetitive talk and no action makes for a dull list. For all of their
>complaints, they get more entertainment out of complaining than by
>doing anything of real advocacy for the trail. Their agenda is as
>narcissitic as the "Center," devoid of any sense of responsibility to
>the trail or the community.
>
>Bill...
>
>--- Steve Landis
wrote:
> > And when is the Conspiracy list going to be up and running???
> >
>
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
>http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 17
>Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 23:05:13 -0400
>To: Orange Bug
, at-l@mailman.backcountry.net
>From: Raphael Bustin
>Subject: Re: [at-l] Advocacy list
>
>At 07:42 PM 6/19/2002 -0700, OB wrote:
>
> >Right after the "Interpreting MacKaye" list signs up 100.
>
>
>It's off and running. MacKaye hasn't been mentioned.
>
>
> >Repetitive talk and no action makes for a dull list.
>
>
>As do movie reviews and ATC charity drives, after a while.
>
>
> >Their agenda is as narcissitic as the "Center" ...
>
>
>IMHO, hiking is inherently narcissistic. Who benefits, aside
>from the hiker
?
>
>
>rafe b.
>aka terrapin
>
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 18
>Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 20:24:10 -0700 (PDT)
>From: Orange Bug
>Subject: Re: [at-l] Advocacy list
>To: Raphael Bustin
, at-l@mailman.backcountry.net
>
>Actually, that is a very good question.
>
>Who benefits from hiking? Certainly, there is the benefit the
>individual hiker derives from the walk. But there is much more to the
>hike than just the act of moving feet.
>
>The preparation of a trail, the development of hiker and other
>community services, the maintenance of the same, the employment of the
>gear companies and outfitters, the dreams of the wannabes, the
>management of the land and local clubs, the motivation provided to
>those who prepare and support, and many other benefits occur from our
>sport.
>
>It is this real world advocacy and benefit cycle that our naysayers
>ignore, repeating strident claims of complacency and lack of dedication
>to our sport and our trails. Rather than practice advocacy, these bin
>Ladens have hijacked our list and wrecked much of our community's
>resources. I hope a seperate list gets them an ounce of motivation to
>allow the list to be resurrected.
>
>I am not very hopeful, as I suspect they have left us with a mound of
>rubble where the campfire once blazed.
>
>Bill...
>
>--- Raphael Bustin
wrote:
> > >Their agenda is as narcissitic as the "Center" ...
> >
> >
> > IMHO, hiking is inherently narcissistic. Who benefits, aside
> > from the hiker
?
>
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
>http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 19
>Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 23:35:48 -0400
>From: Jim Lynch
>To: Trail Advocacy List
,
> AT List
>Subject: [at-l] Logging off for a few days...
>
>Out of town and out of email access...
>back next week...
>--
>James P. ('Jim') Lynch
>jplynch@crosslink.net
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 20
>From: DTimm65344@aol.com
>Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 23:40:07 EDT
>Subject: Re: [at-l] Help with skills list.
>To: shane@theplacewithnoname.com
>CC: at-l@mailman.backcountry.net
>
>In a message dated 06/19/02 5:19:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
>shane@theplacewithnoname.com writes:
>
>
> > First aid skills
> > Basic Navigation
> > Fire making and/or Stove Lighting
> > Cooking and Eating
> > Campsite selection
> > Shelter setup
> >
>
>Shane -
>
>In addition to Rami's upgrades - which are all good, one would be to
>understand clothing (fabric, layering, etc.).
>
>Black&blue
>
>
>
>
>--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
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>---
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 21
>From: RoksnRoots@aol.com
>Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 01:05:18 EDT
>To: spiriteagle99@hotmail.com
>CC: AT-L@backcountry.net
>Subject: [at-l] Advocacy List And "Newbies"
>
>In a message dated 6/18/2002 11:31:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
>spiriteagle99@hotmail.com writes:
>
>
> > Shane -
> > That's not theory - it's fact. And it doesn't just apply to newbies. My
> > wife has 4 thruhikes and over 16,000 miles under her boots - and rarely
> > posts on at-l even though she was a major contributor to the list until a
> > year ago.
>
>
>
>
> *** I feel it's entirely unfair for a group inside AT-L to be isolated and
>criticized, yet be disallowed to respond in defense. Up to now of all the
>list members being accused of drifting off topic, I've noticed that is those
>who are making the complaints who seem to disregard the on-topic request yet
>at the same time preach respect for Ryan and following his rules. Of the
>people I suspect are the objects of this move I have yet to see a single one
>of them vilify and deride with such scornful contempt to the degree I've seen
>the self-proclaimed 'victims' do with impunity and no "off-topic" warnings or
>citing of their posts. If you remember, it was when the discussion got to
>this point last time that Ryan threw down the "off-topic" rule. If you care
>to notice, it wasn't me or any of the accused who brought the list back to
>this situation again.
> If your wife wants to post or not post is up to her. For you to sell
>some kind of fear of posting image is merely posing and doesn't cut it. I
>remember you tried the same trick with Redhead and she posted in my defense
>as a response. I know posing when I see it, this is it. In the same light I
>wonder how many maintainers or AT thinkers fear posting on AT-L because they
>fear this kind of harassment? The site was doing fine until this came up...
>
>
>
>
> How many others no longer post? How many of them have "real"
> > information to share - and aren't posting because they have no use for the
> > present "tone" of the conversation? And there are those who've tried to
> > tell us that the increased level of stridency, conflict and nastiness on
> > the
> > list doesn't affect the list content, structure or information flow.
> >
> > Bull.
>
>
> *** This sounds like "tone" as an excuse for ducking issues to me. The
>same question could equally be asked, "how many have shown increased interest
>because substantial Trail issues are given fair airing and the AT
>environmental side has been accurately represented?" For someone so sensitive
>about 'tone' Jim you post in a less than merry way yourself.
> As long as the questions are being asked, why don't we check how speaking
>of Trail advocacy in such negative terms and portraying it as a detriment to
>a Trail concerned group affects the AT? Not AT-L, but the AT! It's a cart
>before the horse issue. As much respect as I have for the great experiences
>people get from the Trail and the magical universe that grows around it, I
>can't seem to understand how some would directly attack the basis upon which
>the Trail exists? It seems like a contradiction to me and a failure to take
>up what provided that magic in a meaningful way. Magic is great, but what
>will be here in a 100 years to show for it? What exactly are you passing
>along to the 'newbies'?
>
>
>
> >
> > But let's get back to the newbies. There was a time when newbies showed up
> > here regularly - asked questions, got answers, went off to thruhike (or
> > maybe section hike), came back, and participated in helping others to do
> > what they'd done. That's what this list is about. Some of us have watched
> >
> > that cycle for a number of years.
>
>
> *** If the List built up to that state and people were happy with it
>more power to them. I wasn't here. But I have to ask myself as a person who
>found fascination in the Trail, learned about it, hiked it, and eventually
>maintained it, what exactly is the Trail and what is the Trail community?
>When I honestly answer that I find that the community is a varied and diverse
>cross section of people and hikers who for one reason or other show interest
>in the AT. What I saw the list moderator ask in keeping with the list is that
>members try to stay on topic and not disturb a sense of community. When I
>ponder that and look at the actual community, I find that when it's honestly
>and objectively considered, it contains some members who are "strident",
>god-fearing activists and promoters for the AT. Not only that, they are Trail
>maintainers, overseers, land preservers, and advocates with credible Trail
>backgrounds who speak with knowledge on Trail matters. Objectively observed,
>I find it hard to see these people as the subversive front they've been
>accused of being by some. I think they're just talking Trail as it is amongst
>the Trail community. Straight and real and without any magic kingdom
>prerequisite. Certainly that can't be anything wrong for the AT...
> There is another special cycle that some have watched through the years
>as well. It was the cycle of hard working volunteerism, sacrificing and
>fighting the tough battles for the AT that put the Trail there in the first
>place. Put the Trail there for hikers to enjoy and experience their Trail
>magic within. That process didn't happen magically without strife or
>disagreement. Still, some feel it gives them an equally fulfilling sense of
>magic in its own way. One that is certainly worth exposing to the AT
>community. A community that would then possess a more wholesome understanding
>and respect for the Trail they love...
>
>
>
> And we've watched it broken by a few
> > (very few) people who have no interest in the "real" purpose of the list -
> > only in their own agendas. For 6 years this was a "hiking" list. We
> > talked
> > about gear and weather and the AT and how to hike it - and about other
> > trails, about where we'd been and what we'd seen, about problems and
> > solutions.
>
>
> *** No matter how it is phrased, I have yet to see anyone justify
>separating the List and its agenda from the AT. I think it's a self-defeating
>act to try and I wonder who is committing the greater interruption of agenda
>here? Is having a special interpretation of the AT that gives such pleasure
>really worth campaigning against all other forms of Trail involvement for? Is
>it a recruitment that will cost the AT in the long run by isolating and
>labeling its more productive elements as disruptive and conflicting with our
>sense of Trail? Would a total more inclusive representation, however that
>arrives, be a more healthy Trail model to promote as a Trail community?
>
>
>
> >
> > We even occasionally talked about things like Saddleback - but without the
> > stridency and insistence that such things are more important than anything
> > else that could possibly be talked about here.
>
>
> *** Why do these list movements always occur after someone has argued
>their points well on the List? My spin on this is that it really isn't a
>concern over List tone, but an end around after realizing that some points
>don't fair well after being critically analyzed in Trail terms. Some won't be
>able to float their views as easily and don't like it. The Trail's
>environmental structure is too confining for HYOH freedom. What I'm sensing
>here is that some considered themselves AT-L personalities and took pride in
>being a noted Trail voice or source of advice and want to keep it that way.
>Even if that meant giving advice that didn't necessarily jibe with Trail
>definitions or desired Trail goals. The worst thing that could happen to this
>franchise would be alien groups coming in and telling people that maybe they
>weren't doing the best thing Trail-wise and could perhaps reconsider the
>Trail in a different way (the original way). It's obvious to me that such
>petty, overblown concerns suddenly become important when one's own personal
>politics suddenly become in obvious conflict with the AT and its purpose when
>it is adequately explained. Sometimes forcing an issue and working out a
>consensus by AT guidelines is more productive than making everybody feel
>good. Sounds to me like somebody wants to tell people building condos on the
>AT is OK and doesn't want to be challenged. Maybe this is a case of an inside
>list circle not wanting the List to actually be free to the point where they
>lose control to a more objective representation of the AT?
>
>
> >
> > Two points - the first being that the list has failed for the last year to
> > achieve its purpose - and that if it continues to fail, it will die. It
> > may
> > take several years, but if it serves no useful purpose, then it won't hold
> > the membership and it will slowly fade away.
>
>
> *** This strikes me as more melodrama. If it is true then it's a
>legitimate problem. I don't think chopping off a heightened level of
>legitimate Trail advocacy is the answer to that though. There was a list that
>provided a huge source of newbie practical information. I believe it was
>boycotted by you...
>
>
>
> >
> > The second point is that Ryan is apparently not happy with the present
> > situation. It's his list - not mine or yours or anyone elses. This is the
> >
> > second time he's offered to set up a separate list. I think it might
> > behoove those who object to that action to take a second look at their
> > reasoning. Personally, I haven't seen anything yet that comes even close
> > to
> > convincing me that the massive influx of "environmental" and "advocacy"
> > subjects has done anything useful or positive in any way for either the
> > list
> > or its members.
>
>
> *** If this List and that concern were the extent of the AT I would
>agree. They aren't. Have any of you anti-environmental topic members ever
>considered that maybe the extreme negativity and contempt that even benign
>attempts at mentioning a Trail ideology topic are met with could be causing
>that problem too? Maybe if advocacy was given a little more mature respect
>and viewed in its proper way in relation to the AT the newbies would be drawn
>into that AND hiking? That seems basic to me, but I feel that some are so
>convinced of their Trail understanding/politics that they won't even consider
>it. On which side does the intransigence lie?
>
>
>
>
> > What "good list synergy"? We've lost that - and the pitiful thing is that
> > some people can't even see that. And that a few others don't care as long
> > as they get to exercise their right to free speech. And others just want
> > the excitement of the divisive arguments.
>
>
> *** Not being able to press for just what we want the Trail to be
>amongst its most interested members seems like monotonistic, labotomistic
>conformity and mind death to me. The end result will be the Trail being
>controlled or "dictated" by people who only want to talk pleasantries without
>possibly upsetting anyone. The level of Trail involvement will be minimal as
>a preferred goal. What *is* good synergy is the real Trail as it exists in
>reality accurately be represented on a List organized around it. People
>insisting that only the part that makes them feel good be restricted to
>permissibility only act in hedonistic selfishness and show little respect for
>the formal AT. Why can't members still post information to newcomers if they
>like? They can...
>
>
> >
> > We can continue this discussion if you like - I haven't even gotten
> > started.
> > But for now, I'm tired and it's gonna be a long day tomorrow.
> >
>
> *** Thanks for your offer -And WF is always welcomed to rejoin the List
>too.
>
> A hundred years from now I would like this controversy to be presented
>as an historical event to future Trail people. The question would be asked of
>them, what choices did the Trail community in 2002 have and how did they deal
>with them? What were the long term effects of creating a good feeling of
>campfire community for the future of the Trail and what result did pushing
>for Trail advocacy and conservation involvement have? When the Trail
>community had the decision to make, which did they choose and why? How did
>that ultimately change the Trail's future? Hard questions, hard results, and
>certainly not a "talk show"...
>
>
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>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 22
>From: ATnavi@aol.com
>Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 07:42:12 EDT
>To: at-l@mailman.backcountry.net
>Subject: [at-l] OT: My first hiking book debuts
>
>Hey, gang!
>I know it's OT, but wanted to share the debut -- ta dah -- of my first hiking
>book! With many more to come. I've just wrapped up 300+ miles of hiking since
>quitting my job this spring, and am sitting down to write the second book. In
>the past two years, in no small part thanks to the support of folks from this
>list, I've hiked more than 1,000 miles just in Florida. Looking forward to
>ANOTHER 1,400 miles over the next year. And you didn't know Florida had this
>much trail? LOL. It's a big state.
>
>For the debut of "50 Hikes in Central Florida," Go to ths Amazon.com URL:
>http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0881505234/qid=1024572742/sr=1-2/ref=sr
>
>_1_2/103-9960521-0665404
>
>And watch for the "50 Hikes in...Florida" series to evolve as I continue to
>hike the Sunshine State! Little did I know hiking my own backyard would end
>up taking precedence to a thru ... if you're at the Gathering, I'll be
>presenting the Florida Trail (and perhaps Florida's other backpackable
>trails, as well) at workshops...
>
>Cheers, Navigator
>
>
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>---
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 23
>Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 07:55:48 -0400
>To: RoksnRoots@aol.com, at-l@mailman.backcountry.net
>From: Raphael Bustin
>Subject: Re: [at-l] Advocacy List And "Newbies"
>
>At 01:05 AM 6/20/2002 -0400, RnR wrote:
>
>
> > *** I feel it's entirely unfair for a group inside AT-L to be isolated
> > and
> >criticized, yet be disallowed to respond in defense. Up to now of all the
> >list members being accused of drifting off topic, I've noticed that is those
> >who are making the complaints who seem to disregard the on-topic request yet
> >at the same time preach respect for Ryan and following his rules. Of the
> >people I suspect are the objects of this move I have yet to see a single one
> >of them vilify and deride with such scornful contempt to the degree I've seen
> >the self-proclaimed 'victims' do with impunity and no "off-topic" warnings or
> >citing of their posts.
>
>
>
>
>
>Trying to be as dispassionate as I can about this, I have to say I'm
>with RnR here. I will take my pro-enviro rants to the TA list, if that's
>how it has to be. But I'm not at all happy about that.
>
>I think it's a shame and hugely disappointing, that folks who claim to
>treasure the AT experience can't or don't wish to discuss certain
>other (often less pleasant) matters that are so vital to that experience.
>
>Maybe it's just impossible to keep the discussion civil unless we keep
>it focused on pleasantries and trivia. I dunno. Looking forward to
>some time on the AT this weekend to ponder it all. Let it rain, I
>don't care
.
>
>
>rafe b.
>aka terrapin
>
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 24
>Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 07:57:49 -0500
>To: at-l@backcountry.net
>From: kahley
>Subject: [at-l] Glssary...shelters and Privies
>
>Wrapping up the glossary/vocabulary list for the 2003 Companion
>and I've come to an area where I am at a distinct dis-advantage.
>Some of you know I am a dedicated AT virgin in that I'm saving
>the Trail for a Thru for the most part, so I have seen only 2 shelters
>and never spent a night in one.
>Anyone with any input on what words/terms to include in reference
>to shelters?
>We might add the vocabulary list to Shane's newbee list as well.
>
>Privy...outdoor toilet
>Portajohn..Portable outdoor toilet
>Open air Privy...outdoor toilet without walls
>Half wall privy...outdoor toilet with low walls
>Composting Privy...outdoor toilet designed to recyle waste on site.
>
>Smokies Style Shelter...???
>Sleep deck..????
>Bear box... Pole from which food bags are suspended
>Bear pole.... Metal box in which food bags are protected
>Tent Pad...wooden deck provided for tenters
>Tent Sight...cleared area provided for tenters
>
>Do those divider boards on the floors have a name?
>
>Help me out here folks please???
>Remember, glossaries are for those who don't know and in this
>case, that's me
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 25
>From: ATnavi@aol.com
>Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 08:01:45 EDT
>To: at-l@backcountry.net
>Subject: [at-l] And...The List
>
>With the discussion of late, I wanted to chime in with my 2 cents. Yes, I'm
>one of the long-term members of the list. No, I've never done a thru,
>although I'd been planning on one since 1997. Life has put me through some
>major changes since then, and right now, establishing my career as an
>outdoors writer is far more important than six months on the AT.
>
>Advocacy has its place, but this list USED to be about camaraderie and
>helpfulness regarding hiking topics. For more than a year now, I've been
>hitting the delete key far more than I prefer, and I tend to read everything.
>While I won't go so far as Sloetoe did to resign, I do find the new tenor of
>the list argumentative rather than helpful, crushing rather than nurturing.
>The folks who used to be the "hiker support group" who did so much to get me
>out backpacking and to believe in myself have faded into the background,
>replaced by people who want to fuss and fume in public.
>
>AT-L has done a lot for me. In the span I've been a member, since 1996, I:
>started backpacking; started hiking day hikes of 8 miles plus, joined ALDHA,
>joined Keystone Trails, joined ATC, thru-hiked a 70-mile trail, started doing
>trail maintenance, went to trail conferences, started writing articles on the
>outdoors, joined Florida Trail Association, started writing books on the
>outdoors, became newsletter editor for ALDHA and the Florida Trail
>Association, and an activity leader. Started giving public talks on hiking.
>Hiked 1,000+ miles. And it's all thanks to the encouragement and support of
>original members of this list, who said "YES! You CAN do it!" And all thanks
>to Ryan Brooks for bringing us together in cyberspace.
>
>Since I joined the list, I've dealt with a divorce and the death of my
>sister, three moves, several job changes, and the breakup of a great
>relationship. But behind the scenes, these friends I made from the original
>list -- people I hiked with, people I met in person at The Gathering and The
>Ruck, at the KTA and FTA conferences -- keep providing me friendship and
>support. Many have become my closest friends.
>
>Sure, my friends and I still chat offline, but I miss their trail banter in
>this forum. I'm not happy about the sniping and bickering, which is
>why...although I could...I don't weigh in on most of the topics.
>
>I'll be off-list for the month of July, on a personal retreat. I expect to do
>some hiking on the AT while I'm up in the mountains, and to work on my novel.
>I expect to see some of the folks I know so well from here. And I hope, when
>I return, that y'all are back to the campfire that we once enjoyed so much.
>
>Cheers, Navigator
>
>
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>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 26
>From: "Papa Bear"
>To: "AT-List"
>Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 08:22:58 -0400
>Subject: [at-l] Did my trip report get through?
>
>Yesterday I sent in a medium length trip report of the first 4 days of =
>my recent section hike in to the list. I found it in the Archives but I =
>don't recall seeing it sent back out to me. Besides the text it had =
>several links to photos and stuff on the web. =20
>
>The subject was "Trip report Manchester Vt to Kinsman Notch - Part 1"
>
>Did this get through?
>
>Thanks
>Pb
>
>
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>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 27
>Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 08:40:26 -0500
>To: "Papa Bear"
,
> "AT-List"
>From: kahley
>Subject: Re: [at-l] Did my trip report get through?
>
>I got it PB and thanks...I enjoy your trip reports!!!
>
>At 08:22 AM 6/20/02 -0400, Papa Bear wrote:
> >Yesterday I sent in a medium length trip report of the first 4 days of my
> >recent section hike in to the list. I found it in the Archives but I
> >don't recall seeing it sent back out to me. Besides the text it had
> >several links to photos and stuff on the web.
> >
> >The subject was "Trip report Manchester Vt to Kinsman Notch - Part 1"
> >
> >Did this get through?
> >
> >Thanks
> >Pb
> >
> >
> >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
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> > text/html
> >---
> >_______________________________________________
> > From the AT-L mailing list est. 1995
> >Need help? http://www.at-l.org
> >Archives: http://www.backcountry.net/arch/at/
> >Change your options or unsubscribe:
> >http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/at-l
> >
> >Stay on topic!
>
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 28
>Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 08:53:09 -0500
>To: at-l@backcountry.net
>From: kahley
>Subject: [at-l] The vote is in!!!!!
>
>Purple is the newest M&M color.
>
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 29
>Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 08:55:38 -0400
>From: DaRedhead@aol.com
>To: ATnavi@aol.com, at-l@mailman.backcountry.net
>Subject: Re: [at-l] OT: My first hiking book debuts
>
>Woooo Hooooo, Navigator!!!!!
>
>Congrats. And hey, how can it be off topic - it's a hiking book, fer goodness sake!! See ya in July :)
>
>Red
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 30
>Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 09:03:41 -0400
>From: DaRedhead@aol.com
>To: jball65@shaw.ca|Jason, jball65@shaw.ca (Ball), at-l@backcountry.net
>Subject: Re: [at-l] Short Hikes Report - Non AT related
>
>No - thank YOU for sharing :)
>
>Red
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 31
>From: William Neal
>To: "'Bob C.'"
,
> "AT-Mailing list (E-mail)"
>
>Subject: Where SENSAWONDA came from (was) RE: [at-l] sensawonda
>Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 09:09:49 -0400
>
>Since I've seen on the list and gotten some replies (OL) about SENSAWONDA, I
>thought I would comment on where it came from. I cannot claim to have
>originated that term. I found it first in SFandom. And I understand that
>SFdom had been using it for awhile. I'm sure it preceeded the "V8"
>commercials where the gal or guys says "WOW I could have had a V8!!!". But
>sensawonda is the sense of WOW (WOW as in GOSH and not Woodmen Of the
>World). Try reading Dr. Doolittle or Tom Swift as you would when you were a
>child. Can you imagine what it would really be like to talk to an animal or
>to fly the first giant VTOL plane with living quarters, labs, and so on?
>
>Children seem to live in a constant sensawonda. Everything is bright and
>new and amazing and "possible". Even old stuff. Remember collecting and
>watching ants, tadpoles, and June bugs? Remember watching a building being
>built? Remember wondering about how milk, sugar, and peaches turned into
>peach ice cream inside that handturned churn? Their minds are limber and
>flexible and their minds have not gotten to be rigid "adult" computer
>programs. To them "Impossibility" is impossible. They are open to the
>universe.
>
>And it is sensawonda that lead me to reading Fantasy, SF, and Horror and
>their kith and kin. It's also what leads me out the door and stumbling down
>pathways that leads to God-knows-where.
>
>But it is a good word for most backpackers. Unless they are trying to be
>the first to hike the AT or the first to run backwards down the AT or...
>
>William, The Sensawonda Turtle
> -- Sensawonda, the new Wonda bread --
> -- Bread, the staff of Life --
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Bob C. [mailto:ellen@clinic.net]
>Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2002 7:21 PM
>To: at-l@backcountry.net
>Subject: Re: [at-l] sensawonda
>
>
>"...I first regained it when my son was born and I began to look at the
>world
>again through those brand new eyes."
>
>"A Sense of Wonder" was the title of one of Rachel Carson's last books,
>issued
>shortly before she died of cancer. She urged parents and friends to
>cultivate
>the sense of wonder of young children.
>
>It's her advice that first convinced me to let my three children plan their
>own
>hikes and set their own paces. Occasionally I see the book reissued, but
>it is
>well worth seeking out in used book stores, especially for parents of
>young
>children or those who have occasional to backpack with young children.
>
>Weary
>
>
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 32
>Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 09:14:43 -0400
>From: DaRedhead@aol.com
>To: at-l@backcountry.net
>Subject: [at-l] OT - Tubamans bike ride
>
>Excerpt from Tubamans most recent Portland to Portland bike tour update - I just thought it was interesting that he's seeing so much wildlife on a bike ride! I can make it hiking related since I can claim it's an update on a former thru hiker ;)
>
>"In the morning of Day 8 Dwayne woke up to a scorpian next to his tent. We saw lots of animals also on the ride today: bee hives, a hawk coming down for a kill on a rabbit, deer, horses, cows, a gopher, an owl, and a llama (don't ask me about where the llama came from). Today was the first time
>it rained on us and it stunk. We biked until freezing up in the mountains at an elevation of 4,000 ft. when we set up camp."
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 33
>From: "rick boudrie"
>To: papa_bear_nyc@yahoo.com, at-l@mailman.backcountry.net
>Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 09:19:04 -0400
>Subject: [at-l] Great Shots, was did my trip report get through?
>
> >I got it PB and thanks...I enjoy your trip reports!!!
>
>Me too. They are even better with his pictures attached. Through PB's link
>I just found galery page !!! Papa Bear got a shot of some Woodcock chicks
>that was especially cool. I've seen ruffed grouse chicks on the Trail with
>a hissing hen, but nothing like that. He has two of bog bridges that tell a
>great story about trail work. Well done indeed.
>
>Question for Papa Bear. Any chance you got a shot of the bridge over
>Clarendon Gorge? I am looking to jog my memory and have yet to see a good
>one on the net.
>
>Rick B
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
>http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
>
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 34
>Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 09:19:30 -0400
>From: "Bob C."
>Reply-To: "Bob C."
>To: at-l@backcountry.net
>Subject: Re[2]: [at-l] Advocacy list
>
>Hmmm. Speaking of stridency. "... Rather than practice advocacy, these bin
>Ladens have hijacked our list and wrecked much of our community's resources."
>says a strident OB.
>
>
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 35
>Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 09:25:02 -0400
>To: kahley
>From: W F Thorneloe
>Subject: Re: [at-l] Glssary...shelters and Privies
>Cc: at-l@backcountry.net
>
>At 07:57 AM 6/20/2002 -0500, kahley wrote:
> >Smokies Style Shelter...???
>
>Hiker cage
>
> >Bear box... Pole from which food bags are suspended
> >Bear pole.... Metal box in which food bags are protected
>
>I think you have those criss-crossed. I believe an alternative word for
>"food bag" is pinata.
>
> >Do those divider boards on the floors have a name?
>Kindling.
>
>;-)
>
>OrangeBug
>
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 36
>From: "Papa Bear"
>To: "rick boudrie"
>Cc: "AT-List"
>Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 09:31:13 -0400
>Subject: [at-l] Re: Great Shots, was did my trip report get through?
>
>Sorry no pictures of Clarendon Gorge, it was raining that morning and we
>made our way to the Whistlestop Restaurant. I didn't usually take pictures
>in the rain to protect the camera.
>
>Pb
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "rick boudrie"
>To:
;
>Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2002 9:19 AM
>Subject: Great Shots, was did my trip report get through?
>
>
> > >I got it PB and thanks...I enjoy your trip reports!!!
> >
> > Me too. They are even better with his pictures attached. Through PB's
>link
> > I just found galery page !!! Papa Bear got a shot of some Woodcock
>chicks
> > that was especially cool. I've seen ruffed grouse chicks on the Trail
>with
> > a hissing hen, but nothing like that. He has two of bog bridges that tell
>a
> > great story about trail work. Well done indeed.
> >
> > Question for Papa Bear. Any chance you got a shot of the bridge over
> > Clarendon Gorge? I am looking to jog my memory and have yet to see a good
> > one on the net.
> >
> > Rick B
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
> > http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
>
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 37
>Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 09:30:58 -0400
>To: "Bob C."
>From: W F Thorneloe
>Subject: Re[2]: [at-l] Advocacy list
>Cc: at-l@backcountry.net
>
>Thank you for noting I was not complacent.
>
>OrangeBug
>
>At 09:19 AM 6/20/2002 -0400, Bob C. wrote:
> >... says a strident OB.
>
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 38
>From: "rick boudrie"
>To: kahley@ptd.net, at-l@backcountry.net
>Subject: Re: [at-l] Glssary...shelters and Privies
>Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 09:41:41 -0400
>
>
> >Privy...outdoor toilet
> >Portajohn..Portable outdoor toilet
> >Open air Privy...outdoor toilet without walls
> >Half wall privy...outdoor toilet with low walls
> >Composting Privy...outdoor toilet designed to recyle waste on site.
>
>clivus... as in clivus multrum. Think Carter Hut (and Galehead, I think.)
>The Rolls Royce of composting toilets.
>
>200 feet from trail and water sources ... The distance people don't walk but
>should.
>
>Solar Powered Outhouse.. . NOt sure if they still have these, the one at
>Gentian pond was removed
>
>4-Seater... OT, Like the latrine on MASH that was praised for giving the men
>a chance to encourage one another.
>
>$350,000 or More... The cost (I think, but I dind't look it up) of the
>outhouse without flush toilets in the Delaware Water Gap.
>
> >Tent Pad...wooden deck provided for tenters
>
>Or Platform
>
>
>Rick B
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
>http://www.hotmail.com
>
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 39
>Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 09:52:03 -0500
>To: Raphael Bustin
, at-l@backcountry.net
>From: kahley
>Subject: Like a virgin.....oohh was Re: [at-l] Glssary...shelters and
> Privies
>
>At 09:17 AM 6/20/02 -0400, Raphael Bustin wrote:
> >At 07:57 AM 6/20/2002 -0500, you wrote:
> >
> >>Some of you know I am a dedicated AT virgin in that I'm saving
> >>the Trail for a Thru for the most part, so I have seen only 2 shelters
> >>and never spent a night in one.
> >
> >
> >This is odd. Never heard of that approach before.
> >
> >Tween you and me, a thru-hike is one of the *hardest*
> >ways to get to know the AT.
>
>That's just it. I don't want to get to know the AT until I thru.
>I want to come to it as a virgin, ready to experience it all
>for the first time. I don't want to retread ground that I've hiked
>before. I want every step to be brand spankin new.
>I'm not saying this is the best way. It's just the way I
>wanna do it. In my hiking life, I either hike the same trails
>I have hiked many times before....old friends actually or
>I wander off trail, wherever the four paws lead (well sorta).
>
>Both approaches have an advantage and an attraction but for
>the AT, I wanna have the senseofwonder of never ever having been
>at any particular spot before and probably never again. I'll
>have that for the 2000 +miles I have never set foot on!
>
>
>
> >Kinda like skipping Cathedral Ledge and "saving yourself"
> >for an ascent of K2.
> >
> >
> >rafe b.
> >
>
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 40
>From: "Shane Steinkamp"
>To: "Amy"
>Cc:
>Subject: RE: [at-l] Hang your hammock with NO knots.
>Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 09:13:04 -0500
>
> > > Hammock w/ropes.
> > > 2 Carabineers
> > > 1 Webbing strap, 6-8 feet long.
> > > 1 tie down strap available from any auto parts store.
> >
> > How much does this setup weigh once you've finished
> > modifying it?
>
>I didn't weigh it. If you cut the excess off the specta ropes, and discard
>the original webbing in favor of something lighter and longer, your net
>weight gain is probably 4-5 ounces...
>
>Shane
>
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 41
>From: DTimm65344@aol.com
>Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 10:28:24 EDT
>Subject: Re: [at-l] Advocacy List And "Newbies"
>To: rafe.bustin@verizon.net, RoksnRoots@aol.com, at-l@mailman.backcountry.net
>
>In a message dated 06/20/02 7:53:12 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
>rafe.bustin@verizon.net writes:
>
>
> > I think it's a shame and hugely disappointing, that folks who claim to
> > treasure the AT experience can't or don't wish to discuss certain
> > other (often less pleasant) matters that are so vital to that experience.
> >
>
>There are a whole lot of hikers beyond this list (or who may be on this list
>for all I know) who don't care about the subjects. Every hike I do, I carry
>out more stuff than I carried in as I pick up after those who clearly are
>just out to walk and escape the real world and could care less about the
>impact their trash has on the flora and fauna. I presume they speak to
>others of their treasured experience in the wild (and believe it) without
>really having a clue about what they do to it.
>
>Black&blue
>
>
>
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>---
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 42
>From: "Jim and/or Ginny Owen"
>To: at-l@backcountry.net
>Cc: ellen@clinic.net
>Subject: Re[2]: [at-l] Advocacy list
>Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 14:38:44 +0000
>
>Bob C. wrote:
>
> >Hmmm. Speaking of stridency. "... Rather than practice advocacy,
> >these bin Ladens have hijacked our list and wrecked much of our
> >community's resources." says a strident OB.
>
>
>And speaking of unnecessary nastiness......
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
>
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 43
>From: "rick boudrie"
>To: thornel@attglobal.net, ellen@clinic.net
>Cc: at-l@backcountry.net
>Subject: Re: Re[2]: [at-l] Advocacy list
>Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 10:43:30 -0400
>
>OB--
>
>Refering to others on this list as "these bin Ladens" goes beyond not being
>complacent. WHile I'm not educated good enough to know what strident means,
>I suspect that Weary's observation was something of an understament.
>
>Rick Boudrie
>
>
>
>
> >From: W F Thorneloe
> >To: "Bob C."
> >CC: at-l@backcountry.net
> >Subject: Re[2]: [at-l] Advocacy list
> >Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 09:30:58 -0400
> >
> >Thank you for noting I was not complacent.
> >
> >OrangeBug
> >
> >At 09:19 AM 6/20/2002 -0400, Bob C. wrote:
> >>... says a strident OB.
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >From the AT-L mailing list est. 1995
> >Need help? http://www.at-l.org
> >Archives: http://www.backcountry.net/arch/at/
> >Change your options or unsubscribe:
> >http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/at-l
> >
> >Stay on topic!
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
>
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 44
>Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 09:49:00 -0500
>From: Rami
>Subject: Re: Re[2]: [at-l] Advocacy list
>To: thornel@attglobal.net, ellen@clinic.net
>Cc: at-l@backcountry.net
>
>Awrighty boys, take those outside to measure 'em. The rest of us don't want to have to watch.
>
>
>
> >Thank you for noting I was not complacent.
> >
> >OrangeBug
> >
> >At 09:19 AM 6/20/2002 -0400, Bob C. wrote:
> >>... says a strident OB.
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >From the AT-L mailing list est. 1995
> >Need help? http://www.at-l.org
> >Archives: http://www.backcountry.net/arch/at/
> >Change your options or unsubscribe:
> >http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/at-l
> >
> >Stay on topic!
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> From the AT-L mailing list est. 1995
> Need help? http://www.at-l.org
> Archives: http://www.backcountry.net/arch/at/
> Change your options or unsubscribe:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/at-l
>
> Stay on topic!
>
>
>
>--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
>multipart/alternative
> text/plain (text body -- kept)
> text/html
>---
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 45
>Reply-To: "Clifford R. Haynes"
>From: "Clifford R. Haynes"
>To:
>Subject: Re: Re[2]: [at-l] Advocacy list
>Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 11:01:36 -0400
>
>LOL.....Yes here on Trail place we only discuss approved topics. Course with
>a dozen Wingfoots, its hard to tell what is approved.
>
> > Awrighty boys, take those outside to measure 'em. The rest of us don't
>want to have to watch.
> >
> >
> >
> > >Thank you for noting I was not complacent.
> > >
> > >OrangeBug
> > >
> > >At 09:19 AM 6/20/2002 -0400, Bob C. wrote:
> > >>... says a strident OB.
>
>
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 46
>From: "Jim and/or Ginny Owen"
>To: at-l@backcountry.net
>Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 15:13:43 +0000
>Subject: [at-l] Friends and CDT thruhikers
>
>
>For those who know Ishmael, he was in Leadville two days ago and Annie and
>the Salesman are a couple days behind. This is part of his latest post -
>
> >Today was yet another beautiful blue sky Colorado day.
>
> >I have not seen any other CDT folks since Saturday but Swiss Miss, Luzia,
> >PA Jeff, Wandering Bear, Sly and Cobweb are no more than one day behind me.
> >I did meet 7 Durango bound Colorado Trail hikers just before Tennessee Pass
> >today. It has been one wilderness area after another while the CDT and the
> >Colorado Trail remain the same trail. Collegiate Peaks, Mount Elbert, Mount
> >Massive and Holy Cross are all wilderness areas that I have walked through
> >in the past few days.
> >On Sunday night I climbed up 2700 feet of elevation gain in to reach Hope
> >Pass in the moonlight. It was an awesome if not symbolic experience.
> >Everyday has challenges, rewards, hardships, vistas, winds, pains and joys.
> >I am living an incredibly rich, full existence. I really feel like this is
> >what I was meant to be doing at this point in my life. In spite of the
> >elevation and the difficulty of the trail, the big miles have been going by
> >almost daily. The fires all burn elsewhere for now.
>
>He was right - Sly called us last night from Leadville. He's doin' well
>although he's not acclimated to the altitude yet.
>
>Y'all eat your hearts out. We've been there - and we'll be going back.
>Wanta go with us?
>
>Walk softly,
>Jim
>
>PS - That's an answer to your question, Rafe.
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
>
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 47
>From: "Linda Benschop"
>To:
>Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 11:31:15 -0400
>Subject: [at-l] Question about inline water filter safety
>
>Just got back from another hike and have a question. OB, you out there?
>While I was scooping up water at Long Creek Falls, I dropped the filter part
>of my bottle. Luckily, my husband had one too so we used that the remainder
>of the hike. However, now that the entire filter has fallen in the water,
>is in now contaminated? Is it safe to use again? Is there anything I can
>do to safely use it, maybe run some ETOH through it?
>
>Hummingbird
>
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 48
>Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 10:41:24 -0500
>From: Rami
>Subject: Re: [at-l] Question about inline water filter safety
>To: Linda Benschop
, at-l@mailman.backcountry.net
>
>If you carry a backup like iodine or chlorine tabs, you can soak the now-contaminated "clean" part of your set up in water that is treated with your back up. Treat it just like you're treating water to drink. 20 or 30 minutes in water (ziploc), rinse it with the same water so that you're sure any bugs are dead and you can continue using it.
>
> You can also (depending on your schedule and type of equipment) wash it in a dishwasher when you get home.
>
>-r
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Linda Benschop
> To: at-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2002 10:31 AM
> Subject: [at-l] Question about inline water filter safety
>
>
> Just got back from another hike and have a question. OB, you out there?
> While I was scooping up water at Long Creek Falls, I dropped the filter part
> of my bottle. Luckily, my husband had one too so we used that the remainder
> of the hike. However, now that the entire filter has fallen in the water,
> is in now contaminated? Is it safe to use again? Is there anything I can
> do to safely use it, maybe run some ETOH through it?
>
> Hummingbird
>
> _______________________________________________
> From the AT-L mailing list est. 1995
> Need help? http://www.at-l.org
> Archives: http://www.backcountry.net/arch/at/
> Change your options or unsubscribe:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/at-l
>
> Stay on topic!
>
>
>
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>
>
>--__--__--
>
>_______________________________________________
> From the AT-L mailing list est. 1995
> Need help? http://www.at-l.org
> Archives: http://www.backcountry.net/arch/at/
> Change your options or unsubscribe:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/at-l
>
>Stay on topic!
>
>End of AT-L Digest
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