[at-l] Wood stoves: a threat to the trail?

[RoksnRoots@aol.com (RoksnRoots@aol.com)]

In a message dated 2/25/02 9:53:20 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
spiriteagle99@hotmail.com writes:


> Because by your own words, "you" collect wood on the last stretch coming 
> into the shelter.  And I'm being generous with that couple miles.  Most 
> thruhikers don't have that much of a clue about how close they are to a 
> shelter until they actually stumble over it - so they won't be collecting 
> fuel two miles out - they'll be collecting in the actual shelter area.  And 
> the vast majority of thruhikers simply won't wander a quarter mile away 
> from 
> a shelter to find suitable wood for a Zip either.


     ***   As silent as he can be, Jim has a point. Most Zip users will park 
their pack and fan out from the shelter. I've done it many times myself. What 
Jim doesn't mention is the availability of good Zip material just from the 
scraps left by other fire builders. However, on the scale Weary proposes that 
wood supply would be gone in a few days. So would the next expanding ring etc 
etc. The present day condition of shelters is a good example. Cords of 
potential Zip wood have already been exploited by campfire builders. What 
makes Jim even more correct is the tendency to not want to wander too far 
from your pack. So, Zip proponents should use Trail information outlets to 
ask Zip users to seek the few ounces of needed wood a mile or so before the 
shelter. They'll get better 'pickins and be better Trail stewards. 
Maintainers could also leave a pile of chips somewhere near the shelter when 
possible. One good, cured, grey-colored, weathered blowdown could produce a 
motherlode of Zip material.  



> Now let's talk numbers - There are 11 shelters in Georgia ( I don't count 
> Whitley Gap cause VERY few thruhikers go there).  If 4000 thruhikers pass 
> through Georgia and it takes them an average of 6 days to do it, then 
> you're 
> talking 24,000 "thruhiker-days" or 24,000# of sticks, paper, wood chips, 
> whatever --- just in Georgia.  Or roughly 2200# per shelter area.  Now - go 
> collect 2200# of suitable Zip fuel from any shelter in Maine - and then 
> tell 
> me what the effect would be if that were done for 10 (or 50) years running. 
> Tell me about the denudation of ground cover, the stripped trees, the lack 
> of firewood which would then induce the few energetic thruhikers to strip 
> the forest even further out in order to feed their arsonistic tendencies.  
> I 
> think a few years of that might convince you  :-)))


    ***   Jim's scenario is actually fairly sound. Shelter grounds already 
experience something similar from campfire firewood collection. Somehow 
people always manage one though. Also, the trees will be shedding sticks 
while growing during that period. 
     What Jim doesn't realize is that such a concentration of singular demand 
could be easily offset by occasional supplementation of shelter supply by 
carrying a chip basket to the shelter. All a hiker or maintainer has to do is 
find one of the of millions of nice, perfectly cured dead downed trunks 
littering the forest and start chopping. I basket's worth of chips would 
supply a week's worth of hikers. This sounds preposterous, but so does 100% 
Zip use and the numbers you use. 100% Zip use would mean 100% cooperation in 
keeping the shelter stocked. This source would actually decrease shelter 
grounds trampling. 


> You're fantasizing again - the fact that it grows doesn't mean that it's 
> usable for your particular purpose.  Or indeed that it's actually 
> available. 
>   Or do you use live branches for fuel?  ----


     ***   Start your model at the dead sticking dropping off to the ground 
phase and continue with each year's dead sheddings. This cycle is never 
ending and replenishes the stock each year.



> Also - you're back into the "10 mile" thing - you don't carry fuel for 10 
> miles, why do you expect anyone else would?  Actually, and again by your 
> own 
> words, you don't go 100 feet off trail to gather wood either - or did I 
> misread that?


    ***  Good point. 99% of the area we are talking about is within a few 
hundred feet of the shelter and what nature supplies in that zone. Looks like 
a few large-sized coffee cans with lids and labels have to be stashed under 
the shelter for Zip users. The source being one single good-natured hiker 
going far away from the shelter to cheerfully restock the supply from a 
downed trunk. This would reduce a number of people searching for chips. The 
supply from the oak die-off 300 yards north of Fingerboard Shelter alone 
would last at least 50 years. That wood would be long gone by then... 


>  Your 60 cent a pound rice  < -->   It's a nice 
> idea - but in practice, most thruhikers dump it. 


   *** This is only mildly related to a Zip. I vary my diet between staple 
egg noodles, dried potatoes, Stove Top, rice and about anything else edible. 
Longer cooking time expands capability under any circumstances. 


> I won't buy that at all - what they emit is unburned hydrocarbons plus the 
> normal combustion products (water, CO2, etc) The CO2 will be "partially" 
> absorbed by surrounding vegetation 


    ***  Have to agree with Jim here. The CO2 will mostly pass right by the 
surrounding trees and into the atmosphere where there's already a surplus 
from human activity. CO2 production from Zip Stoves is probably equal to the 
daily cigar smoke of land developers toasting a new project. No, I'm wildly 
inaccurate, the cigar smoke is much worse. Zips are hot burners because of 
the forced air burner. They don't produce much ash and not much is left 
unburned...  

   Jim is probably right about fragile desert areas and other zones near the 
other major trails. I would have to consider bouncing the Zip there...

        For those who see this as a spent topic, I disagree. I think this is 
exactly what these sites are good for. The best thing that could happen would 
be that Trail users cooperate in exchanging information for the Trail's 
betterment. As a trail maintainer, Jim knows the constant chore cutting 
blowdowns out from the trailbed can be. This is one of the most tedious 
annual chores in Trail care. Weary gives us a good idea in suggesting that we 
occasionally use an axe for this duty. The chips left from clearing a 
blowdown off the trail would be an instant source for Zip material right at 
hikers feet. This is almost effortlessly combined with already existing Trail 
maintenance and serves an AT conservation need. Excellent idea Weary!




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