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[at-l] YuckYuckYuck... was GARUCK LIST
I'll go through this one line at a time, anyone out there is welcome to
delete.
In a message dated 1/1/2002 10:11:25 AM Eastern Standard Time,
kahley7@ptd.net writes:
> At 07:08 PM 12/31/01 -0500, Slyatpct@aol.com wrote:
> >If you think I'm whining, you're wrong. If you you don't like my posts and
> >think they sound sour, you're welcome to use the delete key, as you so
> often
> >suggest. Atleast, I'm on topic, and when I see something I don't agree
> with,
> >I reserve the right to respond,
>
> errrr....so do I. Sorry Sly, continued kvetching about a decision after
> the fact, when you know the deal is done, sorta defines sour grapes/whine
> in my book.
#### Until recently when I was drawn into this with Jan's suggestion for a
NCRUCK next year, and then OB mentioning my name and not Jan's in a follow up
post, I've remained silent. My only misgivings about the change of the
GARUCK this year was the price for a room, but that was ok because I could
camp or stay in the shelter and the lack of a communal room and group
kitchen. I'm sure they'll come up with something, hikers in general are a
talented group.
I HAVEN'T said anything about changing the venue at this late a date, nor
would I.
>
> >Are you kidding me? Go back and read the archives
>
> Sly you know that lots of the talk about these things goes back-channel
> so the whole story is not in the achieves. I'm not about to try and
> prove any point here, but IMS, there were questions about_if _there
> would be a GARUCK for a couple weeks. I was about convinced
> that the GARUCK would dissolve, much like our efforts to design a
> Ruck T-shirt until OB stepped up and announced the site. No one,
> including you, volunteered to take it over.
> If I'm wrong about this, I'm wrong but it's the way I remember it.
#### The GARuck would dissolve? That's a new one on me. I think the people
had too good a time last year for that to happen. Perhaps that was also a
back channel discussion, but from what I gather the only one that wanted the
change was the changer for reason he was warned about.
>
> > First was the date last year, that automatically conflicted
> >with the original ruck.
>
> That was a deliberate choice, designed to try and take some of
> the pressure off the PaRuck. The thinking was that if they were
> both on the same day, people_would_have to choose. Post
> mortem showed that the numbers of would-be, double Ruckers
> was probably under a half dozen which was pretty insignificant
> in the big picture so, this year we decided to skip the angst.
#### To take the pressure off the PARUCK? How about stop advertising outside
the list and word of mouth? OH, so WE decided to change the date? I thought
you had enough to do with "running" the PARUCK?
>
> >More than one wanted the date changed, so they could
> >at least of having the option of attending both. The date changed this
> year
> >so that wouldn't happen again, which is good, but if I'm not mistaken, it
> >took some coaxing.
>
> You are mistaken.
> snip.....
##### OK maybe I'm wrong, it won't be the last time, but why was the date
changed and didn't it have to do with the fact that it would allow listers to
attend both?
>
> >As far as announcing yet another Ruck, yes I will.
>
> EXCELLANT!!!!!! This is the whole idea. LotsaRucks. Lotsa Different
> Rucks. A Ruck for every taste and region. And you are wise to
> step up and take the initiative 'cause that seems to be the best
> way to insure the venue meets your specific needs!
#### The only "need" I have is trying to get first hand info on thru-hiking
the CDT, but I also have this urge to help other hikers on the other trails
if they are looking for it. The venue was choosen not for me, but for the
fact that it has the communal kitchen and room, prices that vary for anyones
wallet, other amenities as previously noted and is on the AT. I'm still
trying to figure how that changed in a few short years in PA, as opposed to
the original get together in HF.
>
> We have had the same problems with the PaRuck. Some people
> want a larger venue, maybe in Carlisle, closer to bars and restaurants
> and motel rooms. Some people want a smaller venue. IMS, you
> were one of those, pushing to move it to Bear's Den? We understood
> and listened to many of the complaints you had about The Mansion.
### First of all who is we? You and who else? I was one of those trying to
push it to Bear's Den when there was a chance we'd lose Ironmasters over the
fiasco with Tom running off with the hostels money. The need for a bigger
venue may still be there later if you continue to advertise it to the hilt
and fill up everyones day with something to do. No more sitting around, now
you need a schedule and there's no time to take a walk. You and your silent
co-horts are getting away from the original intentions.
>
> You didn't like the fact that the doors were locked at 10PM. I understand
> what being a smoker in a non smoking environment is like. We did
> get them to disable the alarm system (against AYH rules) and keep
> the doors open. Were you one of those who didn't like the separate
> dorms? It did seem silly, so we again, got them to ignore their own
> policy and the dorms are co-ed. I know you didn't like the price of
> 13.00 per nite but there isn't much we can do about that. AYH
> is not like dealing with a sole proprietor. The whole AYH system
> is suffering from lack of funds and considering the situation of
> what happened to the money from the first two PaRucks, they
> aren't willing to cut us too much slack!!!!! They have waived the
> day fees for Friday and Sunday and that's about as far as it goes.
#### Where's this all this coming from? Have I said anything about the
PARUCK lately? You're going to start in on me about my smoking, lol, so did
OB in a private post. What's with that? I'm not the only smoker that
attended and if I'm not mistaken you smoke too. I didn't like the fact that
the doors were locked at 10, probably because I seldom lock my door when I'm
in the house. Are you trying to tell me they were disabled for me? That's
good, I didn't want to have to sneak out the window. Get real Kahley the
last Ruck I attended had people up all night, sleeping on the deck and
passing freely. I took the couch and never complained about the fee. You're
the one that sleeps outside, not that it matters, but did you pay the fee?
If there was any fee I complained about it was the $5 day fee, which twice
ended up in Tom's pocket. The last time I was there the ATC put it up for
everyone and I know I didn't complain about that! : )
>
> I remember talking to you at the PaRuck '00, when you said you
> would not attend another PaRuck as long as it was held in the Mansion
> and you haven't because we haven't changed the venue....so be it.
> Now you have problems with the GARUCK last year and this year?
#### You must be on drugs, I never said that! The reason I didn't go to PA
last year is because I live in the south now and intented to go to the
Southern Ruck. That and the fact they had conflicting dates. If I wasn't
going to be doing the TeamTripleCrown thing, I though about PA in order to
get together with Jim and Ginny.
>
> I was really surprised to hear you didn't attend the GARUCK. I
> thought I remembered talk of a quest to find you a slide projector
> cause you were gonna show your PCT slides? I remember how
> disappointed I was that since I wasn't attending, I wouldn't see
> them, but since you didn't show I guess it didn't matter.
### Get the story straight. I didn't brush it off lightly, the reason I
didn't go, is because I came down with an awful flu and I explained it in a
post. I can't recall being as sick in recent memory. It was enough to keep
me in on the couch ALL weekend.
>
> As far as everything being rosie at last year's GARUCK, I find that
> hard to believe. Complaints don't seem to make it to the list, but
> those on the scene hear them at take them to heart.
### Maybe it wasn't rosie at the GARUCK, I don't know I wasn't there, but
what are you doubting they had a good time. I tend to believe them. I do
know or have been led to believe that OB's heat and hotwater didn't work. A
shame to spend all that good money on a shack. Still, Keith's lounge is
pretty cool and comfortable, but god knows he can squeeze two nickels and
make a quarter.
> At the
> PaRuck, we have changed what we can but some things are out
> of our control. The Mansion is sometimes too hot and some times
> too cold and always too dry (note to PaRucksters...bring your chap-
> stick). If you try and shower in the most popular showering times,
> you might not get better than tepid water. Lots of little things
> that you hear if you are on scene but get posted to the list because
> everyone has such a good time despite the problems. It's the post
> Ruck glow that makes it to the list, not the things that go wrong.
### It doesn't concern me Kahley, I don't think I'll be able to make it, plus
I already know the ropes. Perhaps you should let others know in a seperate
post. If you're open to constructive critisism, why not have a critique form
like the Gathering instead of trying to please everyone yourself.
>
> As far as OB changing the venue of this year's GARUCK, no where
> in the rules does it say that can't be done, because there are no rules.
> Someone steps up, sets the date and place, publishes the details
> and those that want to come do so. I just don't see how continued
> complaints about the wheres and the whens is helpful. No place
> will please every one. Heck...remember me? I've spent four Rucks
> sleeping outside because the thought of sleeping in the dorms
> leaves me colder that the sub-zero temps!!!! This is not my ideal.
> I may be a cool weather hiker but making a dash to the toilet at
> -3 degrees and looking like something the cat dragged in every
> morning is not high on my agenda.
>
> Heck, a private room, where I could retreat, regroup and regroom
> without the knowledge that six people might be also waiting for
> bathroom time sounds good to me! I think I like the sound of
> the GARUCK ! But just because the PaRuck's locale doesn't
> exactly meet my desires does not mean I'm gonna miss it!!!!!!
### zzzzzz......
>
> >The YuckYuckYuck Ruck for cross country planners. Exact dates and details
> to
> >be announced, but it probably be held at the NOC. I'm looking to establish
> >dates in March, when the AT hikers start pasing through and before the CDT
> >and PCT hikers head out west.
>
> See Sly? Already you are making the decision to craft the
> NCYuckRuck to meet your desires. Wise thinking and small
> payment for the time/emails/questions to come. Hopefully
> you'll get to talk to people about the trail you did last year and
> maybe hook up with people heading for the trail you'll do this year!
### Yes Kahley. I know it's a terrible burden, hopefully I'm up for the
challenge.
>
> Since you have asked for input, I might wonder if the timing
> might not make it less of a Ruck and more of another hiker
> bash but maybe that's what you have in mind and since I
> don't plan on attending, it's really not my concern.
### Less of a Ruck and more of a hiker bash? What's that supposed to mean?
And since there isn't even a venue nor a date set in stone, what should I do
with your input, since you have no intentions of attending?
It's aim is for people planning on hiking the western trails, specifically
the PCT and CDT, before they leave, but is open to anyone here and AT hikers
already on the trail. I may have suggested Febuary, but there was something
about the FL people doing something then and I didn't want another conflict.
As I said, I'm open to suggestions from those that plan on attending.
>
> Sorta like the details of the GARUCK are not up to you,
> especially since you didn't and I guess won't again, attend?
#### I already said that. I only suggested venues and the particular
problems they could pose and the way of getting around them. I've had the
opportunity of staying of staying at all of them, including Amicalola Falls,
so I think I know what I'm talking about.
> Bottom line is that there is gonna be another Ruck!!! another
> chance for the folks who want to get together and talk trail (s)
> and teach and learn from each other and hug and meet and eat.
> WOOOOOHOOOOOOO!!!! It's a GOOD THING!!!
> (s'cuse me Martha) <grin>
Yeah, it's a good thing!
By the way, thanks for all the good times at the PARUCK (but get your stories
straight).
Sly
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