Fwd: [at-l] Wow:-)

[spiriteagle99@hotmail.com (Jim and/or Ginny Owen)]

Noctturne@aol.com wrote:
>
>That was quite a response.  Thank you all:-)

First, I'll say welcome to the zoo.  I think you've already found out that 
it's a hiker-friendly place.

I don't normally talk about gear, but occasionally I get motivated - and 
this is one of those times.  What I generally talk about is the things that 
actually make a difference between finishing the Trail and not - try 
http://trailwise.circumtech.com  There's thruhiking information under both 
the Thruhiking Papers and the Page List.  More than a few people have come 
back and said that it's been useful.


>To answer some questions, so far I have a little tent from Wal-Mart that I 
>have used and abused for years, and it has held up better than my mothers 
>Eureka.  It's just big enough for two people and packs, and it's warm.

The first question that comes to mind is - how heavy?  We've seen people 
start thruhikes with 10# tents - and it's a lot easier to fix that problem 
before you leave home than while you're on the Trail.  Yeah - it IS a 
problem.  One of the most common mistakes people make is to carry too much 
weight.  It's also one of the major reasons why 90% of those who start the 
Trail don't finish it.

Just for comparison, Ginny and I use a Nomad 2for2. It's big enough for 2 of 
us, we can fit the packs in if necessary (we usually don't), it's got a 
vestibule that can be used for cooking if necessary - and it weighs in at 
less than 3# complete with poles, stakes and ground cloth.


>Nick (the boyfriend) has an external frame old pack in his garage that I 
>haven't gotten a good look at yet, but if it's not moldy I'm going to give 
>it a test run.

External isn't bad - old isn't bad - some of the older externals were 
lighter and better built than anything that's built today.  Even moldy isn't 
fatal if it's not dry rotted.  Both Ginny and I used externals on the AT. 
The questions are: Does it fit? Will it hold your gear? and will it last for 
2000 miles?  Nothing else matters.


>I found a little contained fire thingy in my Cabela's catalog that's only 
>17 bucks, and eliminates the cost and weight of fuel, so I'm all for it.

Not sure what you found, but the only thing that actually eliminates the 
cost and/or weight of fuel is the Zip stove - and it has its own problems. 
Our partner on the CDT started with a Zip - it lasted a week in the wet and 
the snow before he replaced it with a whisperlite.  The Esbit stove is 
lightweight, but expensive to use over the long haul.  And the fuel isn't as 
light as you might think either.  Canister stoves will work, but for the 
Trail you'd have to mail fuel - and that "can" be a hassle.  Especially if 
your mail drop doesn't show up on time.  Alcohol is great - for one person 
who doesn't do a lot of cooking.  For a couple it generally doesn't work all 
that well.

Whatever you use - try it for at least a couple weekends before you start 
the Trail with it.  Again - it's easier to fix problems before you start 
than after you're on the Trail.  And it IS a problem if you don't like your 
stove.

We did the AT with whisperlites - we did the CDT and the PCT with a 
Whisperlite International.  If white gas isn't available, the International 
works just fine with Regular unleaded.  Cost?  Lets see - in New mexico I 
filled up for 17 cents.  Not bad for a week of cooking.  At 50 cents per 
tablet for Esbit, it would have been considerably more expensive.  Even 
alcohol is more expensive.  In fact, just the batteries for the Zip are more 
expensive than that.

>There's also a PUR Guide in there for $80, and  PUR Hiker for $60.  Anyone 
>know anything about these?  They aren't very heavy and don't look big.

We've used a number of filters - but we ended up with Pur Hiker for the CDT 
and PCT - and if it'll handle those, the AT is a piece of cake.  I'll agree 
with Cliff - chlorine bleach will work fine - as long as you don't REALLY 
need it.  In other words, as long as there are no nasty critters in the 
water.  If there are, it doesn't work worth spit.


>Also, in my *exstensive* walking experience I've found that trail running 
>shoes work very well once I have my old pair of boxing wraps around both 
>ankles (inventive of me, huh?  my boxing training is good for something 
>after all) so unless there's a really good reason why I shouldn't do that 
>for the warm part of the hike, that's the shoe plan.

Shoes are an individual thing - we used Sundowners for the AT and then for 
years and thousands of miles afterwards. When we got to the CDT I switched 
to another leather boot and had MAJOR problems, switched to  Sundowners for 
1000 miles and then switched to a mid-weight fabric boot.  Used them for the 
next 1400 miles and then again on the PCT.
A lot of PCT hikers use tennis shoes, sneakers, running shoes, trail shoes, 
whatever - I tried them and the ate my feet (literally) - but a lot of 
people love them.  Running shoes are a whole lot cheaper than boots if 
they'll work for you.  But there's a caveat ---- you need to GO LIGHT if 
you're gonna wear them.

>What else...um...I don't have bags for either of us, but I plan to check 
>Play It Again Sports and ebay, and all the local yard sales and 
>classifieds.  Any other good plces to look?  I have no problem with used 
>gear that's in good condition.

Now you've got what's called a "conflicting requirement".  If you look in 
those places you'll rarely find lightweight gear.  That means your pack will 
be heavier than it needs to be.  That means you'll probably need to wear 
heavier (and more expensive) boots.  Of course you could take the chance 
that you won't damage your feet by wearing the light weight shoes with the 
heavier pack. But if you lose that bet, that kind of damage tends to be 
permanent - and ultimately much more expensive than the boots.  And it could 
cost you your thruhike as well.

The choices - 1/ heavy, expensive boots to go with the generally heavy 
inexpensive gear from second hand sources or 2/ or lightweight, less 
expensive footwear with more expensive, lighter gear/pack or 3/ a mid-weight 
approach where both the gear and footwear are in the mid-range of both price 
and weight.

We've found that the third option works best for us.  Others prefer other 
methods.  It's always your choice - but you also have to live with the 
consequences.

A couple points that need to be added here - most people use up more than 
one pair of boots/footwear on a long hike.  For Ginny, a pair of mid-weight 
boots will last 1500 miles.  For me, they'll last 800 to 1000 miles.  There 
are those who believe in HEAVY boots that'll last a lifetime (like Limmers). 
  They're welcome to them - those boots cause knee, ankle and hip problems 
for a LOT of people. I have friends who have worn them and lived to regret 
it - I have friends who still wear them and love them.  I wore them when I 
was a teenager - I don't have to wear them now - and I won't.

One final point - there are those who don't like the newer gear - like 
fleece?  A good friend spent years refusing to buy any - until someone gave 
him a fleece jacket.  That was 10 years ago - he hasn't been seen without a 
fleece jacket since.  Those who don't like it, generally haven't tried it.

Hmmm - along the way here, Weary wrote:
>The things I wanted to buy almost never came in a size suitable for lasting 
>just until the next resupply point, or in the lightest weight container, so 
>I tended to carry more than I needed and heavier than I needed.

That's what you use a drift box (bounce box) for - to mail ahead things that 
you don't want right now - but will want later.  Like extra food, clothes, 
etc. It makes your pack lighter - and the hike more enjoyable.


>As far as money on the trail...I've heard that re-supplying along the way 
>is very expensive.  Postage aside, wouldn't it be cheaper to drop?

Depends on a lot of factors - if you're paying postage to the West Coast or 
the Rockies, it gets right expensive.  $20 to $40 per box can become a 
significant expense.  Kahley can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think we 
used 4 maildrops for the PCT - there wasn't a lot of food in any of them.  
Other than that, we bought locally and sent "local" maildrops when necessary 
(on the PCT, it IS necessary).  On the AT, maildrops may be reasonable if 
you're mailing from Atlanta to NC, but sending that same maildrop to Maine 
will, again, get real expensive.
Contrary to popular opinion, postage ain't cheap.

One of the considerations here for me is that hikers have a reputation for 
being cheap, stingy, frugal, whatever - because they contribute  very little 
to the local economy.  We've found that one of the fastest ways to get 
people to appreciate those dirty, smelly hikers is to let them see you 
spending money - locally.  And frankly, I'd rather support the local economy 
than the Postal Service.  YMMV

>Besides that...I guess I could put my stuff in storage...what's left of it 
>by next summer.  I'm really starting to feel trapped by my things and most 
>of them are no good to me anymore, anyway.

Storage isn't that expensive - and one consideration is that you may need or 
want some of that stuff when you finish the Trail.  Be careful which bridges 
you burn - whatever happens, you can't stay out there forever. Some people 
have tried it - and forever generally turns out to be a couple years, then 
they burn out and have to come back to "civilisation" anyway. If nothing 
else, they run out of money.


>I don't plan to spend any nights in town along the way, so that will save 
>cash.

I've heard this before - and sometimes it works. But mostly it doesn't - for 
a variety of reasons.  If you need town stops and haven't budgeted for them, 
you might find youself rapidly running out of money in Pennsylvania.  It 
happens to a LOT of people.  There are those who have run out of money in 
Monson and had to go home.

So why would you "need" town stops?  Hmmm - how about medical problems?  
Blizzards in the mountains?  or just finding out that it's not what you 
expected it to be out there?  or to be with friends?  or ...... any of a 
dozen other reasons.


>I don't have any family or friends to stay with when I get home, though.  I 
>guess I'll get to that when I get to that:-)

Good attitude - ask Mags about it.  None of us know what'll happen in the 
future - so some of us solve the problems when they become problems rather 
than solving problems that aren't.

>So, Raziel (snake) is my only issue.  I'll work that one out, too, as I 
>always do.
>
>And again...wow:-)  Thank you very much for all your help, you're really 
>helping to make a lifelong dream come true for Nick and I:-)
>
>- Victoria

Hang around - ask questions - take EVERYTHING with a grain of salt - make 
your own decisions - plan your own hike - and then hike your own hike.  Good 
luck.

Walk softly,
Jim



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