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Us and Them (was - Re: [at-l] a peck of pickle problems)
Very good to meet you Jim. I am Carol aka artduck or
duckbuddy. The name came from my granddaughter. She
is the little duck, I am the big duck and together we
are duckbuddies. I work as an executive director of
an arts council, thus it morphed into artduck.
Before the arts council I ran a humane society shelter
for ten years, before that domestic violence programs.
I married young, had two children, was married for
over 20 years when I discovered he was a child
molester. You wouldn't guess it to look at him. No one
really wants to go there.
I started backpacking with my father and two brothers
as a child. My mother was allergic to the outdoors.
I lived in Europe for several years before returning
to the states. I hiked the AT after coming back to
the states as sort of a welcome home trip in the early
80's. Haven't much visited the trail much since then,
though I have mountain bike around the Pisgah now and
again. Been mostly hiking in other terrians and other
states. I had a foray into Canada two years ago and
did some desert hiking after that. It was fantastic.
I hike as a way of keeping sane. I took up mountain
biking after being diagnosed with SLE. I can do that
everyday whereas I have to wait for the weekends or
sometimes longer to hike. I walk every night with one
of my three girls now. The six year old can go four
miles a night without a single complaint, I wish I
could say that for the 23 year old. Given my 17 y/o
topics of conversations, I can't quite call it
complaining but...
I live with a soccer angel now. He has taken up
biking and I started coaching my granddaughter's
soccer team with him. Our first date was hiking
around the Eno. We discovered we walk well together.
It is good to meet the other members of the list.
--- Jim and/or Ginny Owen <spiriteagle99@hotmail.com>
wrote:
> >Weary wrote:
> >FLATers thinks my comment: "<<Golly. You guys
> aren't very helpful.>>"
> >signifies I think of the group as you guys, not us
> guys and that may be why
> >me and RnR are not welcome, and besides her
> minister preached a sermon on
> >the subject.
> >
> >I think FLATers may have lost the context.
>
>
> Weary, RnR - and the list -
> I think Weary may be right, but it's not surprising
> -- I lose the context a
> lot in these things too :-)
>
> On the other hand, I think she's a mind reader, too.
> I woke up a few
> nights ago at 0300 with much the same thought --
> that Weary and RnR have
> considered themselves and/or have been considered by
> the list to be
> "outsiders". That ain't the way it's supposed to
> happen around here. If
> you've been paying attention, there have been (I
> think) 6 or 8 new people
> either join the list or come out of lurk mode (one
> never knows which way
> that happens) over the last couple months - and
> they've generally been
> welcomed. I'm not gonna get into "what's the
> difference?" mode. What I AM
> gonna do is what I've done in several places on
> several lists over the last
> 5 or 6 years - try to change gears.
>
> One of the basic maxims of war/combat is that it's
> easier to kill someone if
> you've de-humanized them. That's why the 'enemy' is
> always viewed as
> baby-killing, flesh-eating, grandmother-raping
> monsters, while your side is
> always viewed as the righteous, upstanding, moral
> Defender of Democracy and
> Champion of the Faith. Or words to that effect.
> Some will think that's
> funny - but it's not. It's been standard
> indoctrination for combat troops
> in every army that's been fielded for at least the
> last 10 thousand years.
> On both sides.
>
> So - what does this have to do with at-l?
>
> For those to whom it's not obvious - RnR (and to a
> lesser degree, Weary) has
> demonized the list - and to one degree or another,
> the list has demonized
> them. The result has been the Krapola that we've
> lived with for the last
> couple months - and (I believe) NOBODY is
> particularly happy with it.
>
> So what to do about it? For one thing, there's been
> some sentiment that RnR
> and/or Weary should leave the list. I don't - and
> have never - subscribed
> to that view. If we can't absorb two more differing
> viewpoints and come to
> some reasonable accomodation with them, then what
> does that say about us as
> a group? I don't like that message.
>
> I said several months ago that RnR, regardless of
> his origin, problems or
> attitude, was now OUR problem child. He still is.
> He IS one of us whether
> anyone likes it or not. If Trailplace ever really
> comes up again, he may
> disappear - but I'm not gonna count on that (either
> Trailplace coming up -
> or RnR's disappearance)- and you shouldn't either.
>
> In any case, one of the ways to short-circuit the
> kind of "war" that's been
> dumped on at-l is to "humanize" both sides. So I'm
> gonna propose that we go
> back to basics - and introduce ourselves. Those who
> know who and what you
> are generally are just a little more reluctant to
> shoot at you. (But don't
> count on that either.)
>
> The beauty of what this list has been for the last
> several years is that
> many of us have become friends - regardless of
> political, religious,
> biological, olfactory (remember - thruhikers are
> stinky) or other
> differences. And the flame wars have (or at least
> had) nearly disappeared
> except for the occasional appearance of Baltimore
> Jack or other transplants.
> We got "soft" - and it's sometimes well to be
> reminded that the rest of
> the world isn't as friendly as we've learned to be
> with each other. As the
> old maxim goes - "You can have peace or you can have
> freedom - don't count
> on having both".
>
> So - I'm gonna start this thing - I'll append a
> modified version of a
> personal history that I recently sent to some people
> that I haven't seen in
> 45 years. Some of you might recognize some of the
> phrasing.
>
> So - Who will join me?
>
> But don't get the idea that I'm making this a
> one-way street here. It has
> to flow from both sides or it won't work. Contrary
> to the ignorance that's
> being taught in some places today - wars CAN and
> very often ARE started by
> one party without the consent of those who suddenly
> find themselves
> "invaded".
>
> Weary has given us a lot of information about
> himself - that's one of the
> reasons I asked all those questions of Weary - his
> answers told me a lot
> about him - about what kind of person he is - and
> about what he believes.
> He and I will likely never agree on some things, but
> based on his answers -
> and on the fact that he actually DID give reasonble
> and straight answers - I
> believe I can respect his views and agree to
> disagree with him - without
> getting into a flame war over every detail. And
> probably learn to like him
> - but let's not get too far ahead of ourselves here
> :-)
>
> RnR has given the list "some" information about
> himself - but I'm not sure
> how much of it has gotten through the fog to anyone,
> so I'd "suggest" that
> he try to give us a "formal" introduction. But, as
> always, that's his
> decision.
>
> Walk softly,
> Jim
>
>
******************************************************************************
>
> For anyone who’s interested - I was born at a very
> early age in Pennsylvania
> and my parents moved (and dragged me with them)
> about 10 times in the next
> 11 years (I was an Army brat). We settled in PA
> after my father died in
> Korea. Then I started hiking the AT with the Boy
> Scouts.
>
> After High School graduation I went to Wilkes
> College for a year, then to
> Penn State where I graduated as an Aeronautical
> Engineer. A hitch in the
> Marine Corps followed, after which hiking and
> hunting weren't things I much
> cared for. I went to work for General Electric at
> Goddard Space Flight
> Center in Greenbelt, MD. Over the next 30 years I
> got married, raised three
> kids, a couple dogs, a herd of goldfish and a gaggle
> of cats; worked for a
> lot of years designing, building and operating
> spacecraft and ground control
> systems; spent a lot of time in various martial arts
> dojos, and even more
> time running a part-time wholesale business. I had
> the house, cars, etc. As
> Zorba said it (for those who remember such things) –
> I had "the whole
> disaster". Now my ex has all that and we're both
> happier for it.
>
> I started hiking again after my wife left in 1990,
> then quit my job and
> thruhiked the Appalachian Trail in ‘92. My “Trail
> name” was Bald Eagle.
> It’s appropriate.
>
> After we came back from that adventure, Ginny and I
> kept on hiking and
>
=== message truncated ===
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