Re[2]: [at-l] Failing the List requirements

[Bob Cummings <ellen@clinic.net> (Bob Cummings)]

"...This 'debate' business, with its implied 'winner' and
'loser', seems to be bringing out the worst in all of us. "

Debates are good. Name calling as part of a debate is counterproductive. I have no idea why we got
into name calling. I suspect, though I know it will be denied with great fervor, that some debaters
in the course of their discussion praised Wingfoot. Quite obviously many here are refugees from
ATML. And despite the denials, Dan's name and everything associated with him raises red flags. This
is unfortunate. I've tried with very limited success to get Wingfoot to relax and lighten up. But he
is a true believer. Someone who devotes his life to a cause -- and in the process destroys much of
what he seeks to achieve.

But what is important in all this is the trail. There are conflicting forces at work on the trail.
Some seek a wild as possible trail. Some seek an easy as possible trail. And there are a thousand
intermediate positions.

I, and those who believe as I do, will push for a wild trail -- or as wild as humanly possible
trail in the 21st century in a world that has twice as many people as can be supported on a
sustainable basis. That means no cell phones. No ATVs. No advertising. No mountain bikes. No nothing, except
maybe those things that prevent damage to the trail environment -- such as shelters ( they
concentrate use and keep other sections more wild) and privies ( a necessary evil because of health,
aesthetic and environmental issues.) Others have other perspectives. But it is critical that people
genuinely concerned with the trail -- as opposed to those who seek only to chat with congenial souls
-- contribute to this debate.

RnR contributes important thoughts to this debate. But he, like me, makes the mistake of praising
ATML, which turns folks off. He compounds his error by using big words that most don't understand
precisely -- including RnR. Some dislike him because they sense he is talking above them. Others
don't like him because they sense some of his words have no real meaning in the context of what he
is attempting to say.

But wise people will try to rise above this and listen to the important things he and others are saying.

Go for it Sloetoes. Tell me again (but with more precision this time) why you think I should leave.
And you, wise Kahley, why (if that is your position) I should stay.

BTW. Regardless of the answers, I'll probably stick around anyway.

Weary