[at-l] Re: The Truth

[spiriteagle99@hotmail.com (Jim and/or Ginny Owen)]

RoksnRoots@aol.com wrote:
>     OB made a glaring mistake on something I said and banished me from his 
>mailbox. He thought I was calling the List a group of Nazis [ :) ]. No, 
>that was a sarcasm, saying that those who follow a truer to original Trail 
>purpose have actually done great achievements for the Trail.


I'm not gonna comment on your feelings or loyalties - one of the central 
parts of my version of HYOH (in other words - my life) is that feelings are 
ALWAYS valid - but that acting on feelings rather than facts is foolishness. 
  But that isn't the point there - the point is that in this medium 
"sarcasm" is "ANGER".  Period.  It simply doesn't translate as anything 
else.  Therefore, your sarcasm was taken seriously.

The Nazi thing is something I barely remember - the volume of information 
that I process every day precludes my retention of anything that I don't 
consider important - and I never took that seriously.  I remember other 
things that I believe are far more important - but that's not the point here 
either.



<snip>

>     I have received private e*mails from List members telling me that
>most see clearly what I am saying and that I will never get through to 
>posters who aren't listening simply because of their anti*WF feelings.

Possibly some on at-l would fit that description - but as a generalization, 
that proposition fails.  Many of us know precisely who and what WF is, how 
he operates and where his failings are.  When you ask us to support his 
efforts with regard to the Trail, knowing that the stability of his efforts 
is ephemeral at best, you're asking us to trust him.  You're asking us to 
put our time, energy and possibly money with someone who has, IMO, 
repeatedly proved himself untrustworthy.  You're asking us to ignore the 
Biblical injunction against "building on shifting sands".  Do you remember 
the story of the frog and the scorpion?  We've been there - we've been stung 
- it ain't gonna happen again.

But my dislike and distrust of WF doesn't get between me and what needs to 
be done for or to the Trail.  Your insistence that support for WF is 
essential to the survival of the Trail (OK - so I overstated it - but not by 
much) is not a viable argument.  You may sell it to those who are ignorant, 
but not to those of us who know him. The Trail will survive with or without 
WF - I'd much prefer to give my support to ALDHA and ATC.  They'll at least 
be here for a while.  It's August - where is Trailplace?

Now lets talk about your message - although I believe it's not exactly 
right, I've never said your message was wrong either.  I HAVE said that you 
apparently can't express it coherently.  I HAVE said that some of your 
"facts" were infinitely questionable (I know - the terms I used were 
somewhat more blunt).  And I have said that your logic was less than 
rigorous.  I believe much of that still remains true, as it is for ALL of us 
at one time or another on one topic or another.  But at no time have I 
suggested that you should leave the list, or asked Ryan to remove you.  
When, and if, you can coherently present your arguments, I may or may not 
have some'at to say about it.  But be careful what you say about or 
attribute to MacKaye - he was NOT what you've imagined him to be.  I've 
probably read more of MacKaye's writings than you have - and I probably 
understand him better than you ever will.  He comes of a generation that I 
understand because I was raised by those of that generation. And I'm an 
engineer - which is considerably closer in mindset to MacKaye than you can 
imagine.  My son, in fact, IS a land planner - and at the moment we're 
performing the same job, although at different levels.  If you want to make 
a reasonable case, then use other sources.  Otherwise, I'll eat your lunch - 
inexorably, impersonally and unavoidably.  I AM sometimes Chun the 
Unavoidable ;-)


>     It is simply too easy to label everything that humbly suggests a 
>greater AT purpose as "elitism" and shut it out. In this case, the 
>protagonists have repeated exactly what they accuse WF of in a reverse
>way.

What I remember (keeping in mind that I've already admitted to a faulty 
memory) is that you advocated what sounded like a version of the classic 
Jardine hiking pyramid with thruhikers at the top of the heap.  That's a 
form of elitism.  I don't necessarily object to the elitism, but you've got 
the pyramid upside down.  Thruhikers may be the least numerous, but they're 
also the bottom of the pyramid in many (most?) respects.  That's MY opinion. 
  And I don't generally get a lot of argument about it - even from 
thruhikers.

Another form of elitism is embodied in those who claim to possess the "one 
and only true way" for ANYTHING.  This one is particularly obnoxious - and 
dumb - because there is no such thing in any area of human endeavor.  Kinda 
like mathematics - there are ALWAYS AT LEAST 3 WAYS to solve any problem.  
That applies to human activities and problems as well.  Course, there's 
always some damfool who'll believe in the "one and only true way".  There's 
always some damfool who'll believe ANYTHING.  Generally speaking, they 
comprise 10 to 11% of the population.

The "one and only true way" thing is REALLY dumb when applied to a 
population (the Trail community) that's already done (whatever - 
thruhiking?) at least 1723 ways.  Then it's just laughable - except to the 
ignorant.

I'll leave you to think about how that one applies to your worldview - and 
that of WF.  I just ran out of time.  Besides, I've headed down a rabbit 
trail here and it's time to quit before I get in trouble.
Dang - too late - again  :-)

Walk softly,
Jim





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