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[at-l] Warning! WF Post



Hi Kahley,

I was on AT-L before there was a Trailplace, and I used to be on both AT-L
and ATML.  I remember, and I have a little first hand experience of how
touchy Dan is.  I'm not defending Dan at all... My point is a simple one:
why is Dan Bruce an issue?  Why should we care if Dan calls us "jackasses"?
If you called me a 20 year old hunk it wouldn't make me one (more's the
pity).  Do I care if a street bum calls me an asshole when I don't give him
money?  No, I don't.  And I don't care if Dan Bruce calls me a jackass
either.  He has no power over me and he never will have any.

I don't think that not obsessing about Dan Bruce is like not mentioning that
"cotton kills": Dan Bruce never killed anybody.  I don't think that not
attacking him in public is like appeasement in the 1930s: Dan Bruce is not
going to invade Poland.

I'll stand by my point: the Dan Bruce that gets talked about on AT-L is
much, much bigger than the Dan Bruce who lives in Hot Springs.

You said:

> As to the frequency of his name in a subject line, let's remember this
current
> spat began when he called us all jackasses....mean spirited but too short
> to be considered a diatribe, I guess.

I say: so what.  If I was in a position to help Dan Bruce I would, but I'm
not, and I'm not going to worry about him.

> Why is it no one ever calls him out on his confrontational attitude?

People on this list do constantly.  Has it done any good?  Has it helped
anybody here?  Has it helped Dan Bruce? I don't think he can let himself
feel how hurtful his behavior is.  And almost no one would respond
positively to the kind of posts that have been showing up on AT-L.

So why do people post about Dan?  The posts don't affect him, so they aren't
really "for" him either.  They are for "us" and, in a very real sense, are
about "us" too.

> Why does no one ever condemn his insistence on a division?

People on this list do constantly.  Again, people will listen to Dan until
he drives them away.  There is nothing that you, or I, or anyone else can do
about that.  The best we can do is make a good place here, and fixating on
Dan Bruce's failings doesn't do that.

> Do posts defending AT-L or questioning his name calling ever show up on
TP.

Nope.  And they won't either.  That isn't in my power to change, and so I
chose to focus my attention elsewhere.

> I don't think_we_ are the ones who need  an enemy..........

Dan's paranoia is Dan's problem.  I think Dan needs an enemy to justify his
paranoia.  I don't think the AT-L needs an enemy, and I wish we'd stop
constructing ourselves one.

I'm very fond of the old "Serenity Prayer":

    God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change
    Courage to change the things I can
    And the wisdom to know the difference.

Take care.

-- Jim

----- Original Message -----
From: "kahley" <kahley7@ptd.net>
To: "Jim Mayer" <jmayer@rochester.rr.com>; <at-l@backcountry.net>
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2001 6:26 PM
Subject: Re: [at-l] Warning! WF Post


> At 11:07 AM 6/8/01 -0400, Jim Mayer wrote:
> >But
> >when people get together in groups, and particularly when those groups
are
> >similar or compete in some way, there is a tendency to look for an
"Enemy".
> >Having an Enemy is very convenient, for it neatly divides the world into
> >"us" and "them".  Opposing the Enemy provides a common cause.  The mere
> >existence of the Enemy helps to suppress differences that threaten the
> >cohesiveness of the group.
>
> Sorry Jim..I don't buy this at all.  First, it wasn't always like
that.....
> them and us.
> There used to be no penalty for wandering happily from ATML to AT-L.......
dan
> put a stop to that.  If there is animosity towards ATMLers, I have never
> felt it from the AT-L
> folks.  I take that back.......sadly, R&R's first appearances here were
> dismissed because
> he was an ATMLer.   I hope that is an exception and not a trend cause if
> you are right
> that would be totally uncool.
>
> Until dan put a stop to it, all lister fuctions, like group pics and
> lunches at the Gathering and TDZ
> and the Ruck were always posted to both lists.  Back then, it wasn't an
> AT-L photo but a "lister"
> photo.  No one was ever tossed from AT-L because they continued to post
> to ATML, but the opposite is true.  I miss the good old days when it
didn't
> matter which
> list you frequented.........back when we were all just hikers with
computers.
>
> As to the frequency of his name in a subject line, let's remember this
current
> spat began when he called us all jackasses....mean spirited but too short
> to be
> considered a diatribe, I guess.  Why is it no one ever calls him out on
his
> confrontational attitude?  Why does no one ever condemn his insistence on
a
> division?
> Do posts defending AT-L or questioning his name calling ever show up on
TP.
>
> I don't think_we_ are the ones who need  an enemy..........
>