[at-l] light weight tarp ?

[jeff@rixco.com (Jeff Beaumont)]

Jerry wrote:
 
>> IMO an 5x8 tarp is too small to be a serious shelter in bad weather .
>> (unless you wear it like a burrito  :<)
> I'm not sure if you have much, if any, tarp camping experience

You've got me there. OTOH- I based much of my opinion on Thru-Hikers I have
talked to, a friend who is an ultra-light fanatic and lives in Idaho (and
gets out a lot) and Colin Fletchers books.

> but a 5x8 tarp 
> is a very comfortable shelter and offers more room than most one person tents.

It depends how you pitch it and how large you are, and how bad the weather
is. I am 6'2". In a bad storm that means that my feet and my head are less
than a foot from the ends of the tarp. (FWIW-I don't fit in a typical 2 man
tent. My wife  and 70 lbs. dog and I use a Sierra Designs Clip 3 most of the
time) I also like to be able to sit up, and if you pitch an 8x5 tarp to
allow this and yet keep 3 edges close to the ground, I would be hanging out
of the end! 
I believe my ultra-light buddy goes home in really bad weather. On the AT
you might opt to stay in a shelter under stormy conditions. Me, I would
prefer the freedom of shelter-free camping in all weather.
This year I (going solo for a week) hope to try using a tarp "Fletcher
style" (read his "Day In the Rain" chapter in "The Complete Walker 3") where
you wrap one end of the tarp  (the end pointed towards the prevailing winds)
under you to act as a ground cloth.

> I have used a 5x8 in more than one Utah deep winter snow storm. The request
> was for a "small tarp to use as a wind break or something to cook under in bad
> weather".  A 5x8 would more than fill the bill.

Good point.

>> If an 8x10 is 14oz. Then guess what, that is 2 oz. less than a pound.
>> 2 oz. may be worth saving, but it is certainly not significantly less than a
>> pound. The original post said a one pound tarp was WAY too heavy for him.
> True, but beside the point as we would obviously be talking about the 5x8
> which is LESS THAN HALF the weight. That would certainly be significant in my
> book.

Yes that is very significant. I agree.

>> Last time I checked most if not all of the Campmor tarps were over a pound.
> Then you might want to check again. The Campmor 6x8 weighs 9.2 oz making it
> just 1.2 oz over HALF THE WEIGHT.

FWIW- I have been checking the Campmor tarp section for years and last night
was the first time I saw their ultralight tarps. I believe they have been
selling them for less than a year. You will note that almost all of their
other tarps are at or over a pound.

>> How much do the Integral Designs tarps?
> That, of course, depends on which one your asking about. The 5x8 weighs 7 oz.
> which is more than HALF THE WEIGHT.
> 
> The point of diminishing returns is
>> where it takes increasingly larger amounts of money to make increasingly
>> small gains (or in this case losses...in weight).
>> Jeff
> At $55.00 the silnylon tarp isn't significantly more expensive than a regular
> ripstop nylon tarp.

I believe they are exactly twice as expensive. To me that's significant.
I'll check again. 
OTOH- for a Thru-Hike I don't think $55 is a big deal for a shelter.
Though I'd opt for the $65    8x10.

>In this case HALF THE WEIGHT would be less weight, not
> more.  If you are going to use this rig for an AT thru hike then it would be
> at least 8 oz x 2180 miles, of course. This would equal 17,440 oz or 1090
> pounds over the course of the entire thru hike. That would be a very non-small
> gain. 
 
8 oz is a very significant amount of weight when keeping your pack weight
low.  I am in complete agreement there.
OTOH, while I am not a physicist,  I believe
>This would equal 17,440 oz or 1090 pounds over the course of the entire thru
hike
is not a relevant number. Sounds scary, but on a day to day basis I don't
think it means much.
 If you want to figure the BTU's that it would take to carry 8 oz for 2180
miles, divide it by the days on the trail and then add to your load the
weight of the food necessary to provide that many calories, then you might
have something. 

>I hope this helps clear up your misconceptions about light weight tarps.
> If you have any other questions I'd be glad to help you better understand them
> and how to use them.... ;o)

Thanks. You certainly brought some products to my attention that I was not
aware of.

How do you pitch your tarp? How low to the ground do get the edges in stormy
weather? How do you avoid ground run off soaking your stuff?

Jeff