[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]

[at-l] Drilling & trees, etc...

This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

------_=_NextPart_000_01C077C2.6A591E40
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"

Before I get too deep into this. I'll state my qualifications for making my
comments. You can then decide what  weight they bare on the discussion.

I've got a degree in Forest Management from OSU (That's Oregon State home of
the Beavers ranked #5 in football for the first time). While it's been
sometime since I've been active in forestry, not everything has changed.

Charles > 3)  The USFS was formed to manage the use of our
 forests for lumber production.  Trees are our only
 truly renewable resource and if properly managed,
 our forests can sustain us with wood for our homes
 and for paper indefinitely.  <

Ben responds >> This is just flat out wrong. With ever increasing
population and consumption of products and land,
"indefinitely" ain't gonna happen. Look at the
dwindling diameter of the trees coming out of the
forests and compare that to historical photos. Look
at all the laminate products to create bigger lumber
and the scarcity and expense of large dimensional
lumber. At what point are we going to be cutting
toothpick sized saplings and still calling it
sustainable. Managing production without managing
consumption is a no-winner.  Now if you want to
talk about straw bale construction and paper made
of other non-wood fibers, then we can talk about
reduction and recycling of agricultural wastes and
getting closer to the "indefinitely" fantasy that
always seems to crop up when talking about "renewable"
resources. <<

Comment: 
Trees are a renewable resource and can be grown on sustainable cuts.  A
sustainable cut is one where a known volume of trees can be harvested from a
given acreage indefinitely. The amount depends upon numerous factors
including growth rate, species maturities, harvest techniques, etc. An
example would be, take a 1000 acre parcel of trees with a 20 year maturity.
You can harvest 50 acres each year indefinitely.

Will there always be enough trees to sustain our needs or will our
population outstrip our resources? That's a fair question. I don't have the
answer, conservation can play a big key to making best use of our resources.
Modern logging and milling operations brought on by the timber crisis of the
early 80's has made both those process much more efficient. 

Also there are numerous estimates that the number of trees in the United
States today is greater today than when Columbus landed. That may seem hard
to swallow unless you consider the great fires that used to roam the Western
forest on an annual basis. Much of the problems we're currently encountering
with fire like last summers fires in Montana is due to our success in
fighting forest fires and the resultant build up in biomass. 

As to the size of trees harvested, you should take note that large piece of
dimensional lumber is not nearly as strong as a well engineered piece of
laminated lumber. A single laminated I beam is stronger, lighter, cheaper,
span longer distances and use 50% less wood fiber than a piece of solid
lumber the same size. There's no reason to believe we won't continue to make
further advances in wood technology in the coming years.

Charles >> Even though Georgia's plantings are down, a billion trees
 a year are still being planted in this country - mostly pines and mostly
for 
lumber and paper.  These billion trees take about 20 years to be harvested. 
 These billion trees reduce the need to go into new  USFS or private timber 
areas but do not eliminate it.   <<

Ben responds >> Think about this. Is a row on row tree plantation,
sprayed with herbicide to reduce competition with
the primary species, a forest or is it a crop? Is
that a living forest supporting a diversity of
species or is that a field to be harvested exclusively
for human needs? Think about this and maybe you'll
see that not one iota of monospecies tree plantation
is the same as a functioning forest. <<

Comment:

Crop rotation varies from species to species and region to region. Up here
in the Pacific Northwest, trees are generally harvested on a 60 to 80 year
rotation cycle. That's when they have reached a DBH (Diameter Breast Height)
of 14 to 16 inches. With a wood density growth rate of about 8 rings per
inch (1 ring is a years growth). This yields good wood for structural timber
used in housing. 

In the Southeast with its 20 year harvest cycle, most of the wood is used
for pulp, fiber board and other uses. The quality isn't good enough for
structural usage or plywood. Another reason for its quick harvest is due to
relative ease of harvesting. One would assume using less paper would reduce
harvest needs. Well yes and no depending upon what type of paper you're
referring to. Southern Pulp goes into cardboard boxes, kraft paper like
shopping bags and newsprint. Good quality paper used for books, magazines,
etc. comes from hard woods. It most likely comes out of the North East.
There used to be a great paper mill right on the AT where it crossed one of
the rivers in New York. I don't know if it's still there.

The PNW still leads the nation in the most productive forest. That is the
increase in biomass on an annual basis. However, the steep mountain slopes
makes harvest considerably more costly.

Is it a just a crop? That sort of conjures up visions of a sterile
environment surrounded by high electrified barbwire fences bearing signs
reading "Keep Out - Trees Only Zone". 

There are good examples where a monoculture is not good. A pest could invade
and whip out an entire stand of trees. In areas like the Southeast natural
canopy is mixed species, large zones of single species could prove a
problem. Even dumb foresters like me recognize that's a potential problem.
So often steps are done to minimize the problem. Just because there is a
single species of trees, it doesn't necessarily follow that no other animal
species will survive. 

In the much of the West large areas of single species tress are common. This
due to the effects of fire and the natural progression of plants that grow
during the recovery phase. 



Ron
---------------------------------------------
Ron "Fallingwater" Moak 
www.fallingwater.com/pct2000



------_=_NextPart_000_01C077C2.6A591E40
Content-Type: application/ms-tnef
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
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------_=_NextPart_000_01C077C2.6A591E40--