[at-l] Re: Gear list in reverse

I can't speak to the Smokies, but here is what I would take on a winter trip up here. This means I'm
expecting snow and temperatures that can dip below 0*F at night without much difficulty. Daytime
temperatures would generally be in the teens though colder is not uncommon. This is going to be
off-the-cuff.

Stepheson 2RSLD tent <www.warmlite.com>. 
    This is an exceptional 4-season tent and only weighs (w/ground sheet) about 55 ounces. It has 40
square feet (actually a bit more) of interior space. But, it is expensive! I think it is worth every
penny of the $550.00 I paid for it. One of the best features of this tent is that it is considreably
warmer in it than the ambient temperature. While many tents will give you around 10*F extra warmth
the Stephenson is generally closer to 20*F.

Sleeping:
    Western Mountaineering Iroquouis and, currently,, my ancient Marmot bag. I can either put the
Iroquois inside the Marmot or just lay the Marmot on top of the Iroquois. I've slept in a bivy sack
under the stars (no clouds) and been warm down to 0*F with this system. In the Stephenson I'd be
very warm. The problem with this combination is that it's heavy. The sleeping bags combine to weigh
about 4.25 pounds. I'll be replacing the Marmot with a Nunatak <www.nunatakgear.com> Back Country
Blanket. If the temperatures at night are going to be in the 20*F range INSIDE my tent (that means
around 5*F outside) then I might just take the Iroquois with something to toss over it and make sure
I sleep with the VB shirt on, snugged down tight into long john bottoms.

Sleeping pad:
     A long therm-a-rest LE or a Ridge Rest Deluxe sometimes with a Ultralite 3/4 length thermarest.
I've never tried mixing the Ridge Rest with my 6 or 8 section z-rest.

Clothing:
Torso (base out): Stephenson VB shirt, Patagonia R1 vest or perhaps
    pullover, Paramo Mountain Shirt <www.paramo.co.uk>, shell layer which
    could be Frogg Toggs or in combination a MEC Ferrata Jacket and poncho.
    The latter is more useful since I can use the poncho to block wind, act
    as an emergency shelter, and so on (I can cinch it tight with a belt).
    I've wondered around town with this torso combination in near 0*F
    weather and been comfortable. The key is to have the VB shirt snug
    against the skin. This shirt is not, contrary to common belief, clammy.
    If you find yourself overheating you can easily vent with this system.
    Sleeping with the VB shirt on will add a good 15-20*F warmth if it is
    snug when you sleep. If I'm getting cold and need more insulation I can
    put on a down vest or jacket (though I don't generally take the jacket).
    I'd not mind owning a Patagonia pullover Puffball, but it isn't really
    needed.

Legs: long john bottoms and MEC Ferrata pants. If it is going to be
    windy and wet I toss on a pair of Moonbow Gear <www.moonbowgear.com>
    rain chaps too.

Head, Hands, Feet: Good wool socks (2 pair). I might carry a third pair
    for extra safety. Vapor barrier socks (worn as a liner) that help keep
    the feet warm and the wool dry. I've yet to find mittens and gloves that
    I like. My hands either get too cold or overheat and get sweaty.
    Blocking the wind is important here. I'll find something I like in time.
    My big problem is that I become funble-fingers in a big way when even
    wearing gloves. For my head I take a hat with ear wamrer flaps. I tend
    to find a balaclava while very warm is often too much for me. It is just
    heavy. I do take one, but I'm not sure I'll continue to do so. I also
    take either a wool scarf (very versatile) or neck gator.

Misc: A capilene t-shirt or long john top for possible sleep use.
    underwear. Down booties for in-camp use and to wear when sleeping to
    keep my feet nice and warm. If they stay warm I sleep much warmer than
    if they do not.

Boots: My normal hiking shoes which are these days usually Salomon Raid
    Winds. NEOS Explorer overboots <www.overshoe.com>. This has kept my feet
    warm when walking in snow down to around 0*F. I've not goine colder than
    that because it hasn't been when walking around. I may one day decide to
    get a pair of pac boots like Sorel, but I've not done it yet. When in
    camp the Solaman are replaced by my down booties and I just slip the
    NEOS over those.

Cooking/Water:
    My kitchen reamins about the same as usual except I take a 1.3L (or 2L) pot to melt snow in and
use a Primus canister stove. I also bring a foam pad and peice of heavy duty foil to put the stove
on to insulate it from the ground. I'll take an insulated mug or my little titantium mug with a mug
cozy. If you warm the metal up it is fine to drink from. I still prefer a metal spoon to lexan.
It'll always be warm since hot food is on it so that isn't a concern.
    I don't bother with a water filter. It'd freeze before it could be used effetively. I bring
tablets, but in gneral boil water (melt snow then boil if need be). This means I plan on using more
fuel.
    I carry water in a quary Nalgene bottle that is held in an Outdoor Research water parka for
insulation. I don't usually carry extra water in my pack, but if I did it would go in the depths of
the pack and start out as hot water. I do carry 2 Nalgene bottles though. Wide mouth bottles are the
best choice. The wide mouth will retard freezing. The hard plastic clear ones are better because
they don't deform as much as the softer platic ones when you fill them with boiling water which then
cools off. But, either works. 

Food:
    What I usually would carry, but more of it. If I am going to take meats for sandwhichs I slice
them ahead of time. The same is true for bagels. I don't want to mess with a pocket knife with cold
fingers. Sometimes I will take my BakePacker and make really tasty meals if I'm willing to wait the
extra time those take, but usually simple one-pot meals are enough for me. Spaghetti and meat balls
, potato leak soup, corn chowder with potatos, rice based meals, oatmeal, and hot drink mix like tea
or sometimes coffee. I DO NOT take snickers bars. They get too hard in the winter. Reeces PB cups
seem to work and things like Oreos or brownies also seem to work well if you're willing to carry
them.

Misc:
    I would still bring my basic camera stuff and my Newton and keyboard. The Newton and kebyarod
would be in the backpack while the camera gear would generally be in a pouch on my shoulder. All put
together this stuff weighs about 4 pounds. But, only half of that is actually in the backpack.
    naturally I would have my hiking poles and depending on the amount of snow/ice I was expecting I
would either take snowshoes or a pair of stabilicers <www.stabilicer.com>.

The big difference in my list and others is in the clothing choices. I am a fan of vapor barrier
(VB) stuff. When used as it's meant to be used it is fantastic. 

The major extra items in this list aaare the kitchen related stuff and my sleeping system. Clothing
is heavier too, but during the day you generally are wearing that so it isn't as big of a deal to
me. If I expect night time temperatures to be consistently above 10*F I'd change my sleep system to
a much lighter one. The combination sleeping bags and long puffy therm-a-rest weighs about 6.5
pounds. Knock out the Marmot bag and change sleeping bags and I save quite a bit of weight here.

What I've described, for the coldest weather, probably works out to a base pack weight of around 25
pounds (including the camera pouch). Add several days of food, a fuel canister, an average 1 liter
of water, and the inevitble add on here and there and the total pack weight is going to be around 35
pounds at the start of a 5 or so night trip. This is substantially more than I'd carry on a 3-season
trip. On that type of trip the base weight of the pack is a good ten pounds less for a comparable
trip.

  ** Ken **

On 12/18/00 at 12:45 PM, DaRedhead@aol.com wrote:

> Okay - you winter hiker experts (and elves) out there, instead of me posting a gear/clothing list 
> and you picking it apart - how about you give ME the list of what you would carry for a winter 
> smokies trip, 2 people, 4 days . . . :-)
> 
> (and any really good food/cold weather/one pot meal ideas would be nice, too . . . )

**  Kenneth Knight    Web Design, IT Consultant, Software Engineer  **
**       krk@speakeasy.org        http://www.speakeasy.org/~krk     **
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To:            "richard mann" <hike-usa@email.msn.com>, "at-lll" <at-l@backcountry.net>